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Higgs Bsons back in the lime light!

tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/2/2012 12:56:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, it's been about 2 months or so since the last "we almost found it but not really" press release, so we are just abut due! And so here is our latest:

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

http://www.foxnews.com...

If you missed these, don't you worry because there should be some more by Sept. or October!

Any thoughts?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/2/2012 2:20:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:57:45 PM, Wnope wrote:
I've always considered those scientists to be doing the equivalent of looking into a vacuum and yelling "MARCO!"

Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this...I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running, we've gotten press releases from them every 2 to 3 months about how they almost but really didn't find the Higgs!

Regardless, I know that there will be tons of stuff we'll learn from CERN! Just think they're barking up the wrong tree, that's all.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Thaumaturgy
Posts: 166
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7/2/2012 8:39:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 2:20:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:

Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this...I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running, we've gotten press releases from them every 2 to 3 months about how they almost but really didn't find the Higgs!

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but you do realize, I hope, that the Fermilab Tevatron has been CLOSED DOWN now, right? So in your rush to judge them I hope you realize a couple key points:

1. The Tevatron is NOT the LHC (different continents altogether)
2. The Tevatron has produced sufficient data to keep many employed for years studying the results
3. The Tevatron closed in Sept of 2011

Regardless, I know that there will be tons of stuff we'll learn from CERN! Just think they're barking up the wrong tree, that's all.

Why's that?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/3/2012 10:01:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 8:39:54 PM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:20:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this...I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running, we've gotten press releases from them every 2 to 3 months about how they almost but really didn't find the Higgs!
Not to rain on your parade or anything, but you do realize, I hope, that the Fermilab Tevatron has been CLOSED DOWN now, right? So in your rush to judge them I hope you realize a couple key points:

1. The Tevatron is NOT the LHC (different continents altogether)
Hence the name: Organisation européenne pour la recherche nucléaire. Thanks Captain Obvious!

2. The Tevatron has produced sufficient data to keep many employed for years studying the results.
Hence the articles heading: "Squeezing the last bit of information out of 500 trillion collisions produced by the Tevatron for each experiment since March 2001." Nothing gets by you!

3. The Tevatron closed in Sept of 2011.
Also in the article: "Only high-energy particle colliders such as the Tevatron, which was shut down in September 2011, and the Large Hadron Collider, which produced its first collisions in November 2009, have the chance to produce the Higgs particle." Once again, you bring light to a sunny day!

Regardless, I know that there will be tons of stuff we'll learn from CERN! Just think they're barking up the wrong tree, that's all.
Why's that?
I dunno, perhaps I think that the Higgs Model might be wrong? But then that's obvious and so you should have know it!?!?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Thaumaturgy
Posts: 166
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7/3/2012 4:03:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 10:01:25 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/2/2012 8:39:54 PM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:20:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this...I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running, we've gotten press releases from them every 2 to 3 months about how they almost but really didn't find the Higgs!
Not to rain on your parade or anything, but you do realize, I hope, that the Fermilab Tevatron has been CLOSED DOWN now, right? So in your rush to judge them I hope you realize a couple key points:

1. The Tevatron is NOT the LHC (different continents altogether)
Hence the name: Organisation européenne pour la recherche nucléaire. Thanks Captain Obvious!

Just thought from your continued reference to things like this:

I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running

that you were only referring to the LHC but indeed the Tevatron was mentioned in great detail in the first link you provided. So I'm curious why you seemed so 'sloppy' about this as if CERN = Fermilab.

Just wanted to point out that you needn't worry about

Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this

When in fact the U.S. has shut theirs down so we effectively handed someone else the torch. We are getting out of the biz.

I dunno, perhaps I think that the Higgs Model might be wrong? But then that's obvious and so you should have know it!?!?

So you think the Higgs model might be wrong but you laugh at people who investigate it?

Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this

That's interesting. Should they be like you and just armchair quarterback it?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/3/2012 5:29:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/3/2012 4:03:53 PM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/3/2012 10:01:25 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/2/2012 8:39:54 PM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:20:06 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this...I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running, we've gotten press releases from them every 2 to 3 months about how they almost but really didn't find the Higgs!
Not to rain on your parade or anything, but you do realize, I hope, that the Fermilab Tevatron has been CLOSED DOWN now, right? So in your rush to judge them I hope you realize a couple key points:

1. The Tevatron is NOT the LHC (different continents altogether)
Hence the name: Organisation européenne pour la recherche nucléaire. Thanks Captain Obvious!

Just thought from your continued reference to things like this:

I just find it so funny that ever since it's been up and running

that you were only referring to the LHC but indeed the Tevatron was mentioned in great detail in the first link you provided. So I'm curious why you seemed so 'sloppy' about this as if CERN = Fermilab.
I see no confusion here nor do I have the faintest curiosity as what you find sloppy or neat.

Just wanted to point out that you needn't worry about

Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this

When in fact the U.S. has shut theirs down so we effectively handed someone else the torch. We are getting out of the biz.
And that changes what I said, exactly how?

I dunno, perhaps I think that the Higgs Model might be wrong? But then that's obvious and so you should have know it!?!?
So you think the Higgs model might be wrong but you laugh at people who investigate it?
Yes! I think it's funny that they keep on headlining "nothing." All I'm saying is that they should probably say something when they actually FIND something. I see that you also lack a sense of humor.

Lol! I understand that they need to justify the BILLIONS that they spent on this
That's interesting. Should they be like you and just armchair quarterback it?
Can you explain HOW exactly I am "armchair quarterback it"? However, better to be a Monday Morning Quarterback than a condescending pr1ck!

Regardless: if the Higgs is found, then I will have to rethink my position and come to grips with the implications.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/5/2012 4:00:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/4/2012 2:03:09 PM, seraine wrote:
http://now.msn.com...?

Slow down, chief: http://www.sciencedaily.com......

"The next step will be to determine the precise nature of the particle and its significance for our understanding of the universe. Are its properties as expected for the long-sought Higgs boson, the final missing ingredient in the Standard Model of particle physics? Or is it something more exotic?"

Seems like there's more work to do before we know for sure!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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7/7/2012 5:17:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/5/2012 4:00:16 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/4/2012 2:03:09 PM, seraine wrote:
http://now.msn.com...?

Slow down, chief: http://www.sciencedaily.com......

"The next step will be to determine the precise nature of the particle and its significance for our understanding of the universe. Are its properties as expected for the long-sought Higgs boson, the final missing ingredient in the Standard Model of particle physics? Or is it something more exotic?"

Seems like there's more work to do before we know for sure!

Yeah, there's much more work to be done, and much more funding to be had.

If it has anomalies it will be very exciting, it will launch renewed public interest in physics which will result in a magnificent era of new research and discovery, along with a magnificent era of public support and the associated funding of careers in physics.

I'm betting it will have anomalies.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
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7/7/2012 5:40:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
By the way, I'm not trying to be cynical here, just practicsa.

There were over ten thousand working physicists involved in this discovery, families, mortgages, and careers are at stake. They don't really have the option of saying, "OK, we found it, we're done now", and they aren't done by any stretch of the imagination.

A big part of a science degree involves learning how to present complex findings to the general public in layman's terms, and grant writing and obtaining funding for your research is a major part of the curriculum for any advanced science degree. This is a very exciting discovery and it really will lead to a boatload of new research and discovery.

And one thing these physicists are not, is stupid, in this economy especially, they will know how to present these finding to the public.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
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7/7/2012 5:51:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Unfortunately, those nitwit String and M-theorist pseudoscientists learned it well when they got their degrees too.

Consequently, in the world of physics they take a lions share of the available funding away from real science.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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7/7/2012 2:41:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The data showing the existence of the Higgs Boson is a peak in energy above the background noise. There is some chance that the peak is a result of statistical fluctuation in the noise. However, the probability of that is greater than six-sigma (less than one in a million). Even more convincing, the peak shows up in two independent experiments. It's really a done deal, but scientists are obliged to cite the remote possibility it was an unlucky pea from noise.

What enabled the detection was an increase in the beam current in the LHC. More current means more chances to detect improbable events. They still haven't gotten the machine up to its rated energy levels. At full energy, the Higgs should be easy to verify.

Nobel physicist Steven Weinberg said that he thinks he use of the LHC to explore the nature of dark matter is more important than the Higgs Boson work. The Higgs was so well predicted tat it would have be startling if it wasn't detected, but it was fully expected.

However, dark matter is about five-sixth of the mass of the universe and no one knows for sure what it is. The LHC will probably be able to make dark matter. it will not be able to be detected directly, but created particles will annihilate each other other, producing detectable products. The reason all the dark matter has not annihilated itself in the universe is that the particles are so far apart they almost never collide.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/7/2012 3:29:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/7/2012 2:41:51 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The data showing the existence of the Higgs Boson is a peak in energy above the background noise. There is some chance that the peak is a result of statistical fluctuation in the noise. However, the probability of that is greater than six-sigma (less than one in a million). Even more convincing, the peak shows up in two independent experiments. It's really a done deal, but scientists are obliged to cite the remote possibility it was an unlucky pea from noise.

What enabled the detection was an increase in the beam current in the LHC. More current means more chances to detect improbable events. They still haven't gotten the machine up to its rated energy levels. At full energy, the Higgs should be easy to verify.

Nobel physicist Steven Weinberg said that he thinks he use of the LHC to explore the nature of dark matter is more important than the Higgs Boson work. The Higgs was so well predicted tat it would have be startling if it wasn't detected, but it was fully expected.

However, dark matter is about five-sixth of the mass of the universe and no one knows for sure what it is. The LHC will probably be able to make dark matter. it will not be able to be detected directly, but created particles will annihilate each other other, producing detectable products. The reason all the dark matter has not annihilated itself in the universe is that the particles are so far apart they almost never collide.

What source do you have for the six-sigma accuracy? All the reports I have looked at, including the one in the OP, only suggest a 3 sigma (1 in 550).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/9/2012 9:12:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/7/2012 3:29:30 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/7/2012 2:41:51 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The data showing the existence of the Higgs Boson is a peak in energy above the background noise. There is some chance that the peak is a result of statistical fluctuation in the noise. However, the probability of that is greater than six-sigma (less than one in a million). Even more convincing, the peak shows up in two independent experiments. It's really a done deal, but scientists are obliged to cite the remote possibility it was an unlucky pea from noise.

What enabled the detection was an increase in the beam current in the LHC. More current means more chances to detect improbable events. They still haven't gotten the machine up to its rated energy levels. At full energy, the Higgs should be easy to verify.

Nobel physicist Steven Weinberg said that he thinks he use of the LHC to explore the nature of dark matter is more important than the Higgs Boson work. The Higgs was so well predicted tat it would have be startling if it wasn't detected, but it was fully expected.

However, dark matter is about five-sixth of the mass of the universe and no one knows for sure what it is. The LHC will probably be able to make dark matter. it will not be able to be detected directly, but created particles will annihilate each other other, producing detectable products. The reason all the dark matter has not annihilated itself in the universe is that the particles are so far apart they almost never collide.

What source do you have for the six-sigma accuracy? All the reports I have looked at, including the one in the OP, only suggest a 3 sigma (1 in 550).

Ditto, 2.9 Sigma: http://www.sciencedaily.com...
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.