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A reminder to the creationists!

Microsuck
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7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
LOL!

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove evolution!
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Ore_Ele
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7/7/2012 4:38:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM, Microsuck wrote:
LOL!

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove creationism!

fixed
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Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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7/7/2012 4:41:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Microsuck, you can't always dilly dally around the circle of creationists.

There are far more intellectually vigorous circles and positions to contend that, in the moment of collision, may produce greater changes. ;)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
baggins
Posts: 855
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7/7/2012 9:09:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM, Microsuck wrote:
LOL!

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove evolution!

As far as evolution as a scientific subject is concerned, then the burden of proof is shared by default. In fact, it is the task of both 'evolutionist' and 'creationist' to both prove and disprove evolution.

I haven't seen the video.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Thaumaturgy
Posts: 166
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7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. If there are some atheists out there who rely on evolution to justify their lack of belief it doesn't affect the original point against creationists.

Creationism is wholly 100% religion. Evolution has no need either way for religion (and in fact many, many evolution-believing people are religious), so to introduce a religious vector is meaningless to the evolution side.

Creationism cannot stand without religion, evolution can stand with or without religion.

In that respect it is a superior hypothesis in that it is not contingent upon unrelated concepts to bolster it.
Microsuck
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7/8/2012 9:29:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. If there are some atheists out there who rely on evolution to justify their lack of belief it doesn't affect the original point against creationists.

Creationism is wholly 100% religion. Evolution has no need either way for religion (and in fact many, many evolution-believing people are religious), so to introduce a religious vector is meaningless to the evolution side.

Creationism cannot stand without religion, evolution can stand with or without religion.

In that respect it is a superior hypothesis in that it is not contingent upon unrelated concepts to bolster it.

^This^

Science cannot disprove (or prove) God's existence. Therefore, science MUST recognize its limitations and not attempt to prove or disprove God's existence.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Thaumaturgy
Posts: 166
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7/8/2012 9:45:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 9:29:41 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. If there are some atheists out there who rely on evolution to justify their lack of belief it doesn't affect the original point against creationists.

Creationism is wholly 100% religion. Evolution has no need either way for religion (and in fact many, many evolution-believing people are religious), so to introduce a religious vector is meaningless to the evolution side.

Creationism cannot stand without religion, evolution can stand with or without religion.

In that respect it is a superior hypothesis in that it is not contingent upon unrelated concepts to bolster it.

^This^

Science cannot disprove (or prove) God's existence. Therefore, science MUST recognize its limitations and not attempt to prove or disprove God's existence.

One can never prove a universal negative, so it is up to the believers in God to provide sufficient evidence that God exists. Since there are countless versions of gods and God, it is reasonable to assume that with millenia of effort the people of faith ahve suffiently fulfilled this task since no single concept of god sufficient to indicate a single idea has hence crystallized.

Science is not limited by this except insofar as science is limited to only logical propositions and limits of inference.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/8/2012 2:47:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. If there are some atheists out there who rely on evolution to justify their lack of belief it doesn't affect the original point against creationists.

Creationism is wholly 100% religion. Evolution has no need either way for religion (and in fact many, many evolution-believing people are religious), so to introduce a religious vector is meaningless to the evolution side.

Creationism cannot stand without religion, evolution can stand with or without religion.

In that respect it is a superior hypothesis in that it is not contingent upon unrelated concepts to bolster it.

Evolution is not neccessary for atheism, and neither does it in the least bit prove it, as there are many theistic evolutionists (myself for one). However, if evolution were falsified, atheists would have very little ammo in refuting certain arguments for God, such as the design argument, and even weaker arguments such as why we even exist. Just the evenly poportionated ways of the world and our being would be much much harder to account for in an atheist world without evolution. Evolution obviously does not prove atheism, but it sure helps justifying lack of belief in God.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
baggins
Posts: 855
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7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism...

Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution. It is closely related to atheism. It was welcomed immediately by all atheistic ideologies including communism. It also gave European colonizers an excuse that they were more evolved than other races (a justification which they never got from Christianity). Struggle for survival was also used as an excuse by Nazis to kill Jews, Polish Christians and handicapped people to create more living space for evolution of Aryans.

I am not an expert who can judge the truth of evolution. It does necessarily contradicts my religion either. However its bloody history is the prime reason I suspect it.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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7/9/2012 12:22:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM, Microsuck wrote:

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove evolution!

Dude, Bible's the ultimate proof.

http://www.myfacewhen.com...

Herp derp.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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7/9/2012 12:22:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism...

Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution. It is closely related to atheism. It was welcomed immediately by all atheistic ideologies including communism. It also gave European colonizers an excuse that they were more evolved than other races (a justification which they never got from Christianity). Struggle for survival was also used as an excuse by Nazis to kill Jews, Polish Christians and handicapped people to create more living space for evolution of Aryans.

I am not an expert who can judge the truth of evolution. It does necessarily contradicts my religion either. However its bloody history is the prime reason I suspect it.

Ah, yes, damn good thing those European colonizers started work in the late 1870s, which was when the idea was just starting the gain steam.

Also, thank God (and his missionaries) that Europeans had no other means of claiming superiority/culturally overpowering/enslaving civilizations they encountered before that time.
baggins
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7/9/2012 12:29:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 12:22:22 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism...

Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution. It is closely related to atheism. It was welcomed immediately by all atheistic ideologies including communism. It also gave European colonizers an excuse that they were more evolved than other races (a justification which they never got from Christianity). Struggle for survival was also used as an excuse by Nazis to kill Jews, Polish Christians and handicapped people to create more living space for evolution of Aryans.

I am not an expert who can judge the truth of evolution. It does necessarily contradicts my religion either. However its bloody history is the prime reason I suspect it.

Ah, yes, damn good thing those European colonizers started work in the late 1870s, which was when the idea was just starting the gain steam.

Also, thank God (and his missionaries) that Europeans had no other means of claiming superiority/culturally overpowering/enslaving civilizations they encountered before that time.

Colonialism did not start with evolution. In fact even Christianity was abused by colonizers to justify there action. On other hand, the imperialist racists welcomed and used evolution immediately. This is the reason, evolution was accepted so fast by the scientific world.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/9/2012 5:39:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 9:45:19 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/8/2012 9:29:41 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. If there are some atheists out there who rely on evolution to justify their lack of belief it doesn't affect the original point against creationists.

Creationism is wholly 100% religion. Evolution has no need either way for religion (and in fact many, many evolution-believing people are religious), so to introduce a religious vector is meaningless to the evolution side.

Creationism cannot stand without religion, evolution can stand with or without religion.

In that respect it is a superior hypothesis in that it is not contingent upon unrelated concepts to bolster it.

^This^

Science cannot disprove (or prove) God's existence. Therefore, science MUST recognize its limitations and not attempt to prove or disprove God's existence.

One can never prove a universal negative, so it is up to the believers in God to provide sufficient evidence that God exists.

http://departments.bloomu.edu...
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/9/2012 5:41:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism...

Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution. It is closely related to atheism.

Association fallacy
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Thaumaturgy
Posts: 166
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7/9/2012 7:56:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution.

So if I find one Christian who killed another person unjustly can I then claim Christianity is dedicated to murder?

It is closely related to atheism. It was welcomed immediately by all atheistic ideologies including communism. It also gave European colonizers an excuse that they were more evolved than other races (a justification which they never got from Christianity). Struggle for survival was also used as an excuse by Nazis to kill Jews, Polish Christians and handicapped people to create more living space for evolution of Aryans.

Might I point out that antisemitic pogroms were a part of medieval Europe as well? The antisemitic screeds of Martin Luther also speak to a broader religious motivation to antisemitism the predated evolution by centuries.

I am not an expert who can judge the truth of evolution. It does necessarily contradicts my religion either. However its bloody history is the prime reason I suspect it.

If you want bloody history look no futher than Christianity ( and other religions as well). Crusades, witchhunts, pogroms, all centuries before evolution, and all explicitly related to the faith.

I assume by your own criteria you "suspect" religious faith as well?
baggins
Posts: 855
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7/10/2012 12:59:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 5:41:08 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
At 7/8/2012 8:52:26 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/7/2012 8:47:40 PM, phantom wrote:
I can't view the vid but if evolution were falsified, atheists would have a much much harder time justifying their views.

Not that I disagree with evolution.

But evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism...

Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution. It is closely related to atheism.

Association fallacy

I did not say evolution is wrong because it is related to atheism. The truth or lie of evolution has to be examined through science. All that I said is, there history is related. This is not an association fallacy.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
baggins
Posts: 855
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7/10/2012 1:02:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 7:56:03 AM, Thaumaturgy wrote:
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
Wrong. If you study history of theory of evolution.

So if I find one Christian who killed another person unjustly can I then claim Christianity is dedicated to murder?

It is closely related to atheism. It was welcomed immediately by all atheistic ideologies including communism. It also gave European colonizers an excuse that they were more evolved than other races (a justification which they never got from Christianity). Struggle for survival was also used as an excuse by Nazis to kill Jews, Polish Christians and handicapped people to create more living space for evolution of Aryans.

Might I point out that antisemitic pogroms were a part of medieval Europe as well? The antisemitic screeds of Martin Luther also speak to a broader religious motivation to antisemitism the predated evolution by centuries.


I am not an expert who can judge the truth of evolution. It does necessarily contradicts my religion either. However its bloody history is the prime reason I suspect it.

If you want bloody history look no futher than Christianity ( and other religions as well). Crusades, witchhunts, pogroms, all centuries before evolution, and all explicitly related to the faith.

I assume by your own criteria you "suspect" religious faith as well?

There is little doubt that there is problem in history of many religions, which reflects poorly on followers of the religion.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/10/2012 3:39:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/8/2012 2:47:10 PM, phantom wrote:
Evolution is not neccessary for atheism, and neither does it in the least bit prove it, as there are many theistic evolutionists (myself for one). However, if evolution were falsified, atheists would have very little ammo in refuting certain arguments for God, such as the design argument, and even weaker arguments such as why we even exist. Just the evenly poportionated ways of the world and our being would be much much harder to account for in an atheist world without evolution. Evolution obviously does not prove atheism, but it sure helps justifying lack of belief in God.

meh. evolution doesn't help the atheist explain why there is something rather than nothing, and that seems like a much more fundamental problem than why the earth is arranged in the way it is. but the theist doesn't have a much easier time of things, because they still have to deal with the question of why god... it seems like an equally sticky question. in similar fashion supporters of the panspermia argument claim life came to earth from elsewhere... but still have to explain how it originated wherever "elsewhere" happens to be. you're just pushing the problem back a step. i can see why evolution might make atheism seem more appealing on its face, but if you think about it deeply, theres no good reason why it should. if the falsification of evolution makes things harder for atheists it will be because theists will demand answers to questions that we won't be able to provide, and they will use this ignorance as evidence for their side... it would be a rhetorical victory, not an actual one.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Kinesis
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7/10/2012 4:08:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 12:18:12 AM, baggins wrote:
I am not an expert who can judge the truth of evolution. It does necessarily contradicts my religion either. However its bloody history is the prime reason I suspect it.

I don't think you need to be. The fact that there is an overwhelming consensus among experts that evolution is true is strong evidence that there is strong evidence for the truth of evolution. So, you can conclude that evolution is probably true based on that fact alone.
Thaumaturgy
Posts: 166
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7/10/2012 6:55:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 1:02:30 AM, baggins wrote:
There is little doubt that there is problem in history of many religions, which reflects poorly on followers of the religion.

but therein lies the problem with associating any given problem with a specific unrelated philosophy.

Evolution is a scientific concept free of any sort of moral component. So one cannot say there is a relationship between atheism which pre existed evolutionary theory, and evolutionary theory.

If it provided any succor to atheists it was only insofar as it proved that special creation of each individual kind or species or qhatever is likely flawed. Which is only an issue for strict fundamentalist literalist religious folks who make up only a tiny fraction of people of faith.

As has been pointed out here, many many people of faith are ok with evolution. Looooong before I became an atheist I was a believer who had no problem with evolution.

So if a direct relationship exists as any sort of significant correlation, then it would appear the correlation is greatly broken.

It would be akin to saying that since god doesn't strike people down anymore like he did Onan, that atheism is bolsterd by masturbation.
Sower4GS
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5/31/2013 5:48:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM, Microsuck wrote:
LOL!

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove evolution!

What? Could you please speak Hebrew!?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/1/2013 5:22:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/8/2012 9:29:41 AM, Microsuck wrote:

Science cannot disprove (or prove) God's existence.

Prove it.
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AlbinoBunny
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6/1/2013 5:23:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/31/2013 5:48:03 PM, Sower4GS wrote:
At 7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM, Microsuck wrote:
LOL!

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove evolution!

What? Could you please speak Hebrew!?

What? Could you please get us a brew?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Sower4GS
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6/1/2013 5:54:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is Manischewitz ok? Here I'll just shove it through cyberspace......hang on....

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v3nesl
Posts: 4,463
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6/6/2013 2:56:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2012 3:34:04 PM, Microsuck wrote:
LOL!

A reminder to ALL Creationists: YOU HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO PROVE CREATIONISM! Just because you may DISPROVE evolution, it would still not prove evolution!

There is no court of law here, nobody has any burden of anything. Some people want to know how they got here, that's all.
This space for rent.