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Gays in animals

16kadams
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7/11/2012 10:25:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Are gay genes in flies and mice enough to conclude one is born gay?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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7/11/2012 10:26:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
New title: HOMOSEXUALITY IN ANIMALS
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 10:30:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:25:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Are gay genes in flies and mice enough to conclude one is born gay?

Choose to be sexually attracted to members of the same sex. Right now.

Ready? Go!
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/11/2012 10:30:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, there is no such thing is a "gay gene".

There are several genes that, when taken in conjunction, help with sex drive and attraction. A mutation in these genes combined with environmental factors probably causes homosexuality. This doesn't mean that homosexuality is not genetic, however. There is no one gene for eye color; rather, there are about 18 genes that contribute, and eye color is wholly genetic.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/11/2012 10:36:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:30:58 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Also, there is no such thing is a "gay gene".

There are several genes that, when taken in conjunction, help with sex drive and attraction. A mutation in these genes combined with environmental factors probably causes homosexuality. This doesn't mean that homosexuality is not genetic, however. There is no one gene for eye color; rather, there are about 18 genes that contribute, and eye color is wholly genetic.

Probably this.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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7/11/2012 10:55:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:29:05 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Homosexuality is found in 1500 species.

Yes, but many of those species have no discovered gene in them and it's likely enviromental or other irrational acts.

Mice and fruit flies, with gene deletion, can be made bisexual though.

My question is: is that enough to argue homosexuality is mainly genetic?

I have no clue, but based on recent evidence I disagree. Though it is possible some genetic factor exists. We need studies like those on flies moved onto humans now. Well before I make a solid opinion anyway
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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7/11/2012 10:56:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:30:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 10:25:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Are gay genes in flies and mice enough to conclude one is born gay?

Choose to be sexually attracted to members of the same sex. Right now.

Ready? Go!

It's not a choice, the truth is probably enviromental factors mixed with smaller generic ones. Both not a choice.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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7/11/2012 10:56:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:30:58 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Also, there is no such thing is a "gay gene".

There are several genes that, when taken in conjunction, help with sex drive and attraction. A mutation in these genes combined with environmental factors probably causes homosexuality. This doesn't mean that homosexuality is not genetic, however. There is no one gene for eye color; rather, there are about 18 genes that contribute, and eye color is wholly genetic.

OMG we agree for once
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
drafterman
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7/11/2012 11:05:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:56:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/11/2012 10:30:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 10:25:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Are gay genes in flies and mice enough to conclude one is born gay?

Choose to be sexually attracted to members of the same sex. Right now.

Ready? Go!

It's not a choice, the truth is probably enviromental factors mixed with smaller generic ones. Both not a choice.

Well then. Carry on.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/11/2012 11:08:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sexuality of others in general is something that conservatives are, eh, passionate about.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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7/11/2012 11:10:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who cares?

If it's not genetic, the anti-gay marriage people will argue that it is not natural and hence should not be recognized.

If it's genetic, the anti-gay marriage people will argue that it is simply a gene mutation that is not beneficial to the human race.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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7/11/2012 11:16:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:08:11 AM, Contra wrote:
Sexuality of others in general is something that conservatives are, eh, passionate about.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/11/2012 11:25:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:08:11 AM, Contra wrote:
Sexuality of others in general is something that conservatives are, eh, passionate about.

Dammit Turing, I don't care if you invented the computer and won us world war 2! We're going to castrate you because you're a dirty homo.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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7/11/2012 11:42:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:25:25 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/11/2012 11:08:11 AM, Contra wrote:
Sexuality of others in general is something that conservatives are, eh, passionate about.

Dammit Turing, I don't care if you invented the computer and won us world war 2! We're going to castrate you because you're a dirty homo.

You can't bring that up in a predominantly American forum. Interesting thing is most people I know have never heard of the guy. Is he bigger in the UK?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/11/2012 12:11:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:42:24 AM, socialpinko wrote:
You can't bring that up in a predominantly American forum. Interesting thing is most people I know have never heard of the guy. Is he bigger in the UK?

Yeah, because we were the ones who threatened to imprison him. Gordon Brown issued an apology about it a while back.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 12:23:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Gays in animals"...is this abut bestiality?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/11/2012 4:24:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 12:23:43 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
"Gays in animals"...is this abut bestiality?

I was waiting for this comment

Also on Turing, he's very well known to anyone interested in science of philopby of mind here at the very least. Turing test and all that... I was surprised to see a comment to the effect that people probably haven't heard of him
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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7/11/2012 4:39:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:30:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 10:25:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Are gay genes in flies and mice enough to conclude one is born gay?

Choose to be sexually attracted to members of the same sex. Right now.

Ready? Go!

I don't understand this. I can't choose to like peanut butter but does that mean I was born that way? I used to love peanut butter.
yang.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 4:39:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:24:52 PM, belle wrote:
At 7/11/2012 12:23:43 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
"Gays in animals"...is this abut bestiality?

I was waiting for this comment

Also on Turing, he's very well known to anyone interested in science of philopby of mind here at the very least. Turing test and all that... I was surprised to see a comment to the effect that people probably haven't heard of him
Anyone that studied computer sci should know him, but what does he have to do with any of this...I mean apart from being a poof.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/11/2012 5:05:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:39:57 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Anyone that studied computer sci should know him, but what does he have to do with any of this...I mean apart from being a poof.

Sorry, I randomly read an article on his a few days ago and thought it was vaguely relevant. It doesn't have much to do with the topic.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/11/2012 5:29:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:05:46 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:39:57 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Anyone that studied computer sci should know him, but what does he have to do with any of this...I mean apart from being a poof.

Sorry, I randomly read an article on his a few days ago and thought it was vaguely relevant. It doesn't have much to do with the topic.

No need to apologize. I posted in response to Belle, not really you. She said:
"Also on Turing, he's very well known to anyone interested in science of philopby of mind here at the very least. Turing test and all that... I was surprised to see a comment to the effect that people probably haven't heard of him"
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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7/11/2012 5:49:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:29:12 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 7/11/2012 5:05:46 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:39:57 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Anyone that studied computer sci should know him, but what does he have to do with any of this...I mean apart from being a poof.

Sorry, I randomly read an article on his a few days ago and thought it was vaguely relevant. It doesn't have much to do with the topic.

No need to apologize. I posted in response to Belle, not really you. She said:
"Also on Turing, he's very well known to anyone interested in science of philopby of mind here at the very least. Turing test and all that... I was surprised to see a comment to the effect that people probably haven't heard of him"

lol sorry for the typos that's what I get for coming on DDO on my phone. There's been a pic floating around on reddit recently to the effect of that comment... I don't care that Turing did all this great stuff he's a dirty homosexual... Its in the public consciousness and such. I assumed that's what it was in reference to
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/11/2012 6:14:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:25:25 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 7/11/2012 11:08:11 AM, Contra wrote:
Sexuality of others in general is something that conservatives are, eh, passionate about.

Dammit Turing, I don't care if you invented the computer and won us world war 2! We're going to castrate you because you're a dirty homo.

It's not like I've ever studied him extensively or anything - like belle said, I've only come in contact with him through phil of mind and cognitive sciences, really - but I didn't know he was gay. Interesting.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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7/11/2012 6:19:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:55:11 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/11/2012 10:29:05 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Homosexuality is found in 1500 species.

Yes, but many of those species have no discovered gene in them and it's likely enviromental or other irrational acts.

I doubt we have tested for a gay gene in said 1500 species
Mice and fruit flies, with gene deletion, can be made bisexual though.

My question is: is that enough to argue homosexuality is mainly genetic?

I mean, it's a founded argument. You wouldn't have problems arguing that position. Evidence of genetic change/deletion in mice causing sexual orientation change can provide for a contention saying the same may be for humans, yet testing has not been done yet to confirm this.
I have no clue, but based on recent evidence I disagree. Though it is possible some genetic factor exists. We need studies like those on flies moved onto humans now. Well before I make a solid opinion anyway
turn down for h'what
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/11/2012 10:08:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:30:35 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 10:25:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Are gay genes in flies and mice enough to conclude one is born gay?

Choose to be sexually attracted to members of the same sex. Right now.

Ready? Go!

Let me drink 15 shots.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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7/11/2012 10:29:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's biological, but not directly genetic.

Remember, the main difference in the developmental process of a fetus that becomes a man versus a woman results from the hormonal flows resulting from having a Y chromosome versus not having one.

These same hormones are produced by the mother and influence the fetus in the womb environment. In men and women we see a difference in grey matter between men and women when it comes to a specific part of the brain linked to sexual attraction. These "sexual dimorphisms" lead to a larger counterpart in men than women. Homosexuals have brain mass in that area closer to women than men. Furthermore, the physical correlations we find with gays (like finger length ratios and hypothalamus size) are influenced by prenatal conditions.

The explanation even explains certain strange cases like identical twins raised almost identically where one turned out extraordinarily feminine and the other not. As differing birth-weights can attest to, identical twins experience difference prenatal environments (http://www.boston.com...)
Gileandos
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7/11/2012 10:31:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Some key studies showing that homosexuality is a result of toxins and pollutants, in animals and human cells. It is not natural to the genome but a deviation.

Homosexuality from mercury in the Ibises.
http://www.nature.com...

Homosexuality from fungus in Rabbits that humans eat consistently.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Homosexuality in frogs.
http://www.loe.org...
"Studies on rats, reptiles and even human cells exposed to atrazine showed similar results. "
The actual amphibian study below.
http://www.pnas.org...

EPA mercury effects.
http://www.epa.gov...

http://viewzone2.com...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/11/2012 10:39:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:29:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
It's biological, but not directly genetic.

Remember, the main difference in the developmental process of a fetus that becomes a man versus a woman results from the hormonal flows resulting from having a Y chromosome versus not having one.

Not entirely, if the hormone is cut off the "man" does not become a "woman," they basically become asexual. While they will be considered a girl because of a lack of testicles and penis, they also have a lack of ovaries (they'll just have inert gonads). They end up never going through puberty (never grow boobs, or a deep voice).


These same hormones are produced by the mother and influence the fetus in the womb environment. In men and women we see a difference in grey matter between men and women when it comes to a specific part of the brain linked to sexual attraction. These "sexual dimorphisms" lead to a larger counterpart in men than women. Homosexuals have brain mass in that area closer to women than men. Furthermore, the physical correlations we find with gays (like finger length ratios and hypothalamus size) are influenced by prenatal conditions.

The explanation even explains certain strange cases like identical twins raised almost identically where one turned out extraordinarily feminine and the other not. As differing birth-weights can attest to, identical twins experience difference prenatal environments (http://www.boston.com...)
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/11/2012 10:50:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 10:30:58 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Also, there is no such thing is a "gay gene".

There are several genes that, when taken in conjunction, help with sex drive and attraction. A mutation in these genes combined with environmental factors probably causes homosexuality. This doesn't mean that homosexuality is not genetic, however. There is no one gene for eye color; rather, there are about 18 genes that contribute, and eye color is wholly genetic.

Homosexuality has polygenic inheritance, or is it more an epigenetic function?
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
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