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Born that way?

tulle
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7/12/2012 8:51:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've seen people on both sides of the gay debate use arguments relating to whether or not people are born gay or with "gay genes". I fail to understand why it's relevant to either side. Why does it matter?
yang.
16kadams
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7/12/2012 8:55:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 8:51:43 AM, tulle wrote:
I've seen people on both sides of the gay debate use arguments relating to whether or not people are born gay or with "gay genes". I fail to understand why it's relevant to either side. Why does it matter?

If they are they have a valid argunment to be a legal minority under the civil rights act. If not it doesn't apply.
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
tulle
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7/12/2012 8:59:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 8:55:06 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 8:51:43 AM, tulle wrote:
I've seen people on both sides of the gay debate use arguments relating to whether or not people are born gay or with "gay genes". I fail to understand why it's relevant to either side. Why does it matter?

If they are they have a valid argunment to be a legal minority under the civil rights act. If not it doesn't apply.

I'm not familiar with this. What does "legal minority" status do?
yang.
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:03:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 8:59:53 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 8:55:06 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 8:51:43 AM, tulle wrote:
I've seen people on both sides of the gay debate use arguments relating to whether or not people are born gay or with "gay genes". I fail to understand why it's relevant to either side. Why does it matter?

If they are they have a valid argunment to be a legal minority under the civil rights act. If not it doesn't apply.

I'm not familiar with this. What does "legal minority" status do?

Makes them protected under the civil rights act. Being born that way is like race, it's genetic not environmentally acquired. That's why people like me use the mounds of evidence to disprove a gay gene and poke obvious holes into genetic studies.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:04:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:03:05 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 8:59:53 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 8:55:06 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 8:51:43 AM, tulle wrote:
I've seen people on both sides of the gay debate use arguments relating to whether or not people are born gay or with "gay genes". I fail to understand why it's relevant to either side. Why does it matter?

If they are they have a valid argunment to be a legal minority under the civil rights act. If not it doesn't apply.

I'm not familiar with this. What does "legal minority" status do?

Makes them protected under the civil rights act. Being born that way is like race, it's genetic not environmentally acquired. That's why people like me use the mounds of evidence to disprove a gay gene and poke obvious holes into genetic studies.

If you read part one it defines civil rights and minority status. Keep reading if you want to read one side of the argunment.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:07:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:05:08 AM, tulle wrote:
I just google'd it. Disabled people are covered under it and you don't have to be born that way.

It's because they fit the multiple definitions of civil protections. Read the link I provided.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
DetectableNinja
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7/12/2012 9:08:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There obviously is no one gay gene. Same sex attraction, and bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality/asexuality are all too complicated to fll to one gene.

That being said, no real definitive conclusion has been made on the cause. If genetics is the cause, it most definitely would be a combination of genes to cause it.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:10:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:05:08 AM, tulle wrote:
I just google'd it. Disabled people are covered under it and you don't have to be born that way.

That's a different law, disabilities act. Homosexuals are trying to hook onto other laws and use it as an umbrella (civil rights act). To do this they must be born that way. It would be ok if they made a serrated law like the disabled people did.

Totally different scenario.

http://www.rurdev.usda.gov...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:11:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:08:30 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
There obviously is no one gay gene. Same sex attraction, and bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality/asexuality are all too complicated to fll to one gene.

That being said, no real definitive conclusion has been made on the cause. If genetics is the cause, it most definitely would be a combination of genes to cause it.

My point exactly
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
tulle
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7/12/2012 9:12:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
16 I'm not familiar with the Civil Rights Act or what it does for anyone so you're still not making sense to me... I still don't see the relevance.
yang.
DetectableNinja
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7/12/2012 9:12:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:10:28 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:05:08 AM, tulle wrote:
I just google'd it. Disabled people are covered under it and you don't have to be born that way.

That's a different law, disabilities act. Homosexuals are trying to hook onto other laws and use it as an umbrella (civil rights act). To do this they must be born that way. It would be ok if they made a serrated law like the disabled people did.

Totally different scenario.

http://www.rurdev.usda.gov...

Well, some homosexuals.

Anyway--a separate law makes more sense. I think that the advocates for protection under Civil Rights Act are just poor strategists.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
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7/12/2012 9:12:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:11:13 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:08:30 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
There obviously is no one gay gene. Same sex attraction, and bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality/asexuality are all too complicated to fll to one gene.

That being said, no real definitive conclusion has been made on the cause. If genetics is the cause, it most definitely would be a combination of genes to cause it.

My point exactly

Then why do you feel like you can make a definitive conclusion about the cause, as well as the implications of it?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:15:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:12:50 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:11:13 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:08:30 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
There obviously is no one gay gene. Same sex attraction, and bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality/asexuality are all too complicated to fll to one gene.

That being said, no real definitive conclusion has been made on the cause. If genetics is the cause, it most definitely would be a combination of genes to cause it.

My point exactly

Then why do you feel like you can make a definitive conclusion about the cause, as well as the implications of it?

It's not a conclusion, it's a balance of evidence.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
tulle
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7/12/2012 9:15:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:12:04 AM, tulle wrote:
16 I'm not familiar with the Civil Rights Act or what it does for anyone so you're still not making sense to me... I still don't see the relevance.

Like, what does being recognized as a Civil Right do?
yang.
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:16:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:12:04 AM, tulle wrote:
16 I'm not familiar with the Civil Rights Act or what it does for anyone so you're still not making sense to me... I still don't see the relevance.

Basically:

Gays born that way = protection under [current] law
Not born that way = no protection under [current] law

If they are not born that way they must pass separate legislation.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
DetectableNinja
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7/12/2012 9:17:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:15:10 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:12:50 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:11:13 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:08:30 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
There obviously is no one gay gene. Same sex attraction, and bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality/asexuality are all too complicated to fll to one gene.

That being said, no real definitive conclusion has been made on the cause. If genetics is the cause, it most definitely would be a combination of genes to cause it.

My point exactly

Then why do you feel like you can make a definitive conclusion about the cause, as well as the implications of it?


It's not a conclusion, it's a balance of evidence.

You've concluded in many a thread that sexual orientation is DEFINITELY determined by environment, and it DEFINITELY can DEFINITELY be changed, and homosexuals should DEFINITELY have therapy.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:17:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:15:22 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:12:04 AM, tulle wrote:
16 I'm not familiar with the Civil Rights Act or what it does for anyone so you're still not making sense to me... I still don't see the relevance.

Like, what does being recognized as a Civil Right do?

Prevent discrimination
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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7/12/2012 9:18:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:17:02 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:15:10 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:12:50 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:11:13 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:08:30 AM, DetectableNinja wrote:
There obviously is no one gay gene. Same sex attraction, and bisexuality/homosexuality/pansexuality/asexuality are all too complicated to fll to one gene.

That being said, no real definitive conclusion has been made on the cause. If genetics is the cause, it most definitely would be a combination of genes to cause it.

My point exactly

Then why do you feel like you can make a definitive conclusion about the cause, as well as the implications of it?


It's not a conclusion, it's a balance of evidence.

You've concluded in many a thread that sexual orientation is DEFINITELY determined by environment, and it DEFINITELY can DEFINITELY be changed, and homosexuals should DEFINITELY have therapy.

I always said it can be changed ~30-50% of the time. This means it's likely enviromental factors.

I am undecided, though, whether or not bisexuality is genetic.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
royalpaladin
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7/12/2012 9:33:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It actually doesn't matter if they are born that way or not. People's liberty should not be restricted even if they are simply making a choice.
tulle
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7/12/2012 10:08:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 9:33:40 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
It actually doesn't matter if they are born that way or not. People's liberty should not be restricted even if they are simply making a choice.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Apparently 16 believes homosexuality is akin to mental illness but some mental illnesses have genetic basis and that doesn't make them any more or less legitimate than those that don't.

Additionally, we all have preferences. Whether or not we are born with those preferences doesn't change the fact that it simply is that way.
yang.
phantom
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7/12/2012 12:05:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 8:51:43 AM, tulle wrote:
I've seen people on both sides of the gay debate use arguments relating to whether or not people are born gay or with "gay genes". I fail to understand why it's relevant to either side. Why does it matter?

Mainly religious people have it in their heads that homosexuality is an evil and abominable act. That's really the underlying factor of objection against gay marriage and why it's always involved in debates.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
16kadams
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7/12/2012 12:18:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 10:08:53 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:33:40 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
It actually doesn't matter if they are born that way or not. People's liberty should not be restricted even if they are simply making a choice.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Apparently 16 believes homosexuality is akin to mental illness but some mental illnesses have genetic basis and that doesn't make them any more or less legitimate than those that don't.

Additionally, we all have preferences. Whether or not we are born with those preferences doesn't change the fact that it simply is that way.

Enviromental factors =\= mental illness
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Lasagna
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7/12/2012 12:57:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is the practical benefit of holding back homosexuals from doing what they feel? The "sanctity of marriage?" What exactly does that mean and how should I be worried about it affecting society or me personally (hetero male looking for marriage someday)?
Rob
16kadams
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7/12/2012 1:16:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 12:57:53 PM, Lasagna wrote:
What is the practical benefit of holding back homosexuals from doing what they feel? The "sanctity of marriage?" What exactly does that mean and how should I be worried about it affecting society or me personally (hetero male looking for marriage someday)?

That's off topic
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
DetectableNinja
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7/12/2012 1:19:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 12:18:38 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 10:08:53 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:33:40 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
It actually doesn't matter if they are born that way or not. People's liberty should not be restricted even if they are simply making a choice.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Apparently 16 believes homosexuality is akin to mental illness but some mental illnesses have genetic basis and that doesn't make them any more or less legitimate than those that don't.

Additionally, we all have preferences. Whether or not we are born with those preferences doesn't change the fact that it simply is that way.


Enviromental factors =\= mental illness

Clearly you do still think of it as a mental illness by encouraging gays to get "corrective" therapy/treatment.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
OberHerr
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7/12/2012 1:23:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wouldn't it solve so many problems if we just took the government out of marriage?
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DetectableNinja
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7/12/2012 1:40:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 1:23:15 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Wouldn't it solve so many problems if we just took the government out of marriage?

Yeah, but that sh1t clearly isn't happening, so.....
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Oryus
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7/12/2012 1:54:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 12:18:38 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/12/2012 10:08:53 AM, tulle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 9:33:40 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
It actually doesn't matter if they are born that way or not. People's liberty should not be restricted even if they are simply making a choice.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Apparently 16 believes homosexuality is akin to mental illness but some mental illnesses have genetic basis and that doesn't make them any more or less legitimate than those that don't.

Additionally, we all have preferences. Whether or not we are born with those preferences doesn't change the fact that it simply is that way.


Enviromental factors =\= mental illness

Are you trying to say that environmental factors do not cause mental illness or that environmental factors are not mental illness in themselves?

If the former, post traumatic stress disorder.
If the latter, duh.

Your arguments regarding this topic, especially regarding SSM, primarily hinge on whether homosexuality can be encouraged or discouraged through environmental factors. Quite a precarious argument you've got there. I hope you're preparing for late summer/early fall when I challenge you to a debate on it. :)
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.