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IQ Differences in Race Debate; For Jimmytimmy

bossyburrito
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8/2/2012 7:47:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"I'm not an expert in Genetics, but I do seem to know enough about this topic to be able to eloquently express the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FVCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! "
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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8/2/2012 8:56:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At the end, the guy said that he "Doesn't care what you have to say" then rage-quit :P
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/2/2012 2:11:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For awhile I was wondering whether the guy WAS JimTimmy. It was complete and utter deja vu, this coming from DDO's "JimTimmy on Race" expert.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have changed my opinions on this issue
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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8/3/2012 5:09:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I have changed my opinions on this issue

From what to what?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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8/3/2012 7:24:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 7:47:16 AM, bossyburrito wrote:

"I'm not an expert in Genetics, but I do seem to know enough about this topic to be able to eloquently express the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FVCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! "

I don't know who this JimTimmy person is or what history you guys are referring to, but listening to the debate was informative and a very enjoyable experience. The guy who made the quote above is one hell of a debater, I'm on his side of the issue and it was one of the most profound debate trouncings I've ever seen. You just gotta love it.

Thanks for posting it.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/5/2012 7:08:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 6:15:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
What is this BS?

It quite adequately demolishes every empirical aspect of your argument until it's reduced to a matter of defining races into existence based on properties.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/5/2012 7:58:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A lot of "race realists" are followers of fringeelements. I'm actually subscribed to fringeelements myself, and Reasoning and Jimtimmy were the ones who introduced me to him (although i previously watched his videos in high school when he had a different ideology, confederate socialism)

Confederate socialism is basically the idea of having small socialist societies and uniting them under a confederate government. While fringeelements has some socialist leanings, its a lot different type then most leftists like royal and a one that i could support.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/5/2012 8:19:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 7:55:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I'm not watching the 2 hour video tonight. Anybody have a basic rundown?

Everything JT likes cites has been overthrown in modern research or is misinterpretted by superficial wikipedia readings.

Seriously, JT you need to listen to this. It's downright spooky how much the guy sounds like you.
16kadams
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9/5/2012 8:23:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/3/2012 5:09:57 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I have changed my opinions on this issue

From what to what?

From a Jimtimmy stance to the opposing side.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/5/2012 8:24:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 8:23:27 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 8/3/2012 5:09:57 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I have changed my opinions on this issue

From what to what?

From a Jimtimmy stance to the opposing side.

Definitely one of the most convincing dialogues I've seen in a long time.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/5/2012 8:26:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 8:19:24 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 7:55:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I'm not watching the 2 hour video tonight. Anybody have a basic rundown?

Everything JT likes cites has been overthrown in modern research or is misinterpretted by superficial wikipedia readings.

Seriously, JT you need to listen to this. It's downright spooky how much the guy sounds like you.

Like I said, jimtimmy is a follower of fringeelements, so that's where he gets his arguments from.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/5/2012 9:00:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 8:24:19 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 8:23:27 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 8/3/2012 5:09:57 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I have changed my opinions on this issue

From what to what?

From a Jimtimmy stance to the opposing side.

Definitely one of the most convincing dialogues I've seen in a long time.

How?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/5/2012 9:07:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 9:00:07 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/5/2012 8:24:19 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 8:23:27 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 8/3/2012 5:09:57 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I have changed my opinions on this issue

From what to what?

From a Jimtimmy stance to the opposing side.

Definitely one of the most convincing dialogues I've seen in a long time.

How?

Just in terms of one-sidedness. Usually, there's SOME defense available, but the guy just keep knocking down every claim.

Granted, I haven't read too many DDO debates, so this isn't meant to compare the hosts debating some guy to the posters on this site. That's why I say "dialogue" not "debate."
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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9/5/2012 9:48:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 7:08:28 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 6:15:11 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
What is this BS?

It quite adequately demolishes every empirical aspect of your argument until it's reduced to a matter of defining races into existence based on properties.

The Fool: I wouldn't call any IQ test empirical. We don't even know if they have any relation to intellegence. But the easiest refutation to Jimmy is simply that people in one part of africa, are more genetically difference then a black person in other part of africa are to Asians.

I.Q. stand for a score on a test, its not a property of someone. Remember Social Science is not like other science. We don't have the actual technology to measure a actual form of intellegent. I.Q. test is a predictive corralation to success of Past student. Which was base on a correlation of Past student. It doesn't account for any other Possible social factors. But we all know that is many. Its doesn't account for the type of education either. It can't even tell if the cause is by telliing people that they scored bad, which can be the actual cause of the success. But one thing for sure ITS NOT ACTUAL INTELLEGENCE. But Jimmy is right that the Goverment Does cover up differences. They did cover up the bell Curve incident. The APA hire scientist to smugde up the significations. Its in the Rights that science is not allow to show discriminating factor. But its irrevent to the fact that they are NOT REALLY MEASURING actual intellegence. The test is only based on correspondent of previous test with success of there students. There has been many so could Geniouses and Protogies based of I.Q. score. And there has yet to be a significant correspondent with the worlds greatest discoveries AT ALL.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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9/5/2012 10:22:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't know how this demolishes anything. And, the hereditarian in the video, Fringe, actually has it right.
President of DDO
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/5/2012 10:30:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 9:07:03 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 9:00:07 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/5/2012 8:24:19 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 8:23:27 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 8/3/2012 5:09:57 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/2/2012 10:58:26 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I have changed my opinions on this issue

From what to what?

From a Jimtimmy stance to the opposing side.

Definitely one of the most convincing dialogues I've seen in a long time.

How?

Just in terms of one-sidedness. Usually, there's SOME defense available, but the guy just keep knocking down every claim.

Granted, I haven't read too many DDO debates, so this isn't meant to compare the hosts debating some guy to the posters on this site. That's why I say "dialogue" not "debate."

Oh, I was convinced before this video
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/6/2012 5:30:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 10:22:21 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I don't know how this demolishes anything. And, the hereditarian in the video, Fringe, actually has it right.





Cognitive dissonance, meet cognitive impairment.
jimtimmy
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9/6/2012 6:51:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 5:30:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 10:22:21 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I don't know how this demolishes anything. And, the hereditarian in the video, Fringe, actually has it right.





Hearing other views is hard. So, I'll just black it out.

Fix'd/
President of DDO
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/6/2012 7:27:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 7:47:16 AM, bossyburrito wrote:

"I'm not an expert in Genetics, but I do seem to know enough about this topic to be able to eloquently express the fact that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FVCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT! "

you cant say its only environmental, however it is possible to argue its mostly environmental.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/6/2012 7:42:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 6:51:56 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 9/6/2012 5:30:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 10:22:21 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I don't know how this demolishes anything. And, the hereditarian in the video, Fringe, actually has it right.





Hearing other views is hard. So, I'll just black it out.

Fix'd/

JT, I think if there is one thing that you should concede about me, it's that I am quite, quite willing to hear "others" hereditarian views, long past when everyone else has stopped.

We don't exactly have a blank slate.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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9/6/2012 8:56:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 7:42:57 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/6/2012 6:51:56 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 9/6/2012 5:30:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 10:22:21 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I don't know how this demolishes anything. And, the hereditarian in the video, Fringe, actually has it right.





Hearing other views is hard. So, I'll just black it out.

Fix'd/

JT, I think if there is one thing that you should concede about me, it's that I am quite, quite willing to hear "others" hereditarian views, long past when everyone else has stopped.

We don't exactly have a blank slate.

Yes, you are pretty open.

I grant you that.

Most, however, are not like that.
President of DDO
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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9/7/2012 1:49:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I watched he 2hr debate live last year, Fringelements and that hugely conceited college dropout guy. It was a massacre; fringe went stupid for most of the debate.

Mr. Smoke hard read later simply went to say race cannot be the basis of IQ disparity because we would have isolated the genes in question already, then more disturbingly went on to deny the possibility of any divergent evolution over the 800,000 of homo sapiens. He then said there's no such thing as race because humans are mixed, hurr, durr. Fringe went silent because our other friend doesn't debate he shouts and curses. What annoyed me most was when he said "We have less in common with a female of our own 'race' than a male of another." The non-biologists went crazy at this. What's cascading gene expression?

Anyway, all in all Youtube is too stupid for this sort of thing. Two fairly intelligent people go retarded when a camera is infront of them. : (
'sup DDO -- july 2013
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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9/9/2012 1:38:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/5/2012 8:19:24 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 7:55:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I'm not watching the 2 hour video tonight. Anybody have a basic rundown?

Everything JT likes cites has been overthrown in modern research or is misinterpretted by superficial wikipedia readings.

Seriously, JT you need to listen to this. It's downright spooky how much the guy sounds like you.

The Fool: Modern social science is that great. The truth its bias and sometimes ridged. I am compllyt again Jimmy. But the I.Q. test as such are Honest. They are not aloud to show to much difference between Sexs and race. I should say,the really do intention put questions that they think will be in favor for woman and the Other minorities. Its in the rights that Science is not allowed to do test thatcould create discrimation. And I mean discrimation in a very unspecific and open ended sense. For when ever they see it fit. Non the less, The methods for I.Q. in social "science" (Its really hard to me to say that second word) test are just are not that good in that they really don't relate to what We think by the word intellegence.

I.Q. stands for a Score on a test, which only refers to past reliabity on predicting, educational success. ITS NOT a property OF A PERSON. its a score. It never leaves the paper and goes into the person. In that THAT PERSON IS NOW MORE INTELLEGENT! The prediction are based from correlation(maybe only 60-70^at best with PAST YEAR. so its Post hoc. Its not even on the people that actually took it. It doesn';t acount for the kind of educatoin. We can make an I.Q. you and me, wnope. And we just see how it correlates with something, then standarzid the score and adjusted accordingly each time. Its not . As it should really be a BRAIN science. Its just because of the social assocation with the "word" Intellegence.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
TombLikeBomb
Posts: 639
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9/9/2012 7:38:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The racist on the video does have a right to be frustrated. The idea that all races are equally intelligent is aburd. It also happens to be absurd to assume that left-handed people have, on average, exactly the same IQs as right-handed people. That particualar egalitarianism reduces to absurdity in a desert island sort of way and is empirically disproved to boot. But you can bet you'll never hear one these frustrated types rail against it, and that's because left-handed people don't suffer the consequences of centuries of slavery repaired by 0 acres and 0 mules. That being "freed" into the lowest class of capitalism hasn't miraculously elevated them to averageness in a couple centuries should be less, not more, surprising than that it didn't do so instantaneously. That's because capitalism doesn't merely entrench wealth; it rewards it, same as it rewards (up to a point) intelligence.
From the time of the progressive era with the rise of public schooling through the post-WWII period, capital invaded the time workers had liberated from waged work and shaped it for purposes of social control. Perhaps the most obvious moment of this colonization was the re-incarceration in schools of the young (who were expelled from the factories by child labor laws) such that what might have been free time was structured to convert their life energies into labor power.
Brain_crazy
Posts: 242
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9/10/2012 8:12:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/6/2012 8:56:14 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 9/6/2012 7:42:57 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/6/2012 6:51:56 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 9/6/2012 5:30:14 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/5/2012 10:22:21 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I don't know how this demolishes anything. And, the hereditarian in the video, Fringe, actually has it right.





Hearing other views is hard. So, I'll just black it out.

Fix'd/

JT, I think if there is one thing that you should concede about me, it's that I am quite, quite willing to hear "others" hereditarian views, long past when everyone else has stopped.

We don't exactly have a blank slate.


Yes, you are pretty open.

I grant you that.

Most, however, are not like that.

From a research methods stand point, you can't even begin to make the claims you're attempting unless you hold race as a true independent variable. Seeing as it's a subject variable that's quite a daunting task. There are studies that have successfully done so in reference to discrimination though. (Results showed discrimination) I'm sure you're aware of this, but logically you can not make causal claims from correlation.
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/11/2012 6:28:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've heard of those 2 users, but never watched anything by them. But holy crap.

I watched an hour of the video. Skepticalheretic is an absolute monster. His ridiculous amount of knowledge of the topic is almost enviable. I couldn't believe how easily he responded to what all fringe said. And some of those lines he had (like the one mentioned in the OP) were pretty badass. Fringe - "We still have to go through all these studies." TSH - "We don't have to go through sh1t. Get yourself ready".

And in contrast, fringe (regardless of whose side you're on in the issue) obviously didn't have half the knowledge the other guy did. He was pretty impressive.