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Wait wtf

16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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8/10/2012 9:35:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It turns out our political ideology is 40-50% genetic, and the other half is a mix of enviromental and pshycological issues. For example, near 40% of 9/11 survivors became more conservative.

It says when you give facts and the other may not change his mind, it's due to factors you can't change.
http://www.livescience.com...

Also views on homosexuals and abortion may be genetic.
Eaves, L. J., and P. K. Hatemi. 2008. Transmission of Attitudes Toward Abortion and Gay Rights: Effects of Genes, Social Learning and Mate Selection. Behav. Genet. 38:247–256.

Weird I think...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
HelterSkelter
Posts: 281
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8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative. The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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8/10/2012 10:01:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Many twin studies look into identical twins and make conparisons groups to brothers and non-identical twins. This helps see if enviroment plays a factor (brothers), or if it's genetic (twins). Many studies don't do this, though, (Bayne and parsons, a famous twin study, didn't).

http://en.wikipedia.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
HelterSkelter
Posts: 281
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8/10/2012 10:20:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative.
Source
The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.
Source?

I want to see the link to the study, and not just assertions. I also want to see the outcomes of those specific results as well as the school environments in which they were raised. If both went to liberal schools, I wouldn't be surprised by the outcome.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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8/10/2012 10:25:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 10:20:21 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative.
Source
The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.
Source?

I want to see the link to the study, and not just assertions. I also want to see the outcomes of those specific results as well as the school environments in which they were raised. If both went to liberal schools, I wouldn't be surprised by the outcome.

http://amodiolab.org...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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8/10/2012 10:28:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 10:20:21 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative.
Source
The Myth of the Rational Voter. Multivariate regressions show that income is somewhat positively correlated with conservatism, but not enough to invalidate twin studies because twins are adopted by more affluent people--affluent people would have to be so overwhelmingly conservative that there weren't enough liberal families to have statistically significant results, which clearly wasn't the case.
The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.
Source?
http://online.wsj.com...
I want to see the link to the study, and not just assertions. I also want to see the outcomes of those specific results as well as the school environments in which they were raised. If both went to liberal schools, I wouldn't be surprised by the outcome.

Here's a link to 11 studies on the subject: http://scienceprogressaction.org...

Education is positively correlated with liberal ideology, but not so much so that it would explain the heritability of ideology.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2012 10:29:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:35:44 AM, 16kadams wrote:
It turns out our political ideology is 40-50% genetic, and the other half is a mix of enviromental and pshycological issues. For example, near 40% of 9/11 survivors became more conservative.

It says when you give facts and the other may not change his mind, it's due to factors you can't change.
http://www.livescience.com...

Also views on homosexuals and abortion may be genetic.
Eaves, L. J., and P. K. Hatemi. 2008. Transmission of Attitudes Toward Abortion and Gay Rights: Effects of Genes, Social Learning and Mate Selection. Behav. Genet. 38:247–256.


Weird I think...

more evidence in support of determinism.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/11/2012 12:42:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: That is social science. Take everything with a grain of salt. You could prove the bible true with social science. It ideology laden.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/11/2012 2:14:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative. The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.

Jewish is on the political spectrum?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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8/11/2012 1:08:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This probably has allot more truth in it in regard to the average citizen. But to those how are actually open-minded and care about rational belief, I'm sure it doesn't apply. Now, I do believe my personality may naturally be attracted to libertarianism. A personallity test I took actually even stated I'm most likely pro drug legalization. But I could see myself as almost any political ideology you name in the future, including socialist, anarchist or authoritarian.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/11/2012 5:22:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/11/2012 2:14:10 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative. The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.

Jewish is on the political spectrum?

Far Left, near Liberal.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/11/2012 5:27:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/11/2012 5:22:50 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 8/11/2012 2:14:10 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative. The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.

Jewish is on the political spectrum?

Far Left, near Liberal.

Most are. I have a Jewish mother so I have anecdotal evidence for this being true. However, my father side is more conservative which probably gives me the libertarian-minded edge.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/11/2012 5:35:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 10:25:15 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 8/10/2012 10:20:21 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative.
Source
The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.
Source?

I want to see the link to the study, and not just assertions. I also want to see the outcomes of those specific results as well as the school environments in which they were raised. If both went to liberal schools, I wouldn't be surprised by the outcome.

http://amodiolab.org...

This is actually a pretty damn good paper. Best political neuroscience I've seen since Haidt.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/11/2012 5:38:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/11/2012 5:35:22 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/10/2012 10:25:15 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 8/10/2012 10:20:21 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:48:20 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 8/10/2012 9:39:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I am wary of twin studies because often times the environment really isn't different since the adoption process selects for people who can provide stable homes for children (and they thus tend be more affluent and more likely to be conservative). I would like to see studies that control for these factors and study twins who were raised by families who were on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

People that are more affluent aren't much more likely to be conservative.
Source
The twins in these studies were adopted by people all over the political spectrum--in one case, a child was raised Jewish while his twin was raised a Nazi.
Source?

I want to see the link to the study, and not just assertions. I also want to see the outcomes of those specific results as well as the school environments in which they were raised. If both went to liberal schools, I wouldn't be surprised by the outcome.

http://amodiolab.org...

This is actually a pretty damn good paper. Best political neuroscience I've seen since Haidt.

"Jost et al. (2003a, b) conducted a meta-analytic review
of 88 studies conducted in 12 countries between 1958 and
2002, which confirmed that both situational and dispositional
variables associated with the management of threat
and uncertainty were robust predictors of political orientation.
Specifically, death anxiety, system instability, fear
of threat and loss, dogmatism, intolerance of ambiguity,
and personal needs for order, structure, and closure were all
positively associated with conservatism (or negatively
associated with liberalism). Conversely, openness to new
experiences, cognitive complexity, tolerance of uncertainty,
and self-esteem were all positively associated with
liberalism (or negatively associated with conservatism)."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/13/2012 8:02:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This isn't limited to ideology.
However, I'd strongly suggest that simplifying the issue with percentages is a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works. The percentages change.

For instance, I would say that anyone can be brainwashed to believe anything under the right conditions.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Brain_crazy
Posts: 242
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8/13/2012 8:09:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/10/2012 9:35:44 AM, 16kadams wrote:
It turns out our political ideology is 40-50% genetic, and the other half is a mix of enviromental and pshycological issues. For example, near 40% of 9/11 survivors became more conservative.

It says when you give facts and the other may not change his mind, it's due to factors you can't change.
http://www.livescience.com...

Also views on homosexuals and abortion may be genetic.
Eaves, L. J., and P. K. Hatemi. 2008. Transmission of Attitudes Toward Abortion and Gay Rights: Effects of Genes, Social Learning and Mate Selection. Behav. Genet. 38:247–256.


Weird I think...

Jonathan Haidt had a similar ted talk.