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Question about Wind Powered Cars

Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 4:18:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?

No. Not at all

With 100% efficiency, you could recoup all of the power that you used to create the friction for the turbines.

But, you would still be short all the energy that goes into air/road resistance for the rest of the car.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 4:19:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?

That being said, it is possible to make wind-powered vehicles than can travel faster than the wind or even against the wind.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/18/2012 4:26:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 4:18:14 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?

No. Not at all

With 100% efficiency, you could recoup all of the power that you used to create the friction for the turbines.

But, you would still be short all the energy that goes into air/road resistance for the rest of the car.

So even if it would not be able to completely recoup the energy that it takes to go forward, it would still cut down on fuel consumption by a significant amount, right?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 4:29:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 4:26:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/18/2012 4:18:14 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?

No. Not at all

With 100% efficiency, you could recoup all of the power that you used to create the friction for the turbines.

But, you would still be short all the energy that goes into air/road resistance for the rest of the car.

So even if it would not be able to completely recoup the energy that it takes to go forward, it would still cut down on fuel consumption by a significant amount, right?

No.

Let's say that adding those fans adds +1% drag to the car at 30mph.

With 100% efficiency, you would be able to get that 1% of energy it took to get the car to 30mph back... You have to increase the drag to put on those fans, and that takes more energy.

Sorry, there really isn't any free energy to be had.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/18/2012 4:33:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 4:29:52 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 4:26:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/18/2012 4:18:14 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?

No. Not at all

With 100% efficiency, you could recoup all of the power that you used to create the friction for the turbines.

But, you would still be short all the energy that goes into air/road resistance for the rest of the car.

So even if it would not be able to completely recoup the energy that it takes to go forward, it would still cut down on fuel consumption by a significant amount, right?

No.

Let's say that adding those fans adds +1% drag to the car at 30mph.

With 100% efficiency, you would be able to get that 1% of energy it took to get the car to 30mph back... You have to increase the drag to put on those fans, and that takes more energy.

Sorry, there really isn't any free energy to be had.

No, I'm talking about the energy of the wind that the car experiences when going forwards, kind of like sticking your hand out the window and experiencing resistance.

Also, the turbines would be built into the bulk of the car so there would be no extra resistance.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 4:33:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 4:21:02 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
http://www.wired.com...

You could try to implement the principle behind these wind-powered-vehicles, and get more energy back than you create drag...

But only up to certain speeds, probably like 10-20mph.

But, for it to make a difference on a modern car, you'd probably end up just running your fan into an overpass... or killing innocent bystanders.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 4:35:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 4:33:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/18/2012 4:29:52 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 4:26:57 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/18/2012 4:18:14 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/18/2012 2:45:10 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Would it be possible to create a car with small flaps on the bumper and the side mirror which would spin when subjected to wind- which would be all the time since the car is in motion to generate energy for it to move? The initial energy to start moving the car would be from some kind of fuel but the energy to keep it moving would come from its own motion.

Would this be possible/feasible?

No. Not at all

With 100% efficiency, you could recoup all of the power that you used to create the friction for the turbines.

But, you would still be short all the energy that goes into air/road resistance for the rest of the car.

So even if it would not be able to completely recoup the energy that it takes to go forward, it would still cut down on fuel consumption by a significant amount, right?

No.

Let's say that adding those fans adds +1% drag to the car at 30mph.

With 100% efficiency, you would be able to get that 1% of energy it took to get the car to 30mph back... You have to increase the drag to put on those fans, and that takes more energy.

Sorry, there really isn't any free energy to be had.

No, I'm talking about the energy of the wind that the car experiences when going forwards, kind of like sticking your hand out the window and experiencing resistance.

I know.

Let's say you stick a little windmill out your window at 30mph.

That is going to increase drag and slow the car down. You will have to increase power by x% to maintain 30mph.

If you got 100% efficiency out of the windmill, you should get back exactly x% power, the same amount it took to overcome the extra drag in the first place.

Also, the turbines would be built into the bulk of the car so there would be no extra resistance.

There would be extra resistance... you are spinning a turbine, that takes energy, and the energy has to come from somewhere. It would be less aerodynamic than the same car without it.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/18/2012 4:38:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So you're saying that the amount of energy generated is akin to the amount of resistance that it generates, at 100% efficiency?

Damn physics.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 4:44:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 4:38:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
So you're saying that the amount of energy generated is akin to the amount of resistance that it generates, at 100% efficiency?

Damn physics.

The energy it generated would equal the energy needed to create that resistance, yes.

It's not 100% accurate, but close enough for real world application in that sense.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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8/18/2012 9:49:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The reason you can never have a 100% efficient anything: there is a scientific consensus that perpetual motion in an isolated system would violate the first and/or second law of thermodynamics.

That being said, we can get pretty close:
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imabench
Posts: 21,206
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8/18/2012 10:00:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
wind power only works when you have a very large fan moving at a reasonable speed, not a small fan spinning at incredible speeds.
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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/18/2012 10:19:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/18/2012 9:49:42 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
The reason you can never have a 100% efficient anything: there is a scientific consensus that perpetual motion in an isolated system would violate the first and/or second law of thermodynamics.

That being said, we can get pretty close:

That dude is a retard.

Hmmm, we can cut the scene to a scene where it is spinning faster! And then cut every scene before it stops.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13