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emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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11/12/2012 7:56:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Monkeys are still around therefore we could not have evolved from them."

*Facepalm*

"Humans evolved from monkeys."

*Facepalm*

"Humans evolved from apes."

*Facepalm*

"Something can not come from nothing, therefore evolution is false."

*Facepalm*

"Apes can't give birth to humans."

*Facepalm*

"You don't see dogs giving birth to cats."

*Facepalm*

"Evolution is only a theory, therefore it is false."

*Facepalm*

"Science is of the devil."

*Facepalm*

"Man came from dust."

*Facepalm*

"Woman came from Man's rib."

*Facepalm*

"A man survived inside of a whale's stomach."

*Facepalm*

"A whale's stomach acid has no affect on a person."

*Facepalm*

"A virgin gave birth to a son."

*Facepalm*

"Man can walk on water."

*Facepalm*

"Snakes can talk."

*Facepalm*

"The Jesus story is original."

*Facepalm*

"God allows evil because he loves us."

*Facepalm*

"God hates f*gs."

*Facepalm*
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/12/2012 9:20:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Accusations that the story of Jesus is plagiarized from previous myths are largely distorted and false from what I've researched, just so you know. (There are a number of traditional similarities though but that's just because the early church fathers wanted Christianity to seem more appealing to the Romans and so adopted different traditions).
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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11/12/2012 11:20:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 9:20:41 PM, phantom wrote:
Accusations that the story of Jesus is plagiarized from previous myths are largely distorted and false from what I've researched, just so you know. (There are a number of traditional similarities though but that's just because the early church fathers wanted Christianity to seem more appealing to the Romans and so adopted different traditions).

There are nearly identical myths to jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/12/2012 11:46:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 11:20:26 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 11/12/2012 9:20:41 PM, phantom wrote:
Accusations that the story of Jesus is plagiarized from previous myths are largely distorted and false from what I've researched, just so you know. (There are a number of traditional similarities though but that's just because the early church fathers wanted Christianity to seem more appealing to the Romans and so adopted different traditions).

There are nearly identical myths to jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia, oh no, I hath been refuted!

Ok, let's start with Horus. Birth of Horus was not a virgin birth. Ises was Horus's mother. Osiris was his father. Set killed Osirirs and Isis set out to find the body. She found it and beat her wings over it giving him life momentarily. They then made love together and thus came Horus. Not a virgin birth at all. Keep in mind there are generally different stories but that's because of translation. This was the general gist of it that I got from reading though and nothing except the bias sources suggest it was virginal.

The similarities between the names of Horus's and Jesus is a rather dishonest claim. Isis Meri is indeed remaradly similar to Mary. But the big problem is "meri" is not even a name. In fact many other Gods were called by it. It's an adjective meaning "beloved" and was common amongst Egyptian gods. So all the facts end up as being Isis was called beloved and beloved happened to sound like meri. It's realy not that improbable that one adjetive used to describe a god happened to sound like Marry.

The claims that Jesus and Horus share the same birth date are just irrelevent. The Bible never claims Jesus was born on the 25th of December. It was only AD 440 that they began doing so and it was because the early church wanted Christianty to be more palatable to the Romans. That aside, Horus was claimed to have been born during "Khoiak" which is november/october.

Also nothing hints that Horus was supposed to be a teacher at the age of 12. The only mention of that time period is of Isis protecting him from Set and that he was weak.

Horus also didn't have twelve disciples. His followers were claimed to be either four semi-gods or 16 humans.

It's also absurd to say Horus was crucified when crucifixion was only invented by the Persians in 519 BC, after the story of Horus. Besides that, the story of Horus goes that he died of scorpion poisoning.

The only accurate claim is that he was resurected but nothing mentions him being burried for three days let alone being burried at all. Restoration from life is common in myths so not much to make a fuss about.

http://www.marysia.com...

http://www.laits.utexas.edu...

http://1peter315.wordpress.com...

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org...

http://www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk...

http://www.egyptianmyths.net...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

http://wiki.white-wolf.com...

http://www.sacred-texts.com...

http://www.frugalsites.net...

http://www.bible.ca...

http://www.sacred-texts.com...
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 12:03:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

Excuse this non-credible source. Not sure why I included it.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Wulfyn
Posts: 33
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11/13/2012 2:08:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 9:20:41 PM, phantom wrote:
Accusations that the story of Jesus is plagiarized from previous myths are largely distorted and false from what I've researched, just so you know. (There are a number of traditional similarities though but that's just because the early church fathers wanted Christianity to seem more appealing to the Romans and so adopted different traditions).

In 1934 the spectacularly named Fitzroy Richard Somerset gave an address based on an essay he had written to the English Folklore Society. Two years later he published this as [i]The Hero: A Study in Tradition, Myth, and Drama[/i]. In the book he identified 22 elements that were commonly found in all hero mythologies. It is unclear whether this is an originating story that is passed down to different civilisations, each altering it to fit the contemporary literature, or whether these are things that are considered heroic by humans and therefore independently arise.

The list is called the Oedipus list because he scores full marks. The book [i]The Study of Folklore[/i] by Alan Dundes lists the 22 elements along with some scores for historic/mythological heroes.

The List:
1. His mother is a royal virgin
2. His father is a king, and
3. Often a near relative of his mother, but
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5. He is also reputed to the son of a god.
6. At birth an attempt is made, often by his father, to kill him, but
7. He is spirited away, and
8. Reared by foster parents in a far country.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
13. Becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully, and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne or city.
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill.
20. His children, if any, do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy speulchers.

As mentioned Oedipus scores all 22. Also highly scoring are Theseus with 20, Romulus with 17, Heracles with 17, Perseus with 16 and Jason of Argonaut fame with 14. The ancient Greeks and Romans definitely loved their heroes! The list for them goes on with Bellerophon (16), Pelops (14), Asclepius (12), Dionysus (19), Zeus (15) and Apollo who scores 11 after the first 15 points where his story stops.

Here's a different time period:
His parents (1&2) were of the principal family of the Levites and (3) near relatives. He was also (5) reputed to be the son of the Pharaoh's daughter. Pharaoh (6) attempts to kill him at birth, but (7) he is wafted away and (8) reared secretly. We are told (9) nothing of his childhood, but on reaching manhood he kills a man (11) and goes to Midan (10), where (12) he marries the ruler's daughter. Returning to Egypt, he gains (11 again) a series of magical victories over the Pharoah, after which he becomes a ruler (13). For a time his rule (14) is succcessful and he prescribes laws (15), but later he loses (16) the favor of Jehovah, is deposed (17) from his leadership, and (18) disappears mysteriously from (19) the top of a mountain. His children (20) do not successd him. He has no burial place (21), but nevertheless has a holy sepulchur (22).

Moses scores 21 points.

In fact I tried this myself against a clearly fictional modern hero - Luke Skywalker!
1. His mother is a queen
2. Does Darth Vader count as a king? Well he is a powerful ruler in the Empire. Close enough in my opinion.
3. Nope
4. Yep, whilst told to protect her on her home planet they have a picnic and (according to the film) a PG romp in a field only to separate afterwards with nobody the wiser.
5. Does Darth Vader count as a god? Well the Jedi / Sith are as close to gods as the greek and roman gods in having magical powers, so again close enough in my opinion.
6. There was the threat of this but no actual attempt, so probably not good enough.
7. Yep, to the desert no less...
8. Raised by his 'aunt and uncle'
9. The story skips from him being a baby (ep3) to him being a young adult (ep4).
10. He joins the Empire! Well he tries to before the Obi Wan stuff and then he returns to the empire to fight them.
11. He defeats Darth Vader and the Emperor
..and that's where the story ends (ep6). So he scored 9/11!!

I'll leave you all to make up your own mind on how highly Jesus scored.

p.s. sorry for the deflection - to the OP I'd say you should add "dogs came from a rock" to the list. :)
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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11/13/2012 3:35:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 11:46:34 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/12/2012 11:20:26 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 11/12/2012 9:20:41 PM, phantom wrote:
Accusations that the story of Jesus is plagiarized from previous myths are largely distorted and false from what I've researched, just so you know. (There are a number of traditional similarities though but that's just because the early church fathers wanted Christianity to seem more appealing to the Romans and so adopted different traditions).

There are nearly identical myths to jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Wikipedia, oh no, I hath been refuted!

Ok, let's start with Horus. Birth of Horus was not a virgin birth. Ises was Horus's mother. Osiris was his father. Set killed Osirirs and Isis set out to find the body. She found it and beat her wings over it giving him life momentarily. They then made love together and thus came Horus. Not a virgin birth at all. Keep in mind there are generally different stories but that's because of translation. This was the general gist of it that I got from reading though and nothing except the bias sources suggest it was virginal.

The similarities between the names of Horus's and Jesus is a rather dishonest claim. Isis Meri is indeed remaradly similar to Mary. But the big problem is "meri" is not even a name. In fact many other Gods were called by it. It's an adjective meaning "beloved" and was common amongst Egyptian gods. So all the facts end up as being Isis was called beloved and beloved happened to sound like meri. It's realy not that improbable that one adjetive used to describe a god happened to sound like Marry.

The claims that Jesus and Horus share the same birth date are just irrelevent. The Bible never claims Jesus was born on the 25th of December. It was only AD 440 that they began doing so and it was because the early church wanted Christianty to be more palatable to the Romans. That aside, Horus was claimed to have been born during "Khoiak" which is november/october.

Also nothing hints that Horus was supposed to be a teacher at the age of 12. The only mention of that time period is of Isis protecting him from Set and that he was weak.

Horus also didn't have twelve disciples. His followers were claimed to be either four semi-gods or 16 humans.

It's also absurd to say Horus was crucified when crucifixion was only invented by the Persians in 519 BC, after the story of Horus. Besides that, the story of Horus goes that he died of scorpion poisoning.

The only accurate claim is that he was resurected but nothing mentions him being burried for three days let alone being burried at all. Restoration from life is common in myths so not much to make a fuss about.

http://www.marysia.com...

http://www.laits.utexas.edu...

http://1peter315.wordpress.com...

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org...

http://www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk...

http://www.egyptianmyths.net...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

http://wiki.white-wolf.com...

http://www.sacred-texts.com...

http://www.frugalsites.net...

http://www.bible.ca...

http://www.sacred-texts.com...

I enjoyed your ad hominem towards wikipedia. Other then that, thank you for the retort.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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11/13/2012 8:39:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Evolution is not fact..it's deception" - ScottyDouglas

*Facepalm*

"Evolution is a lie from the pits of hell." - Typical fundie

*Facepalm*

"Atheists worship the devil whether they think they do or not." -SD

*Facepalm*

"Don't let the Devil make a monkey out of you." - Jesus-is-Savior.com

*Facepalm
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/13/2012 12:41:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 2:08:23 AM, Wulfyn wrote:

I'll have to look into it more. I have no problem being refuted since I'm not Christian but just about everything I researched was quite false.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/22/2012 12:35:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 2:08:23 AM, Wulfyn wrote:
At 11/12/2012 9:20:41 PM, phantom wrote:
Accusations that the story of Jesus is plagiarized from previous myths are largely distorted and false from what I've researched, just so you know. (There are a number of traditional similarities though but that's just because the early church fathers wanted Christianity to seem more appealing to the Romans and so adopted different traditions).


In 1934 the spectacularly named Fitzroy Richard Somerset gave an address based on an essay he had written to the English Folklore Society. Two years later he published this as [i]The Hero: A Study in Tradition, Myth, and Drama[/i]. In the book he identified 22 elements that were commonly found in all hero mythologies. It is unclear whether this is an originating story that is passed down to different civilisations, each altering it to fit the contemporary literature, or whether these are things that are considered heroic by humans and therefore independently arise.

The list is called the Oedipus list because he scores full marks. The book [i]The Study of Folklore[/i] by Alan Dundes lists the 22 elements along with some scores for historic/mythological heroes...


The List:
1. His mother is a royal virgin
2. His father is a king, and
3. Often a near relative of his mother, but
4. The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5. He is also reputed to the son of a god.
6. At birth an attempt is made, often by his father, to kill him, but
7. He is spirited away, and
8. Reared by foster parents in a far country.
9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
11. After a victory over the king and/or a giant, dragon or wild beast,
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
13. Becomes king.
14. For a time he reigns uneventfully, and
15. Prescribes laws, but
16. Later he loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
17. Is driven from the throne or city.
18. He meets with a mysterious death,
19. Often at the top of a hill.
20. His children, if any, do not succeed him.
21. His body is not buried, but nevertheless
22. He has one or more holy speulchers.


As mentioned Oedipus scores all 22. Also highly scoring are Theseus with 20, Romulus with 17, Heracles with 17, Perseus with 16 and Jason of Argonaut fame with 14. The ancient Greeks and Romans definitely loved their heroes! The list for them goes on with Bellerophon (16), Pelops (14), Asclepius (12), Dionysus (19), Zeus (15) and Apollo who scores 11 after the first 15 points where his story stops.


Here's a different time period:
His parents (1&2) were of the principal family of the Levites and
His parents were not royal, and his mother wasn't a virgin.
(3) near relatives.
He was also (5) reputed to be the son of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Where did you get that from?

Pharaoh (6) attempts to kill him at birth,
?
but (7) he is wafted away
?
and (8) reared secretly.
?
We are told (9) nothing of his childhood,
See Exodus chapter 2.
but on reaching manhood he kills a man (11)
A man. Not a "king and/or a giant, dragon or wild beast".
and goes to Midan (10),
Midan was not his "his future kingdom".
where (12) he marries the ruler's daughter.
Jethero wasn't a ruler, he was a priest.
A ruler would not have his daughters take care of sheep, (nor would men chase them away).
Returning to Egypt, he gains (11 again) a series of magical victories over the Pharoah,
He does not kill him.
after which he becomes a ruler (13). For a time his rule (14) is succcessful and he prescribes laws (15), but later he loses (16) the favor of Jehovah,
is deposed (17) from his leadership,
Numbers 12:7 - Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house

and (18) disappears mysteriously from (19) the top of a mountain.
He did not disappear.
His children (20) do not successd him. He has no burial place (21),
"And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knows where he is buried, to this day."
but nevertheless has a holy sepulchur (22).
?
Even if this list was true. One could argue that everyone got the 22 elements from one origional source. & that source would be the bible.


Moses scores 21 points.

In fact I tried this myself against a clearly fictional modern hero - Luke Skywalker!
1. His mother is a queen
2. Does Darth Vader count as a king? Well he is a powerful ruler in the Empire. Close enough in my opinion.
3. Nope
4. Yep, whilst told to protect her on her home planet they have a picnic and (according to the film) a PG romp in a field only to separate afterwards with nobody the wiser.
5. Does Darth Vader count as a god? Well the Jedi / Sith are as close to gods as the greek and roman gods in having magical powers, so again close enough in my opinion.
6. There was the threat of this but no actual attempt, so probably not good enough.
7. Yep, to the desert no less...
8. Raised by his 'aunt and uncle'
9. The story skips from him being a baby (ep3) to him being a young adult (ep4).
10. He joins the Empire! Well he tries to before the Obi Wan stuff and then he returns to the empire to fight them.
11. He defeats Darth Vader and the Emperor
..and that's where the story ends (ep6). So he scored 9/11!!


I'll leave you all to make up your own mind on how highly Jesus scored.


p.s. sorry for the deflection - to the OP I'd say you should add "dogs came from a rock" to the list. :)
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
Muted
Posts: 377
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11/22/2012 12:42:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/14/2012 12:37:32 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Religion section

-------------------->

That way
Exterminate!!!!!!-Dalek.

The ability to speak does not make you a competent debater.

One does not simply do the rain dance.