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Surrogate Mother for Neanderthal Baby

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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1/21/2013 7:47:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wanted: 'Adventurous woman' to give birth to Neanderthal man - Harvard professor seeks mother for cloned cave baby. Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School believes he can reconstruct Neanderthal DNA. His ambitious plan requires a human volunteer willing to allow the DNA to be put into stem cells, then a human embryo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
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tmar19652
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1/21/2013 7:53:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is this legal?
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YYW
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1/21/2013 8:11:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 7:47:01 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Wanted: 'Adventurous woman' to give birth to Neanderthal man - Harvard professor seeks mother for cloned cave baby. Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School believes he can reconstruct Neanderthal DNA. His ambitious plan requires a human volunteer willing to allow the DNA to be put into stem cells, then a human embryo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

What a hot mess of ethical problems this raises.
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Wallstreetatheist
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1/21/2013 8:35:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 7:53:23 PM, tmar19652 wrote:
Is this legal?

There are laws against human cloning in many countries, but the laws don't reference the the use of the procedure on neanderthals, so yes it's legal for the time being. I think it's incredibly interesting that this is theoretically possible and one of the world's leading geneticists is heading the project.
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Wallstreetatheist
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1/21/2013 8:37:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 8:11:47 PM, YYW wrote:
What a hot mess of ethical problems this raises.

I say, "Clone first, debate later." I'd rather be reading an article that said Harvard already revived a 33,000-year extinct species than reading an article discussing the plan and possibility of doing so.

What ethical issues immediately come to mind for you?
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lewis20
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1/21/2013 9:01:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 8:37:24 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 1/21/2013 8:11:47 PM, YYW wrote:
What a hot mess of ethical problems this raises.

I say, "Clone first, debate later." I'd rather be reading an article that said Harvard already revived a 33,000-year extinct species than reading an article discussing the plan and possibility of doing so.

What ethical issues immediately come to mind for you?

For one, the other kids at school are going to make fun of him.
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bossyburrito
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1/21/2013 9:13:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 9:01:58 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/21/2013 8:37:24 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 1/21/2013 8:11:47 PM, YYW wrote:
What a hot mess of ethical problems this raises.

I say, "Clone first, debate later." I'd rather be reading an article that said Harvard already revived a 33,000-year extinct species than reading an article discussing the plan and possibility of doing so.

What ethical issues immediately come to mind for you?

For one, the other kids at school are going to make fun of him.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
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OberHerr
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1/21/2013 9:18:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Heh, Royal should volunteer for this, then all the stolen Neanderthal land can go back to its true masters.
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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1/22/2013 7:15:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nothing new here, it's been done.

I have a neighbor that is clearly a surving neanderthal, he's married and has kids.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
R0b1Billion
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1/22/2013 9:45:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only ethical problem I see is inherent in any capitalistic endeavor - we are going to have a mother going through with this that really doesn't want to, but simply feels obligated through the necessity to make more money. Birthing a baby can be
- excruciatingly painful
- fatal
- permanently altering to the mother's biological/psychological makeup

It really makes no sense for any woman to go through with this, knowing that the chances for a "smooth" pregnancy are not that good. But when money is offered, there's really nothing a person won't do to get it. Even if the experiment was surely fatal, there would still be a price high enough to attract attention (probably not that high in poorer regions of the world).

With that all said, the chances for scientific progress are exciting. But the ends don't justify the means.
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Mirza
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1/22/2013 9:52:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 9:18:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Heh, Royal should volunteer for this
That's so wrong of you to say. She should be forced to do it instead of delaying such a great experiment.
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,585
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1/22/2013 10:14:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 7:47:01 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Wanted: 'Adventurous woman' to give birth to Neanderthal man - Harvard professor seeks mother for cloned cave baby. Professor George Church of Harvard Medical School believes he can reconstruct Neanderthal DNA. His ambitious plan requires a human volunteer willing to allow the DNA to be put into stem cells, then a human embryo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Didn't we once see a somewhat similar situation with "Oliver" ?

Harry.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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1/22/2013 10:34:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/21/2013 9:01:58 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/21/2013 8:37:24 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 1/21/2013 8:11:47 PM, YYW wrote:
What a hot mess of ethical problems this raises.

I say, "Clone first, debate later." I'd rather be reading an article that said Harvard already revived a 33,000-year extinct species than reading an article discussing the plan and possibility of doing so.

What ethical issues immediately come to mind for you?

For one, the other kids at school are going to make fun of him.

That may be more of a problem for the other kids.

It's hard to say what the ethical implication would be since no one knows what the issues facing this type of hybrid would be. There would certainly be plenty of issues but, then again, that could be said of any lifeform. Perhaps the main concern would be the fact that no modern, convential living arrangement would be available. Could a half-neanderthal really live safely in a regular house with its parents? Even if it could, the researchers wouldn't know for sure so they would have to keep it in a monitoring facility. The parents would have to commit to raising it in this artificial environment. Also, it's not certain that a human parent can really bond with a half-neanderthal child.
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lewis20
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1/22/2013 10:46:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Don't most people of European descent have some neanderthal DNA in them anyway?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
rross
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1/22/2013 11:16:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 10:46:57 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Don't most people of European descent have some neanderthal DNA in them anyway?

Yep. Lots of interbreeding between neanderthals and humans.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au...
Sidewalker
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1/22/2013 12:49:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 10:46:57 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Don't most people of European descent have some neanderthal DNA in them anyway?

Most people with red hair do too.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Oryus
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1/22/2013 6:10:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 10:46:57 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Don't most people of European descent have some neanderthal DNA in them anyway?

Europeans, less frequent in Asians. No Africans.

@OP
I doubt if it's going to happen.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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Oryus
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1/22/2013 6:12:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And I think it's a terrible idea for many reasons- not the least of which are all the aforementioned ethical issues involved.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
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1/22/2013 6:16:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 11:16:45 AM, rross wrote:
At 1/22/2013 10:46:57 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Don't most people of European descent have some neanderthal DNA in them anyway?

Yep. Lots of interbreeding between neanderthals and humans.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au...

"The Neanderthals are both the most familiar and the least understood of all our fossil kin." from the nat geo article.

lolwut. They are not the least understood by far....

Oh, National Geographic....
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Sidewalker
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1/22/2013 7:57:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/22/2013 6:52:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
And you guys are disgusting.

Do you have red hair?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Franz_Reynard
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1/24/2013 11:14:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wonder why scientists wouldn't more more interested in the missing link than they would neanderthals.

I don't see the logic behind neanderthals being more intelligent than humans, if neanderthals were bigger, potentially stronger, and more physically equipped to handle harsher weather (hairier, more effective fat distribution, etc.), and yet, went extinct while this planet just can't seem to get rid of humans.
Oryus
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1/24/2013 1:20:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/24/2013 11:14:42 AM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
I wonder why scientists wouldn't more more interested in the missing link than they would neanderthals.

I don't see the logic behind neanderthals being more intelligent than humans,
Who said that? From what I understand, most scientists agree they were either as intelligent as humans or less intelligent- I've never heard that they were more intelligent than H. sapiens.
if neanderthals were bigger, potentially stronger, and more physically equipped to handle harsher weather (hairier, more effective fat distribution, etc.), and yet, went extinct while this planet just can't seem to get rid of humans.

They weren't necessarily bigger, per se. In fact, they were pretty short on average- shorter than us. But being short and stocky helps in cold climates to conserve heat. It also helps that most of their daily activities consisted of preparing hides to wear to keep warm. In fact, they did so so much that the right humeri of neandertals was markedly more strengthened than the left.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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1/24/2013 6:17:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/24/2013 1:20:54 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/24/2013 11:14:42 AM, Franz_Reynard wrote:
I wonder why scientists wouldn't more more interested in the missing link than they would neanderthals.

I don't see the logic behind neanderthals being more intelligent than humans,
Who said that? From what I understand, most scientists agree they were either as intelligent as humans or less intelligent- I've never heard that they were more intelligent than H. sapiens.

"He says Neanderthals were not the lumbering brutes of the stereotype, but highly intelligent. Their brains were roughly the same size as man"s, and they made primitive tools.

Cloning the caveman: Geneticist Professor George Church
He believes his project could benefit mankind.

He told German magazine Der Spiegel: "Neanderthals might think differently than we do. They could even be more intelligent than us.
"When the time comes to deal with an epidemic or getting off the planet, it"s conceivable that their way of thinking could be beneficial.""

if neanderthals were bigger, potentially stronger, and more physically equipped to handle harsher weather (hairier, more effective fat distribution, etc.), and yet, went extinct while this planet just can't seem to get rid of humans.
They weren't necessarily bigger, per se. In fact, they were pretty short on average- shorter than us. But being short and stocky helps in cold climates to conserve heat. It also helps that most of their daily activities consisted of preparing hides to wear to keep warm. In fact, they did so so much that the right humeri of neandertals was markedly more strengthened than the left.

They're shorter than contemporary humans, but taller than primitive humans, which averaged something like 5 and a half feet, I believe.

Indeed, they were quite behaviorally and physically adaptive. The fact that they went extinct is rather mysterious, in my opinion, as well as all other hominids. However, considering the temperament and attitude of contemporary humans, I can imagine what it was that led to they being the last ones with such high cognition, if it wasn't a pandemic.