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And I quote you, Mr. Sagan...

emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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2/5/2013 5:13:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Carl Sagan said this:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thoughts? Comments?
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Nidhogg
Posts: 503
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2/5/2013 5:21:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Trying to start a religious debate, eh?
Ridiculously Photogenic Debater

DDO's most mediocre member since at least a year ago
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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2/5/2013 5:26:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:21:33 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Trying to start a religious debate, eh?

No, I just wanted to know your thoughts on the quote... >:O
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
Nidhogg
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2/5/2013 5:28:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:26:20 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:21:33 PM, Nidhogg wrote:
Trying to start a religious debate, eh?

No, I just wanted to know your thoughts on the quote... >:O

I think it's valid.
Ridiculously Photogenic Debater

DDO's most mediocre member since at least a year ago
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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2/5/2013 5:43:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:13:24 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
Carl Sagan said this:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thoughts? Comments?

I know that's supposed to be a slight against religion, but setting that outside for a moment for a more general case, why should we accept that? What if the Universe is such that truly grasping it inevitable leads to untold depression, mental fatigue, etc.? Additionally, depending on what's meant by "grasping it," what if doing so would cause one to come to the realization that there's no big picture, that a joyous life lived in ignorance is better than the alternative for no reason other than that it would cause far more pleasure? Of course there are a multitude of answers to be given, but my point is that even if it's true, it certainly doesn't seem to be obviously so.
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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2/5/2013 5:54:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let me add on to that by saying that I do think it's true. But that's a consequence of the metaphysical beliefs I hold which are very closely intertwined with my religious views, ones that I'm not sure could necessarily be maintained sensibly under naturalism, especially in the case above. Meh, I don't know.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/5/2013 7:28:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:13:24 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
Carl Sagan said this:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thoughts? Comments?

In the same book he also said, ""Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Franz_Reynard
Posts: 1,227
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2/5/2013 10:20:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 7:28:50 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:13:24 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
Carl Sagan said this:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thoughts? Comments?

In the same book he also said, ""Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."

Both is so much truth.

Carl Sagan is a winner.
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/8/2013 6:21:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe?

Considering he was a distinguished astrophysicist - a lot, I would say.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/8/2013 7:41:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 6:21:50 PM, Polaris wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe?

Considering he was a distinguished astrophysicist - a lot, I would say.

Yep, and yet his best book was about evolution.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/8/2013 8:13:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.

Where in my post did I take any positon on anything. You are delusional. You read things that arent there. Now show me the conclusive proof which all scientists agree upon using the scientific method showing the origin of the universe and how it came to be.

Please post source, or news article putting this age old question to rest once and for all.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/8/2013 9:06:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:13:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.

Where in my post did I take any positon on anything. You are delusional. You read things that arent there. Now show me the conclusive proof which all scientists agree upon using the scientific method showing the origin of the universe and how it came to be.

You were respoonding to a Carl Sagan quote, the quote was:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Did you really not know what you were replying too? You really can't connect the dots?

Please post source, or news article putting this age old question to rest once and for all.

I'm sorry, but if you can't understand the relationship between a single sentence quote and your reply to it, I'm thinking that trying to understand "the origin of the universe and how it was created" just isn't for you.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Polaris
Posts: 1,120
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2/8/2013 10:15:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:13:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.

Where in my post did I take any positon on anything. You are delusional. You read things that arent there. Now show me the conclusive proof which all scientists agree upon using the scientific method showing the origin of the universe and how it came to be.

Please post source, or news article putting this age old question to rest once and for all.

You fretting over the scientific understanding of cosmology, isn't relevant to the topic of discussion.
socratus
Posts: 102
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2/10/2013 12:41:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:13:24 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
Carl Sagan said this:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is
than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thoughts? Comments?
How ' to grasp the Universe as it really is' ?
How to describe the Universe as it really is ?
=.
In his " Scientific Autobiography" Max Planck wrote :
' The outside world is something independent from man,
something absolute, and the quest for the laws which apply
to this absolute appeared to me as the most sublime scientific
pursuit in life. '

What are these ' laws which apply to this absolute ' world ?
==..
In the beginning Planck wrote, that " From young years....
the search of the laws, concerning to something absolute,
seemed to me the most wonderful task in scientist"s life."
And after some pages Planck wrote again, that
" the search for something absolute seemed to me the
most wonderful task for a researcher."
And after some pages Planck wrote again, that
" the most wonderful scientific task for me was
searching of something absolute."
==..
And as for the relation between "relativity and absolute"
Planck wrote, that the fact of " relativity assumes the
existence of something absolute" ;
"the relativity has sense when something absolute resists it."
Planck wrote that the phrase " all is relative " misleads us,
because there is something absolute .
And the most attractive thing was for Planck
"to find something absolute that was hidden in its foundation."
3.
And Planck explained what there is absolute in the physics:
a) The Law of conservation and transformation energy,.
b) The negative 4D continuum,
c) The speed of light quanta,
d) The maximum entropy which is possible
at temperature of absolute zero: T=0K.
==.
I think that these four Planck's points are foundation of science.
=.
socratus
The secret of God and Existence is hidden
in the ' Theory of Vacuum and Light Quanta' .
j_lowe
Posts: 23
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2/10/2013 7:46:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/5/2013 5:13:24 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
Carl Sagan said this:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Thoughts? Comments?

I posted this somewhere else the other day but it fits here too...

I think that mankinds fascination with truth is very telling here...

We are all on this website talking about what is true to the best of our conceptions. We are all trying to find out what is true, and trying to convince everyone else of what it is we found. Sagan apparently placed a high value on truth...

Why do we do this?
Why did Sagan think truth was important?
Why do I desire truth?

Scientific Rational answer:

"In infinite space, in infinite time, infinitely small particles change their forms in infinite complexity, and when you have under stood the laws of those mutations of form you will understand why you have desires."

The problem with science is the sequence of cause and effect only works when you talk about material phenomena.

It is only necessary for experimental science to introduce a question of value for it to become nonsensical.

Yet, truth is universally valued by people. This value people place on truth is something that science cannot explain adequately.

The whole reason anyone even cares about science is because they are looking for truth. But science cannot, and will not be able to answer the question why should I care about truth.

In other words science cannot answer the question "why should I care about science?"

Therefore it is irrational to care about science, and irrational to care about truth.

I would rather believe in God, It makes more sense :)
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/10/2013 9:09:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:06:26 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 8:13:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.

Where in my post did I take any positon on anything. You are delusional. You read things that arent there. Now show me the conclusive proof which all scientists agree upon using the scientific method showing the origin of the universe and how it came to be.

You were respoonding to a Carl Sagan quote, the quote was:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Did you really not know what you were replying too? You really can't connect the dots?

Please post source, or news article putting this age old question to rest once and for all.

I'm sorry, but if you can't understand the relationship between a single sentence quote and your reply to it, I'm thinking that trying to understand "the origin of the universe and how it was created" just isn't for you.

Um you and your good buddy Carl Sagan Presume to know conclusively everything there is to know about the universe. That is delusion of the highest order. Why don't you tell me what it is that I think about the universe, as you can obviously read my mind. Many things sound good on paper, You can do things on paper that are impossible in reality. The fact that you take everything on blind faith written on paper about the universe is delusion of the highest order. What would you know about the universe except what someone else told you. I see no difference in that and another person beliving in god. You didn't actually confirm anything you have been told personally, you just hope you aren't being lied to by the most deceitful, misleading, lying life form animal on the planet. I reserve both possibilities, I will find out soon enough and so will you. I can assure you I live in a life of reality that surpasses yours by factors of ten. I have no faith in man. I have faith that there is something better than me and smarter than me, it isn't you or my fellow man that you can be sure of. What a waste of purpose and life that would be. To one day be as smart and successful as say Barney Frank or any other man that you would put upon a pedestal.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/10/2013 9:45:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/10/2013 9:09:29 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:26 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 8:13:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.

Where in my post did I take any positon on anything. You are delusional. You read things that arent there. Now show me the conclusive proof which all scientists agree upon using the scientific method showing the origin of the universe and how it came to be.

You were respoonding to a Carl Sagan quote, the quote was:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Did you really not know what you were replying too? You really can't connect the dots?

Please post source, or news article putting this age old question to rest once and for all.

I'm sorry, but if you can't understand the relationship between a single sentence quote and your reply to it, I'm thinking that trying to understand "the origin of the universe and how it was created" just isn't for you.

Um you and your good buddy Carl Sagan Presume to know conclusively everything there is to know about the universe.

Nope, nobody said that, especially not me or Crl Sagan, we only said truth is better than delusion and you disagreed.

That is delusion of the highest order.

Nope, I go with truth, you are the one arguing for delusion, stop projecting.

Why don't you tell me what it is that I think about the universe, as you can obviously read my mind.

That's another elusion, I suppose you find it comforting.

Many things sound good on paper,

Even on paper, your postulate that delusion is better than truth sounds stupid.

You can do things on paper that are impossible in reality. The fact that you take everything on blind faith written on paper about the universe is delusion of the highest order.

Well, of course I don't take everything I read on blind faith, if I did that I would have believed your innane argument that delusion is better than truth when I read it.

What would you know about the universe except what someone else told you.

Well, it's where I live and move and have my being, so I think I know something about it.

I see no difference in that and another person beliving in god.

So what, I'm a devout beiever in God, that doesn't mean I don't think truth is better than delusion.

You didn't actually confirm anything you have been told personally, you just hope you aren't being lied to by the most deceitful, misleading, lying life form animal on the planet.

You think truth is bad and delusion is good because Carl sagan said otherwise and he is "the most deceitful, misleading, lying life form animal on the planet", wow, youare really good at this delusion thing, no wonder you prefer it over truth.

I reserve both possibilities, I will find out soon enough and so will you. I can assure you I live in a life of reality that surpasses yours by factors of ten.

Seriously doubt it, I'm a faithful beliver who champions truth, I don't belive favoring delusion makes for a tenfold better life.

I have no faith in man. I have faith that there is something better than me and smarter than me, it isn't you or my fellow man that you can be sure of. What a waste of purpose and life that would be. To one day be as smart and successful as say Barney Frank or any other man that you would put upon a pedestal.

What the hell does Barney Frank have to do with it?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
KroneckerDelta
Posts: 36
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2/10/2013 12:32:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/10/2013 9:09:29 AM, sadolite wrote:
Many things sound good on paper, You can do things on paper that are impossible in reality. The fact that you take everything on blind faith written on paper about the universe is delusion of the highest order. What would you know about the universe except what someone else told you. I see no difference in that and another person beliving in god.

Please tell me this is just a troll being ironic. Many things sound good on paper, hmmm? What does this remind me of?

Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, "Go, throw yourself into the sea," and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Luke 17:6
6 He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, "Be uprooted and planted in the sea," and it will obey you.

Mark 11:22-24
22 "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. 23 "Truly[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, "Go, throw yourself into the sea," and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

I agree, some things do look very good on paper! But of course, you cannot do them in real life!
KroneckerDelta
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/11/2013 7:54:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/10/2013 9:45:32 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/10/2013 9:09:29 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:26 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/8/2013 8:13:52 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/8/2013 7:55:25 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/5/2013 5:42:38 PM, sadolite wrote:
What would he know about the universe? He never even went to the moon. Everything he thaught about the universe and to this day are "assumptions" based on very very very very very very very limited information. History is filled with Carl Sagans' who have been wrong about everything. Nothing has changed in this respect either.

You disagree that the truth is better then delusion?

Now it's time for someone tell me that they know as absolute fact the origin of the universe and how it was created.

I don't see why, it seems now would be the time for you to tell us why you favor delusion over seeing things as they really are.

Where in my post did I take any positon on anything. You are delusional. You read things that arent there. Now show me the conclusive proof which all scientists agree upon using the scientific method showing the origin of the universe and how it came to be.

You were respoonding to a Carl Sagan quote, the quote was:

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Did you really not know what you were replying too? You really can't connect the dots?

Please post source, or news article putting this age old question to rest once and for all.

I'm sorry, but if you can't understand the relationship between a single sentence quote and your reply to it, I'm thinking that trying to understand "the origin of the universe and how it was created" just isn't for you.

Um you and your good buddy Carl Sagan Presume to know conclusively everything there is to know about the universe.

Nope, nobody said that, especially not me or Crl Sagan, we only said truth is better than delusion and you disagreed.

That is delusion of the highest order.

Nope, I go with truth, you are the one arguing for delusion, stop projecting.

Why don't you tell me what it is that I think about the universe, as you can obviously read my mind.

That's another elusion, I suppose you find it comforting.

Many things sound good on paper,

Even on paper, your postulate that delusion is better than truth sounds stupid.

You can do things on paper that are impossible in reality. The fact that you take everything on blind faith written on paper about the universe is delusion of the highest order.

Well, of course I don't take everything I read on blind faith, if I did that I would have believed your innane argument that delusion is better than truth when I read it.

What would you know about the universe except what someone else told you.

Well, it's where I live and move and have my being, so I think I know something about it.

I see no difference in that and another person beliving in god.

So what, I'm a devout beiever in God, that doesn't mean I don't think truth is better than delusion.

You didn't actually confirm anything you have been told personally, you just hope you aren't being lied to by the most deceitful, misleading, lying life form animal on the planet.

You think truth is bad and delusion is good because Carl sagan said otherwise and he is "the most deceitful, misleading, lying life form animal on the planet", wow, youare really good at this delusion thing, no wonder you prefer it over truth.

I reserve both possibilities, I will find out soon enough and so will you. I can assure you I live in a life of reality that surpasses yours by factors of ten.

Seriously doubt it, I'm a faithful beliver who champions truth, I don't belive favoring delusion makes for a tenfold better life.

I have no faith in man. I have faith that there is something better than me and smarter than me, it isn't you or my fellow man that you can be sure of. What a waste of purpose and life that would be. To one day be as smart and successful as say Barney Frank or any other man that you would put upon a pedestal.

What the hell does Barney Frank have to do with it?

How do you know you are being told the truth?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/11/2013 8:09:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/11/2013 7:54:40 PM, sadolite wrote:

How do you know you are being told the truth?

I don't, but when it corresponds to reality, I tend to consider it to be true.

How do you know that a delusion isn't true?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/13/2013 7:10:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/11/2013 8:09:16 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/11/2013 7:54:40 PM, sadolite wrote:

How do you know you are being told the truth?

I don't, but when it corresponds to reality, I tend to consider it to be true.

How do you know that a delusion isn't true?

Can we clarify something, It is your "assertion" that I am taking a "pro position" in the belief of a creator. As I stated before I am taking "no position" I am open to all possibilities including that of a creator as the complexity of life gives it some credence and evolution is possible to. What I am doing is questioning your unwavering faith in man. The most deceptive, purposely misleading, lying, cheating, do anything or say anything to justify the means, snake oil selling form of life in the known universe. Also I keep all possibilities open because if I were to choose your perspective that would mean I would have to be a condescending ahole and call other people "delusional" that don't prescribe to your unwavering belief in man and his "assumptions" about the universe based of very very very very very limited information. The laws of physics I can test. The origin, the pupose, how it all started? Not much faith in mans knowledge about that. It is an unanswered question that is no closer to being solved since Einstein wrote his mathematical genius.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/13/2013 7:21:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find it curious that Einstein wrote all of his mathematical equations in the what seams impossible short time frame of just "one year" and wrote nothing else of any consequence after that. To this day nothing new has come out to even come close. I just find that to be well "Unbelievable" that he didn't have some help.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/13/2013 9:54:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 7:21:20 PM, sadolite wrote:
I find it curious that Einstein wrote all of his mathematical equations in the what seams impossible short time frame of just "one year" and wrote nothing else of any consequence after that. To this day nothing new has come out to even come close. I just find that to be well "Unbelievable" that he didn't have some help.

Oh pulease, 1905 was a astounding year, no doubt, but he remained prolific for decades after that, 11 years later I'd hardly call the General Theory of Relativity "nothing else of any consequence".
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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2/14/2013 9:13:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/13/2013 9:54:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/13/2013 7:21:20 PM, sadolite wrote:
I find it curious that Einstein wrote all of his mathematical equations in the what seams impossible short time frame of just "one year" and wrote nothing else of any consequence after that. To this day nothing new has come out to even come close. I just find that to be well "Unbelievable" that he didn't have some help.

Oh pulease, 1905 was a astounding year, no doubt, but he remained prolific for decades after that, 11 years later I'd hardly call the General Theory of Relativity "nothing else of any consequence".

Ok then. Science sure does suck at understanding "human nature" There is only one book ever written that understands it perfectly. I wonder how long it will take scientists to catch up to it. Science can understand the universe but the scientists cant understand and predict simple human nature. They get it wrong every time. That's why history endlessly repeats itself. I guess science is "delusional" when it comes to man and human nature.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
KroneckerDelta
Posts: 36
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2/14/2013 9:24:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/14/2013 9:13:11 PM, sadolite wrote:
Ok then. Science sure does suck at understanding "human nature" There is only one book ever written that understands it perfectly. I wonder how long it will take scientists to catch up to it. Science can understand the universe but the scientists cant understand and predict simple human nature. They get it wrong every time. That's why history endlessly repeats itself. I guess science is "delusional" when it comes to man and human nature.


I don't totally disagree with this, but how is it a knock against science? Science is attempting, through psychology, to understand human nature. Is it conclusive? No, not even close--in fact, I think psychology and more importantly neuroscience is still in its infancy. I do agree that science tends to be "delusional" about human nature. The delusion is in thinking that you can persuade humans through reasoning and evidence.
KroneckerDelta
sadolite
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2/15/2013 5:32:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/14/2013 9:24:31 PM, KroneckerDelta wrote:
At 2/14/2013 9:13:11 PM, sadolite wrote:
Ok then. Science sure does suck at understanding "human nature" There is only one book ever written that understands it perfectly. I wonder how long it will take scientists to catch up to it. Science can understand the universe but the scientists cant understand and predict simple human nature. They get it wrong every time. That's why history endlessly repeats itself. I guess science is "delusional" when it comes to man and human nature.


I don't totally disagree with this, but how is it a knock against science? Science is attempting, through psychology, to understand human nature. Is it conclusive? No, not even close--in fact, I think psychology and more importantly neuroscience is still in its infancy. I do agree that science tends to be "delusional" about human nature. The delusion is in thinking that you can persuade humans through reasoning and evidence.

Science fails at human nature because it attempts to treat everyone the same. Science has yet to this day succeeded in figuring out life isn't fair and that attempting to try and make it fair "always without fail" ends in disaster. No matter how much "evidence and reason" you provide to them, The scientific community will never get it. Not now not ever. We as a society will repeat this over and over and over and it will fail again and again and agin. With the so called greatest scientific minds the whole world has ever known leading the way.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%