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Life Beyond Our Dimensions

FREEDO
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2/25/2013 2:45:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
My brain began gnawing on the grassy fibers of an idea earlier today. Nothing I hadn't thought about before. But I felt like drawing more attention to it.

It's the idea that lifeforms exist among us in dimensions that we do not perceive. Which, you may note, is different than a discussion about whether it's possible for biological functions to exist on higher levels of dimensional space, which there would be no reason to deny. Rather, it asks whether, in relation to our perceptual understanding of space, there are beings passing around and even, at times, right through us. However, if they were, they certainly wouldn't see it that way. They'd simply be moving around us.

Let us assume that there are. Right away, a few obvious questions present themselves.
1. Do they interact with what we perceive as our world?
2. If so, is this theoretically measurable with our 3D instruments?
3. If they do not, why would that be?

Addressing number 3, an idea sprung to mind that our dimensions could, in a sense, be "submerged", "shadowed" or, in some way, have a wall built around them to prevent them from running into us. Much in the way we have walls in the 3D world.

This is an issue the more extreme conspiracy theorists seem to take very seriously, as extra-dimensional beings take center stage.

It brings to mind Carl Sagan's well-extrapolated talk on understanding extra dimensions.

This discussion can also be widened to the more broad discussion of how we know that other dimensions actually exist, which is never very well explained aside from claims of mathematical proof and direct perception through psychedelic experiences.
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fnord
Pennington
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2/25/2013 2:56:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 2:45:26 AM, FREEDO wrote:
My brain began gnawing on the grassy fibers of an idea earlier today. Nothing I hadn't thought about before. But I felt like drawing more attention to it.

It's the idea that lifeforms exist among us in dimensions that we do not perceive. Which, you may note, is different than a discussion about whether it's possible for biological functions to exist on higher levels of dimensional space, which there would be no reason to deny. Rather, it asks whether, in relation to our perceptual understanding of space, there are beings passing around and even, at times, right through us. However, if they were, they certainly wouldn't see it that way. They'd simply be moving around us.

Let us assume that there are. Right away, a few obvious questions present themselves.
1. Do they interact with what we perceive as our world?
2. If so, is this theoretically measurable with our 3D instruments?
3. If they do not, why would that be?

Addressing number 3, an idea sprung to mind that our dimensions could, in a sense, be "submerged", "shadowed" or, in some way, have a wall built around them to prevent them from running into us. Much in the way we have walls in the 3D world.

This is an issue the more extreme conspiracy theorists seem to take very seriously, as extra-dimensional beings take center stage.

It brings to mind Carl Sagan's well-extrapolated talk on understanding extra dimensions.

This discussion can also be widened to the more broad discussion of how we know that other dimensions actually exist, which is never very well explained aside from claims of mathematical proof and direct perception through psychedelic experiences.



It is interesting and should be taken seriously.
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Cody_Franklin
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2/25/2013 1:13:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think it depends on how you understand both higher dimensions and existence inside them. Mathematically--set theoretically, in particular--dimensions are really nothing but a system of coordinate-based location. So, three-space, for instance, is constructed as (x, y, z); higher dimensions, though we can't easily visualize them (or at all, really), can easily be constructed and manipulated by just adding another coordinate--(a, b, c, d). It's even possible to work with an infinite number of dimensions if one posits an infinitely-large set of coordinates. Often, the manifolds of these higher dimensions consist in lower-dimensional manifolds folded or bent back into themselves (consider the infinite permutations of the n-torus, for example) So, these dimensions "check out" mathematically, but I have no conception of what it would mean for something apart from geometric or topological constructs to "exist" in them.

Scientifically, the fourth dimension is often understood as a temporal dimension through which three-dimensional objects find themselves extended (making them four-dimensional objects, I suppose), so it's also unclear what it would mean for there to exist not only higher dimensions (and what their nature would be), but for there to exist in those dimensions some kind of life or entity.
tvellalott
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2/25/2013 5:06:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
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natoast
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2/25/2013 5:26:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I doubt that any higher dimensional being would be able to interact with us or notice us, because our 3D particles would have no 4D mass or volume, just like a 2D particle wouldn't have any 3D mass or volume. But what bothers me is if there is an infinite amount of dimensions where biological life forms can exist, why would we be stuck with the third one? Sure, each dimension should be equally likely, but what are the odds that we get a single digit one? It makes considering higher dimensions difficult, because the only fathomable reference dimension is the second one.
10inchclick
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2/25/2013 7:03:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 2:45:26 AM, FREEDO wrote:
My brain began gnawing on the grassy fibers of an idea earlier today. Nothing I hadn't thought about before. But I felt like drawing more attention to it.

It's the idea that lifeforms exist among us in dimensions that we do not perceive. Which, you may note, is different than a discussion about whether it's possible for biological functions to exist on higher levels of dimensional space, which there would be no reason to deny. Rather, it asks whether, in relation to our perceptual understanding of space, there are beings passing around and even, at times, right through us. However, if they were, they certainly wouldn't see it that way. They'd simply be moving around us.

Let us assume that there are. Right away, a few obvious questions present themselves.
1. Do they interact with what we perceive as our world?
2. If so, is this theoretically measurable with our 3D instruments?
3. If they do not, why would that be?

Addressing number 3, an idea sprung to mind that our dimensions could, in a sense, be "submerged", "shadowed" or, in some way, have a wall built around them to prevent them from running into us. Much in the way we have walls in the 3D world.

This is an issue the more extreme conspiracy theorists seem to take very seriously, as extra-dimensional beings take center stage.

It brings to mind Carl Sagan's well-extrapolated talk on understanding extra dimensions.

This discussion can also be widened to the more broad discussion of how we know that other dimensions actually exist, which is never very well explained aside from claims of mathematical proof and direct perception through psychedelic experiences.



Carl Sagan's explanation of higher dimensions is plane retarded. Two dimensional creatures with the ability to see do not exist.

The mind operates at a higher dimension. The mind is not 3 or 4th dimensional. The brain is 3 dimensional but the mind is a higher dimension, perhaps 5th.

The imagination is perhaps 6th dimension.
FREEDO
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2/25/2013 7:30:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 5:26:23 PM, natoast wrote:
I doubt that any higher dimensional being would be able to interact with us or notice us, because our 3D particles would have no 4D mass or volume, just like a 2D particle wouldn't have any 3D mass or volume.

Are you sure that's not due to the nature of 2D rather the entirety of dimensions?

But what bothers me is if there is an infinite amount of dimensions where biological life forms can exist, why would we be stuck with the third one? Sure, each dimension should be equally likely, but what are the odds that we get a single digit one? It makes considering higher dimensions difficult, because the only fathomable reference dimension is the second one.

That sounds like a case of confirmation bias. It's impossible for us to judge, with our current knowledge, what the chances of life existing in all dimensions is. So there's a default of 50/50. And if it is true that life exists in all dimensions, then life in 3D would have to exist, and it would be illogical for such life to assume that it's unlikely.
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fnord
FREEDO
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2/25/2013 7:32:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 7:03:10 PM, 10inchclick wrote:
Carl Sagan's explanation of higher dimensions is plane retarded. Two dimensional creatures with the ability to see do not exist.

It's a metaphor.

The mind operates at a higher dimension. The mind is not 3 or 4th dimensional. The brain is 3 dimensional but the mind is a higher dimension, perhaps 5th.

The imagination is perhaps 6th dimension.

The "mind" does not have any dimensions because it is not a physical thing, it's an abstract construct. The brain is 3D.
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fnord
1Devilsadvocate
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2/26/2013 12:21:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 2:45:26 AM, FREEDO wrote:
My brain began gnawing on the grassy fibers of an idea earlier today. Nothing I hadn't thought about before. But I felt like drawing more attention to it.

It's the idea that lifeforms exist among us in dimensions that we do not perceive. Which, you may note, is different than a discussion about whether it's possible for biological functions to exist on higher levels of dimensional space, which there would be no reason to deny. Rather, it asks whether, in relation to our perceptual understanding of space, there are beings passing around and even, at times, right through us. However, if they were, they certainly wouldn't see it that way. They'd simply be moving around us.

Let us assume that there are. Right away, a few obvious questions present themselves.
1. Do they interact with what we perceive as our world?
2. If so, is this theoretically measurable with our 3D instruments?
3. If they do not, why would that be?

Addressing number 3, an idea sprung to mind that our dimensions could, in a sense, be "submerged", "shadowed" or, in some way, have a wall built around them to prevent them from running into us. Much in the way we have walls in the 3D world.

This is an issue the more extreme conspiracy theorists seem to take very seriously, as extra-dimensional beings take center stage.

It brings to mind Carl Sagan's well-extrapolated talk on understanding extra dimensions.

This discussion can also be widened to the more broad discussion of how we know that other dimensions actually exist, which is never very well explained aside from claims of mathematical proof and direct perception through psychedelic experiences.



I have seen several talks on 4th dimension, but could never really grasp it fully.
I see how it could theoretically exist, but I cannot fathom what it is.
It's vastly different than 2 dimensions, because that just requires removing a dimension which I know of. But 4 dimensions, what is the forth dimension?
Is there any evidence whatsoever that there is a 4th, 5th, etc. dimension?
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lewis20
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2/26/2013 4:28:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Extensions of String theory say there are 11 dimensions right? I've always thought there was a connection between psychoactive drugs and other dimensions. Some drugs can alter our perception of time, so why couldn't drugs help us perceive another dimension.
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FREEDO
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2/26/2013 5:32:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 4:28:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Extensions of String theory say there are 11 dimensions right? I've always thought there was a connection between psychoactive drugs and other dimensions. Some drugs can alter our perception of time, so why couldn't drugs help us perceive another dimension.

Yes, 11 dimensions. But it's debated. The debate is usually between 10 and 11. I think the ten people just really want a rounded number rather than random ol' 11.

And many people report experiencing new dimensions on psychoactive drugs. I actually read a report someone gave of their experience with DMT which they said gave them dimensions that, were not only infinite, but had an inherent shape and movement to them, in some relation to spiraling fractals.
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fnord
Oryus
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2/26/2013 5:41:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 4:28:13 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Extensions of String theory say there are 11 dimensions right? I've always thought there was a connection between psychoactive drugs and other dimensions. Some drugs can alter our perception of time, so why couldn't drugs help us perceive another dimension.

I've thought that before too..... but only while I was on drugs so I can't really take myself seriously in that respect. :)
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lewis20
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2/26/2013 5:45:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ya I feel like there's a connection there which wouldn't be investigated by physicists. My buddy said while he was on DMT he lived an entire lifetime, while he only tripped for 5 minutes in 'real' time.
It'd really be interesting to see what somebody with advanced physics knowledge like Neil Degrasse Tyson, or someone similar, took away from a psychedelic experience.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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lewis20
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2/27/2013 1:27:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
We are so limited by our own perceptions, if a simple chemical can completely change the brains perception of a sense of time, who's to say it can't cause our senses to grasp another dimension. Like the video the apple can perceive an extra dimension that is completely incomprehensible to the paper, yet tripping allows you to experience things normally incomprehensible. But when its drug induced we assume its your brain making up something completely new, not you gaining an extra sense to something already present.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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FREEDO
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2/27/2013 1:30:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/26/2013 5:45:07 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Ya I feel like there's a connection there which wouldn't be investigated by physicists. My buddy said while he was on DMT he lived an entire lifetime, while he only tripped for 5 minutes in 'real' time.
It'd really be interesting to see what somebody with advanced physics knowledge like Neil Degrasse Tyson, or someone similar, took away from a psychedelic experience.

I contend that concepts like space and time are simply arbitrary concepts we impose towards a practical ends. We can talk about them in practical terms and have a rational discussion but, literally, they don't exist.

We can reveal this fact by altering our perception of consciousness. Making the previously unimaginable imaginable.

I think a lot of people who take psychedelics make a mistake. They think they are gaining knowledge about the universe. But that's not the point. Perceiving new dimensions does not prove that they exist. However, it does prove that the idea of dimensions is entirely relative. The wise psychonaut is one who acknowledges that the service of altering one's consciousness is not to gain knowledge but to lose it. Or rather, to perceive how it never existed in the first place.
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fnord
lewis20
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2/27/2013 1:42:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
That takes away the fun though, if you could advance physics through conscious altering drugs. If there is some greater connection out there, yet undiscovered, why not make the vain effort of discovering it. what good does it do to decide the explanation will forever be incomprehensible. How many times has that happened in history. As of now our perception of time and space might look like obscure constructs of our minds, but why not push for something more? It can't hurt can it?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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FREEDO
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2/27/2013 1:46:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 1:42:40 AM, lewis20 wrote:
That takes away the fun though, if you could advance physics through conscious altering drugs. If there is some greater connection out there, yet undiscovered, why not make the vain effort of discovering it. what good does it do to decide the explanation will forever be incomprehensible. How many times has that happened in history. As of now our perception of time and space might look like obscure constructs of our minds, but why not push for something more? It can't hurt can it?

You misunderstand my statement.

And there is nothing more fun than being FREEDO.
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fnord
lewis20
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2/27/2013 2:01:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 1:46:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/27/2013 1:42:40 AM, lewis20 wrote:
That takes away the fun though, if you could advance physics through conscious altering drugs. If there is some greater connection out there, yet undiscovered, why not make the vain effort of discovering it. what good does it do to decide the explanation will forever be incomprehensible. How many times has that happened in history. As of now our perception of time and space might look like obscure constructs of our minds, but why not push for something more? It can't hurt can it?

You misunderstand my statement.

And there is nothing more fun than being FREEDO.

I've always misunderstood other people, never the other way around. Maybe I should start experimenting with magick
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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Sidewalker
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2/27/2013 6:45:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 1:30:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/26/2013 5:45:07 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Ya I feel like there's a connection there which wouldn't be investigated by physicists. My buddy said while he was on DMT he lived an entire lifetime, while he only tripped for 5 minutes in 'real' time.
It'd really be interesting to see what somebody with advanced physics knowledge like Neil Degrasse Tyson, or someone similar, took away from a psychedelic experience.

I contend that concepts like space and time are simply arbitrary concepts we impose towards a practical ends. We can talk about them in practical terms and have a rational discussion but, literally, they don't exist.

We can reveal this fact by altering our perception of consciousness. Making the previously unimaginable imaginable.

I think a lot of people who take psychedelics make a mistake. They think they are gaining knowledge about the universe. But that's not the point. Perceiving new dimensions does not prove that they exist. However, it does prove that the idea of dimensions is entirely relative. The wise psychonaut is one who acknowledges that the service of altering one's consciousness is not to gain knowledge but to lose it. Or rather, to perceive how it never existed in the first place.

You believe that time, space, and consciousness do not exist.

That's an in tereting ontology you have there, does anything exist? If so, what?
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Cinco
Posts: 63
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2/27/2013 8:45:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 6:45:01 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/27/2013 1:30:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/26/2013 5:45:07 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Ya I feel like there's a connection there which wouldn't be investigated by physicists. My buddy said while he was on DMT he lived an entire lifetime, while he only tripped for 5 minutes in 'real' time.
It'd really be interesting to see what somebody with advanced physics knowledge like Neil Degrasse Tyson, or someone similar, took away from a psychedelic experience.

I contend that concepts like space and time are simply arbitrary concepts we impose towards a practical ends. We can talk about them in practical terms and have a rational discussion but, literally, they don't exist.

We can reveal this fact by altering our perception of consciousness. Making the previously unimaginable imaginable.

I think a lot of people who take psychedelics make a mistake. They think they are gaining knowledge about the universe. But that's not the point. Perceiving new dimensions does not prove that they exist. However, it does prove that the idea of dimensions is entirely relative. The wise psychonaut is one who acknowledges that the service of altering one's consciousness is not to gain knowledge but to lose it. Or rather, to perceive how it never existed in the first place.

You believe that time, space, and consciousness do not exist.

That's an in tereting ontology you have there, does anything exist? If so, what?

This FREEDO/Sidewalker exchange is interesting and has sparked a bit of clarity on my own definition of "does not exist". I want to change my definition to "is not as it appears to be" but that doesn't quite cover it. What about "is not ONLY as it appears to be"...this would give all of the various perspectives their due right to "exist", would it not? Plus, it would still allow for all perceived "elemental breakdowns" contained in the various views regarding the "building blocks of existence".

If man weren't so adversarial, thought would move a lot faster. Hmmm...on the other hand...it might create a glut of fascinating ideas and be a bit overwhelming. Ha!! Finally! A benefit to man's adversarial tendencies!!

A lot of thought took place between the first paragraph and the second - i.e. the second paragraph has nothing to do with the exchange, its participants or even the first paragraph. And it's not ADD. LOL! It really was the result of a perfectly logical, progression of thought - probably boring and definitely a bit whiny, toward the end. Do you suppose that might be what appears as ADD? Could it simply be a really fast progression of thought? A sort of "This holds the possibility of this, this, this and this. OK. Put a pin in that as I'm not interested, at the moment, but might be interested later. NEXT!" Still not ADD, however, with my mind sort of winding down and having just noticed the "check spelling" link, I am wondering why people care so much about something so petty but I came right back to what I was doing. Not sure if that would be ADD or not.
If your time, to you,
Is worth savin',
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone.
For the times they are a-changin'. - Bob Dylan
Cinco
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2/27/2013 9:30:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Regarding dimensions, I've always wondered why something like "inside/outside" isn't called dimensional. Not exactly "inside/outside" but more as an infinite sliding scale of perspectives according to "size" - like microscopic/macroscopic. Sort of. For instance, the view from our perspective and the view from the perspective of a molecule (with all of the views in between) and then the perspective of an atom, electron and smaller and smaller. And, of course, going up - a man, a society (mass consciousness?), a species (genetics), a planet, a solar system, galaxy and on and on. Perspectives from the various "sizes" would have their own environments, their own "speeds", their own "time frames", etc.. It is, after all, only an assumption that there can be no "consciousness" at other levels and there is no reason to assume that consciousness, itself, is only possible in "this" form...

I once dreamed of a "little" old man who was speaking to me about various interests and eventually explained that he only appeared "small" because he had to from a great perceptual "distance" for me to perceive him and he didn't want to overwhelm me. It was pretty wild (though, not drug induced) and "he" didn't claim to be God or anything like that. We were just talking about existence and I'm pretty sure we spoke of "time". I don't recall the entire conversation but we were talking about things that actually interest me and I still feel that I learned something about "time" that I can't quite remember. Something having to do with the "size" thing, though I don't think we actually spoke of "size", AS actual "size" - or as "we" perceive size. The terms used were different but I got the sense it was about a sort of "size without regard to space or mass" Of course, in an infinite universe, size really WOULDN'T matter. LOL! So a "sort of time", a "sort of size" and a "sort of distance", but not exactly.

What's my point? That if it is "dimensional", then it's all right here, right now, with the various "participants" sticking to our own little neighborhood.
If your time, to you,
Is worth savin',
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone.
For the times they are a-changin'. - Bob Dylan
SarcasticIndeed
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2/27/2013 1:57:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The way I eard it, these beings we cannot interract with are just vibrating on a lower/higher frequency, so we don't see them. Don't know anything about it, however.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
FREEDO
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2/27/2013 3:43:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 6:45:01 AM, Sidewalker wrote:
That's an in tereting ontology you have there, does anything exist? If so, what?

Nope.
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fnord
FREEDO
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2/27/2013 3:50:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 1:57:44 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
The way I eard it, these beings we cannot interract with are just vibrating on a lower/higher frequency, so we don't see them. Don't know anything about it, however.

Haha, you said vibrating.
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fnord
FREEDO
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2/27/2013 3:55:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 9:30:48 AM, Cinco wrote:

I once had a dream that a white light appeared to me and told me that I would die in my 30s in Zimbabwe stopping something terrible from happening. I thought it was God at the time, as I was Christian.

But that's ridiculous.

It was obviously Eris, Goddess of Chaos.
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fnord
chui
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2/28/2013 7:55:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/27/2013 1:57:44 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
The way I eard it, these beings we cannot interract with are just vibrating on a lower/higher frequency, so we don't see them. Don't know anything about it, however.

When I hear or read a statement like this it immediately makes me think what type of oscillation is meant, particles, objects, light? Then what frequencies are we talking about. Science has discovered lots of different types of oscillation over a huge range of frequencies from a few millihertz way up to Petahertz and beyond. What can possibly left and why have we not detected it. Why speculate about the infinite variety of things we cannot detect when there is masses of interesting things that we can see?

In summary:

Am I alone in being able to spot total tripe when I read it
lewis20
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2/28/2013 12:35:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 7:55:02 AM, chui wrote:
At 2/27/2013 1:57:44 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
The way I eard it, these beings we cannot interract with are just vibrating on a lower/higher frequency, so we don't see them. Don't know anything about it, however.

When I hear or read a statement like this it immediately makes me think what type of oscillation is meant, particles, objects, light? Then what frequencies are we talking about. Science has discovered lots of different types of oscillation over a huge range of frequencies from a few millihertz way up to Petahertz and beyond. What can possibly left and why have we not detected it. Why speculate about the infinite variety of things we cannot detect when there is masses of interesting things that we can see?

In summary:

Am I alone in being able to spot total tripe when I read it

Not a string theory fan I take it?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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socratus
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2/28/2013 10:08:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/25/2013 1:13:16 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I think it depends on how you understand both higher dimensions and existence inside them. Mathematically--set theoretically, in particular--dimensions are really nothing but a system of coordinate-based location. So, three-space, for instance, is constructed as (x, y, z); higher dimensions, though we can't easily visualize them (or at all, really), can easily be constructed and manipulated by just adding another coordinate--(a, b, c, d). It's even possible to work with an infinite number of dimensions if one posits an infinitely-large set of coordinates. Often, the manifolds of these higher dimensions consist in lower-dimensional manifolds folded or bent back into themselves (consider the infinite permutations of the n-torus, for example) So, these dimensions "check out" mathematically, but I have no conception of what it would mean for something apart from geometric or topological constructs to "exist" in them.

Scientifically, the fourth dimension is often understood as a temporal dimension through which three-dimensional objects find themselves extended (making them four-dimensional objects, I suppose), so it's also unclear what it would mean for there to exist not only higher dimensions (and what their nature would be), but for there to exist in those dimensions some kind of life or entity.
===============
About multi D - universe and reality.
My question is:
How did the idea of Multi Dimensions arise?
My answer is:
It began in 1907 when Minkowski tried to understand
SRT and invented 4-Dimensional negative spacetime
continuum ( some kind of multiverse ).
Nobody knows what Minkowski 4" D really is.
#.
Poor young Einstein, reading Minkowski interpretation,
said that now he couldn"t understand his own theory.
Th. Kaluza agreed with Einstein and in 1921 tried
to explain SRT using 5D space- ( another kind of multiverse )
This theory was tested and found insufficient.
"Well", said physicists and mathematicians, -
" maybe 6D, 7D, 8D, 9D, 11D or 27D spaces will explain it".
And they had done it.
But""". But there is one problem.
To create new D space, they must add a new parameter.
Because it is impossible to create new D space without
a new parameter.
And they take this parameter arbitrarily
(it fixed according to they opinion, not by objective rules).
The physicist, R. Lipin explained this situation in such way:
"Give me three parameters and I can fit an elephant.
With four I can make him wiggle his trunk""
To this Lipin"s opinion it is possible to add:
"with one more parameter the elephant will fly."
The mathematicians sell and we buy these theories.
Where are our brains? Where is the logic ?
#
If we don't know what 1+1 = 2
how can we know what 5+4 = 9 ?
And if we don't know what is 4-D negative Mincowski
how can we understand 11-D, 27-D. . . . . etc spaces ?
=========.
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. Socratus.
===="
#
Does God So Love the Multiverse?
/ By Don N. Page . /
http://arxiv.org...
The secret of God and Existence is hidden
in the ' Theory of Vacuum and Light Quanta' .
chui
Posts: 507
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3/1/2013 2:33:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Am I alone in being able to spot total tripe when I read it

Not a string theory fan I take it?

String theory helps match general relativity up to quantum physics and "predicts" the properties of known particles very well and also is one of the few viable theories that gives fundamental particles non zero volume. So it has a good basis in reality and could push physics forward to greater understanding

I am not against all theories that involve more than the dimensions we can directly perceive. Just those that have obviously been made up on the spot without any attempt to check that the theory matches up with known facts.

If more dimension exist why can we not "see" them. They would be nothing inherently special about them that would make them invisible to our eyes. String theorists take the view that the higher dimensions are tightly closed in very small loops, too small to see. This is reasonable.
chui
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3/1/2013 6:20:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nobody knows what Minkowski 4" D really is.

If relativity is correct we live in 4D space-time. So we do know what it is. Its what we live in.

If relativity is not correct then we do not know what 4D space-time is.

How do we decide if relativity is right or wrong?
Philosopher's would try argument. They throw words around. They use every day experience. But language is limited and imprecise and everyday experience does not include travel at high speed or strong gravity.
Science's answer would be to look for evidence from experiments. This is not perfect but is more objective. Sometimes science seems not to make sense to our brains, but there is nothing to say that the universe was meant to be understandable by a human mind.

Relativity does not require more than 4 dimensions or a multi-verse.