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Ocean forming in Africa

I-am-a-panda
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11/6/2009 8:45:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Apparently, Africa will split into two continents when a new ocean forms in the Sahara. Thoughts?

http://en.wikinews.org...
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/6/2009 5:58:43 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This is very interesting. It reminds me of what prophet Muhammad said about a sign of Day of Judgement:

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "The Hour will not begin until the land of the Arabs once again becomes meadows and rivers." Narrated by Muslim (157)

It seems that something like this and global warming will make the Arabian land become meadows and rivers again. Geologists have proven that Arabia in fact was once meadows and rivers, and that it will become like that once more, probably due to global warming.

I'm telling you this in order to show you why we Muslims follow Islam as much as we can. All these signs are strengthening our Faith, and that is why we fear God. (Note that when the Prophet [peace be upon him] predicted such things, he did not speak of his own knowledge, but verything was told to him by God, so that the prophet himself could expain it to us.)
Volkov
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11/6/2009 7:03:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Sorry to burst your bubble Mirza, but the Sahara is not Arabia. They're close to each other, but far from the same.

As well, there is zero indication of the Arabian Peninsula ever reforming itself back to "meadows and rivers." If anything, the state of desertification will get worse in the area.

Anyways, this entire "ocean in the Sahara" stuff isn't new. Geologists have known about the tearing-apart of the Great Rift Valley for ages. Its expected that within the next 5-10 thousand years, the possibility of it being wide enough for significant water intrusion will occur.

But, going all the way up to the Sahara?.... as far as I'm aware, the Sahara rests at a higher altitude than the Valley and most of East Africa, I'm guessing at least 20 m higher. I could be wrong, but it would take quite a lot of water before the Sahara even became slightly damp, at which point I suspect most of the known world will be underwater.
Mirza
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11/11/2009 10:46:48 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 11:25:32 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Mirza was DATCMOTO in a past life.
At least I don't believe that my ancestors were monkeys.
Mirza
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11/11/2009 10:58:58 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/6/2009 7:03:22 PM, Volkov wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble Mirza, but the Sahara is not Arabia. They're close to each other, but far from the same.
I know that, but both are desert-lands, and these kind of things apply to both of them because they are so similar.
As well, there is zero indication of the Arabian Peninsula ever reforming itself back to "meadows and rivers." If anything, the state of desertification will get worse in the area.
Please save me from non-researched opinions. Are you a geologist or something? Go to Saudi Arabia and make some research then find a computer you can reply to me on. Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the most famous geologists in the world, and he said that it is totally true that the Arabian Peninsula was once meadows and rivers, and that it will become so again. Global Warming makes the oceans rise, so don't you think it's a sign? Also, more rain will fall, so technically, it is 100% possible that the desert in Arabia becomes meadows and rivers again.
Volkov
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11/11/2009 3:47:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 10:58:58 AM, Mirza wrote:
Please save me from non-researched opinions. Are you a geologist or something? Go to Saudi Arabia and make some research then find a computer you can reply to me on. Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the most famous geologists in the world, and he said that it is totally true that the Arabian Peninsula was once meadows and rivers, and that it will become so again. Global Warming makes the oceans rise, so don't you think it's a sign? Also, more rain will fall, so technically, it is 100% possible that the desert in Arabia becomes meadows and rivers again.

a) I'm not a geologist, but I've lived with one my entire life

b) Kroner is well respected, and I never said Saudi Arabia wasn't once "meadows and rivers," but I highly doubt that there is any recent chance of it returning to that state simply because:

1b) all factors of desertification appear to be increasing the size of the Arabian desert, not decreasing, as this map shows the severe vulnerability of deserts encroaching into Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Turkey, etc. - http://upload.wikimedia.org...

2b) simply having rain fall means zero when the soil is so degraded that nothing can live, as this map shows: http://www.landfood.ubc.ca...

3b) the global cycle will more than likely cool before it gets too warm, which means that it will be more dry and cold, which is bad for rain and the return of "meadows and rivers"

c) nothing is "100% possible," because if it was 100%, it wouldn't be "possible," it would be assured.
Mirza
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11/13/2009 12:37:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Volkov, when oceans rise and more rain falls, there is a great possibility that the land of Arabs will turn from deserts to meadows and rivers. Also, nobody has said when it will turn into that, but that it surely will, and that there are several indications. Who knows how the climate is in 50-100 years?

Also, isn't it already miraculous enough that the beloved prophet knew that it once was meadows and rivers? It's just one of the many signs that he received knowledge from a divine being.

I'm confident that Global Warming (climate change) plays a role in this, but hopefully we will find out soon.
Volkov
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11/13/2009 4:56:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It isn't miraculous at all. It is called playing to the hopes of the plighted. It is what communists, anarchists and religious preachers do.
Mirza
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11/14/2009 9:24:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 4:56:20 PM, Volkov wrote:
It isn't miraculous at all. It is called playing to the hopes of the plighted. It is what communists, anarchists and religious preachers do.
Isn't it miraculous to you that it was known 14 centuries ago that the land of Arabs was once meadows and rivers? Also, the prophecies of the Qur'an have all been fulfilled stage by stage, and some of them are yet to come to light (i.e. Day of Judgement), so you think the one about the land of Arabs becoming meadows and rivers again will be unfulfilled? It surely won't. In Islam, every prophecy is true, and we know that due to all those that have been fulfilled. Regarding other religions, our beloved prophet commented on that saying that those who think they can look into the future make many guesses and get some of them right, which is completely true. I have yet to see any book or person make 100 predictions in the future with all of them being true, like with the Qur'an, where no prophecies are unfulfilled, but through 1,400 years prophecies have been fulfilled, and others have yet to come, and even the signs of them are evident. You can watch many YouTube videos about Qur'anic and authentic hadith prophecies being signs to the Day of Judgement. They all match with what is happening today. For example, there will be competitions on who can make the most tall/fascinating buildings, which is what we are witnessing today. That is one among numerous others.
Volkov
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11/14/2009 5:12:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/14/2009 9:24:52 AM, Mirza wrote:
Isn't it miraculous to you that it was known 14 centuries ago that the land of Arabs was once meadows and rivers?

No. Humans have lived throughout those lands for thousands of years. The history of the past gets handed down, generation to generation, until it comes to what it is today.

Also, the prophecies of the Qur'an have all been fulfilled stage by stage, and some of them are yet to come to light (i.e. Day of Judgement), so you think the one about the land of Arabs becoming meadows and rivers again will be unfulfilled?

Unsupported kookery.

It surely won't. In Islam, every prophecy is true, blah blah blah.....

Hm, yes, because never before in history was there competition between empires about who could build the grandest structures, and all the other stuff you said.

Mirza, you are aware that every thing you can possibly note can be easily attributed to the fact that these things were regular occurrences already in that land you think non-Muslims should be expelled from.
Mirza
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11/16/2009 4:32:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/14/2009 5:12:46 PM, Volkov wrote:
No. Humans have lived throughout those lands for thousands of years. The history of the past gets handed down, generation to generation, until it comes to what it is today.
Call Alfred Kroner or any other geologist who has been in Saudi Arabia, and get an answer on whether or not it will become meadows and rivers again. I wonder how you'll react if we in 20-30 years see that it turned out into meadows and rivers. Perhaps in 50 years, but anytime is always correct.

Unsupported kookery.
Describe an unflfilled prophecy. The Romans probably also though the Qur'an was wrong, until they were defeated, as the Qur'an prophecized.

Hm, yes, because never before in history was there competition between empires about who could build the grandest structures, and all the other stuff you said.
There was never a world-wide competition on who could construct her tallest buildings. Today, if Russia constructs the tallest, America will construct a taller, then Dubai will, and so forth.

Mirza, you are aware that every thing you can possibly note can be easily attributed to the fact that these things were regular occurrences already in that land you think non-Muslims should be expelled from.
You know what? The reason for why you do not want to believe in the miracles of the Qur'an is because you would realize they come from a divine being, which is the opposite of what you believe, I suppose.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/19/2009 4:02:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/16/2009 4:32:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/14/2009 5:12:46 PM, Volkov wrote:
No. Humans have lived throughout those lands for thousands of years. The history of the past gets handed down, generation to generation, until it comes to what it is today.
Call Alfred Kroner or any other geologist who has been in Saudi Arabia, and get an answer on whether or not it will become meadows and rivers again. I wonder how you'll react if we in 20-30 years see that it turned out into meadows and rivers. Perhaps in 50 years, but anytime is always correct.

Unsupported kookery.
Describe an unflfilled prophecy. The Romans probably also though the Qur'an was wrong, until they were defeated, as the Qur'an prophecized.

Hm, yes, because never before in history was there competition between empires about who could build the grandest structures, and all the other stuff you said.
There was never a world-wide competition on who could construct her tallest buildings. Today, if Russia constructs the tallest, America will construct a taller, then Dubai will, and so forth.

Mirza, you are aware that every thing you can possibly note can be easily attributed to the fact that these things were regular occurrences already in that land you think non-Muslims should be expelled from.
You know what? The reason for why you do not want to believe in the miracles of the Qur'an is because you would realize they come from a divine being, which is the opposite of what you believe, I suppose.

As you are unable to show a single one of these miracles can you please stop spouting what is by your own admission a complete pile of nonsense. Thanks.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mantis
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12/15/2009 10:29:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I came across this website by Googling it.

Now, the answer is yes. The Sahara will become an ocean again. This happens every 20,000 years. The last event was 10,000 years ago. This NOTHING to do with a "prophet" or someone's religion. The Earths wobble and tilt in it's axis is the cause of this phenomenon. The "Qu'ran" has NOT predicted anything. The "Qu'ran" has been re-written multiple times and so has it's prophecies. This is no different then any other religion.

These supposed "prophecies" that you claim have came true, are nothing more then; fFirstly, mere coincedences just like "Nostradamus". Also, these "prophecies" are all different depending on how a religion and individual interpret them.

People believe the world will end 2012 because the Myan Calender ends in that year. Do you really think they know the world will end then, or is it simply the case of them believing their own "theories" and they just stopped counting?

The Qu'ran is wrong! Nostradamus is wrong! The Myans are wrong! Y2K was wrong!
9/11 was not predicted by Nostradamus or by the Qu'ran. They predicted a possible event that stated no detailed facts about what happened. It is not difficult for me to make an educated guess that within the next 25 years, the middle east will fight itself again, all because the people are too ignorant! You all believe something different and you all think your right! Your all wrong.

We did not evolve from monkeys! However, the fact that our ancestors shared a similar DNA and bone structure make up leads scientists to conclude the possibility that this theory may be correct. Is it correct? You don't know, neither do I.

I do know that the tiny molecules and chemicals we are made of are clearly adaptations through millions of years of adversity and evolution of our species. The thought that some supreme being created us might be biased due to the fact that; if this is the case, that would not explain the molecules, and the human species ability to adapt and develop it's chemicals to combat disease's on it's own.

Also, a supreme being would not create new diseases magically out of thin air, the same diseases we are fighting today with medications because our bodies have not adapted to fight these off and therefore have not created the chemicals necessary to combat them.

The Sahara will be an ocean land again. This evidence is very clear due to old sediment deposits that have show this happening every 20,000 years like clockwork!
Also, more evidence is surprisingly. Cichlid fish being found in areas where water is scarce. These fish traveled across swampy conditions through thousands of years. These fish typically found in Lake Malawai, and also Lake Tangynika.

You can believe the Qu'ran if you want. The Qu'ran is wrong because these events have nothing to with religion! As we continue to evolve we are getting smarter and understanding why things occured and why events will occur in the future.

If you think it's a prophet or god making these events happen, you are wrong.
I choose not to be gullable! Religion has tried to combat science for years, and now more then ever religion is losing ground!

Also, the misinterpretation of the Muslim religion to it's extreme followers, Jihad, whatever. Is living proof of the Qu'ran being re-written, same with the Bible!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/15/2009 10:56:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/15/2009 10:29:54 PM, Mantis wrote:

If you think it's a prophet or god making these events happen, you are wrong.
I choose not to be gullable! Religion has tried to combat science for years, and now more then ever religion is losing ground!

Also, the misinterpretation of the Muslim religion to it's extreme followers, Jihad, whatever. Is living proof of the Qu'ran being re-written, same with the Bible!

Those exclamation points enhance your points well!
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/16/2009 11:16:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/15/2009 10:29:54 PM, Mantis wrote:
I came across this website by Googling it.
Welcome, take a seat. You're about to get owned.

I'm just kidding.
Now, the answer is yes. The Sahara will become an ocean again. This happens every 20,000 years. The last event was 10,000 years ago.
Okay, let's move on.

This NOTHING to do with a "prophet" or someone's religion. The Earths wobble and tilt in it's axis is the cause of this phenomenon. The "Qu'ran" has NOT predicted anything.
This is not about what causes what. It is about whether or not the prediction of the beloved Prophet will be true or not.

The "Qu'ran" has been re-written multiple times and so has it's prophecies. This is no different then any other religion.
Regarding any other religion, if I learn the Bible by heart, and recite it to a person who too knows the Bible by heart, we would argue about who is right, because we would say different things. That is why we have several versions of the Bible, some with 66 books, some with 73, and so forth. However, the Qur'an has 114 chapters, and there are no others with less or more. The Qur'an exists in Arabic only as one single version. Therefore, if you learn the Qur'an in Arabic, you will never ever see any recital on YouTube reciting what is different you what you know, and you will never hear any person anywhere in the world reciting anything that you do not know. If the Qur'an was changed, we would have several versions, like we have several versions of the Bible, or other religious books.

These supposed "prophecies" that you claim have came true, are nothing more then; fFirstly, mere coincedences just like "Nostradamus". Also, these "prophecies" are all different depending on how a religion and individual interpret them.
When the beloved Prophet was asked about this, he said that those predictors say tons of things, and get some of them right. Indeed, but the Qur'an too predicts tons of things, and 0% of them are wrong, rest have yet to be either fulfilled or unfulfilled.

Had it been changed, so would the Bible, but the Bible has tons of unfulfilled prophecies, so why didn't the Christians change them? In fact, Christians can change the Bible easily, but nobody can change the Qur'an. You can try it, and recite it to me anytime. I would immediately object to it. If you recite it correctly, I won't. Therefore, predictions in the Qur'an have never been "re-written" stories, or else we would have seen the same from all religions.

People believe the world will end 2012 because the Myan Calender ends in that year. Do you really think they know the world will end then, or is it simply the case of them believing their own "theories" and they just stopped counting?
Those groups of people predicted a lot, and perhaps got some things right. As the world ending in 2012, we will find out, right? But I don't believe in that, because God knows when this world will end.

The Qu'ran is wrong! Nostradamus is wrong! The Myans are wrong! Y2K was wrong!
So are you.

9/11 was not predicted by Nostradamus or by the Qu'ran. They predicted a possible event that stated no detailed facts about what happened. It is not difficult for me to make an educated guess that within the next 25 years, the middle east will fight itself again, all because the people are too ignorant! You all believe something different and you all think your right! Your all wrong.
Predicting something with logic is easy. I can also "predict" that you will eat something for the rest of 2009, otherwise you will die. That's simple logic. However, predicting something thousands of years in the future, where things are much different, and people have changed, without getting anything wrong, is not something you can do with simple logic.

We did not evolve from monkeys! However, the fact that our ancestors shared a similar DNA and bone structure make up leads scientists to conclude the possibility that this theory may be correct. Is it correct? You don't know, neither do I.
I know, and you know. We believe we know what is right, and our beliefs are different.

I do know that the tiny molecules and chemicals we are made of are clearly adaptations through millions of years of adversity and evolution of our species. The thought that some supreme being created us might be biased due to the fact that; if this is the case, that would not explain the molecules, and the human species ability to adapt and develop it's chemicals to combat disease's on it's own.
Actually, things like this actually bring evidence that God exists. Our body being so advanced proves that there must have been someone who could program us to live and fight diseases until time of departing death. Why don't we see people aged 1,000? We know that humans live in a fair amount of time, enough to live and fight diseases etc., and to finally die. What is not meant to die immediately is here for such a long time, e.g. the sun. Which force makes it last for millions of years? Why then do normal living beings not last for so long either? Because we are designed that way.

Also, a supreme being would not create new diseases magically out of thin air, the same diseases we are fighting today with medications because our bodies have not adapted to fight these off and therefore have not created the chemicals necessary to combat them.
That does not disprove God. God created diseases for us, in order to test us, or to end our lives at a specific time. For instance, many people are hypocrites, but that can only be seen if they suffer. A man is happy and calls himself a Muslim, and says he believes in God etc., but when he suffers, he says, "Why is this happening to me? Why does God do this?" and suddenly stops believing. Diseases/calamities are here to place a distinction between truth and falsehood. Similarly, some people actually start believing when a calamity befalls them, because they keep believing in God throughout their suffering, and do not lose hope. That is why the beloved Prophet said that most people in Paradise will be poor the ones who were poor in this life.

You can believe the Qu'ran if you want. The Qu'ran is wrong because these events have nothing to with religion! As we continue to evolve we are getting smarter and understanding why things occured and why events will occur in the future.
Your claim that the Qur'an is wrong "because these events have nothing to do with religion" does not make sense. The Qur'an is right for several reasons. Some of them are so miraculous that some people (especially scientists) who read one point actually convert to Islam. The Qur'an predicted tons of things, like the fall of the Roman Empire. It also tells us things that science has recently discovered. Discovery Channel mentioned that iron was sent from the outer space, which is something that was discovered not so long ago. However, who could have known that 14 centuries ago? The Qur'an mentions it.

First of all, the core of Earth is in the center, as we know. It is made of iron. There is an entire chapter in the Qur'an called "iron", and it is chapter number 57. There are 114 chapters in the Qur'an. It means that the middle is 57, which is exactly the one called "iron". Furthermore, the chapter says:

[Qur'an 57:25] "... And we sent down the iron, in which there is strength and many benefits for the people…"

When read, especially in Arabic, we know that this means God sent iron down from the above, which is the outer space. Moreover, it says that there are many benefits.

Now after verse 25, God "confirms" his proof, i.e. Revelation.

[Qur'an 57:26] "And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors."

(Continuing...)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/16/2009 11:42:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
In the periodic table, "iron" is placed as number 26. Now from verse 1 to 25 in chapter 57 (iron), God is mentioned for the 26th time in that chapter, exactly in verse 25, where God said that He sent iron.

[Qur'an 57:25] "... And we [God] sent down the iron, in which there is strength and many benefits for the people…"

Zebras are identified by their strips, humans by their fingertips, and the elements like iron by their Atomic Mass and Number. When God mentions Himself for the 26th time in the verse where He says that He sent down iron, and iron being number 26 in the periodic table, this cannot be a coincidence.

Furthermore, iron has the Atomic Mass of "56", when rounded up (55.845). The number of the chapter in the Qur'an is 57. Before that chapter, there are 56 others. Center of the Qur'an, center of the Earth. Miraculously, iron having an Atomic Mass of 56, and being the core of the Earth, also the chapter being in front of 56 others before it in the Qur'an, is miraculous.

Also, there are many other scientific miracles, as well as mathematical, and this one contains both. One other example is the word "man" being mentioned 23 times in the Qur'an, and the word "woman" being mentioned 23 times too, all equally, and the sum is "46" which it the total number of chromosomes both men and women have, 23 from he father, 23 from the mother.

Of course, mathematical miracles are not as miraculous as the scientific ones. But they also are very interesting, even if looking from graphs, like this one:

http://www.themodernreligion.com... -> "The Holy Qur'an"-> "Hidden Message in the Number of Suras"

That to me cannot be something from any human being.
Sylux
Posts: 290
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12/16/2009 12:05:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/11/2009 10:46:48 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/10/2009 11:25:32 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Mirza was DATCMOTO in a past life.
At least I don't believe that my ancestors were monkeys.

Ack!
I've been slain!
"Can you see? Do you know?
The string behind you, it's shiny and pretty.
Where is my string.
Give me because I don't know.
Give me your string.
Give me everything."
-grasshoppa
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/17/2009 5:14:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/16/2009 11:42:54 AM, Mirza wrote:
In the periodic table, "iron" is placed as number 26. Now from verse 1 to 25 in chapter 57 (iron), God is mentioned for the 26th time in that chapter, exactly in verse 25, where God said that He sent iron.

lol If you just look long and hard enough the "prophetic truths" just jump out at you don't they.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/17/2009 5:15:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/16/2009 11:42:54 AM, Mirza wrote:

Furthermore, iron has the Atomic Mass of "56", when rounded up (55.845). The number of the chapter in the Qur'an is 57. Before that chapter, there are 56 others. Center of the Qur'an, center of the Earth. Miraculously, iron having an Atomic Mass of 56, and being the core of the Earth, also the chapter being in front of 56 others before it in the Qur'an, is miraculous.

lol it gets better
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/17/2009 7:38:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/16/2009 11:42:54 AM, Mirza wrote:

Furthermore, iron has the Atomic Mass of "56", when rounded up (55.845). The number of the chapter in the Qur'an is 57. Before that chapter, there are 56 others. Center of the Qur'an, center of the Earth. Miraculously, iron having an Atomic Mass of 56, and being the core of the Earth, also the chapter being in front of 56 others before it in the Qur'an, is miraculous.

1. Why is it miraculous and not a coincidence.

2. Why iron?

3. Where are the other elements?

3. Where is the connection to center of book and the Earth beside some flight of fantasy zomg!?

4. Why is this fantastical when all this was discovered by scientists in different fields of study over several decades, which some Muslim then had to piece together in an amusingly trite manner at the end then go SEE WE DIDN'T KNOW IT UNTIL OTHERS TOLD US THEN UM LIKE WE HAD IT HERE ALL ALONG IN SECREEEEEEEEEEET CODES WE HAD NO WAY OF UNDERSTANDING.

5. If it's so miraculously and whoa why didn't Allah just go, 'that iron stuff it's right below you deep down and these numbers are important! Here is why.'

6.Why does Allah need to round up imprecisely?

7. How many other secret codes do you think there are in other books that seem whoa prophesy but really aren't (clue: it's a lot)?

8. You are aware there have been revisions right? >.<

9. No don't reply, these questions are largely rhetoric in nature, and we can just all agree that you won't change you view no matter anything here voiced. :)
Mantis
Posts: 7
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12/18/2009 12:37:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
LoL. You are a confused person, I do feel sorry for you....

Firstly, I dont give a flying phuck what you seem to think is some weird coincedence or random sequence of numbers you can come up with. If you stare at numbers long enough you can figure out something coincedental. The #26 has no relevance on anything. The teachings and study's of Pschology by some of the smartest men to have ever walked this Earth has proven time and time again that religion has more hindsight biased involved then science. Why? Because there is actual proof!

I am sorry there is no prophet, there is no man sitting on a flying carpet waiting to come down and smite thee. The teachings of the Qu'Ran, as written from a Muslim follower herself. Nonie Darwish here's an exerpt from her book:

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child. Consummating the marriage by 9.

The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.
Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce.

To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and he does not have to say why he has beaten her.

The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his
discretion. The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman.

So, who gets owned? The man believing in a religion that deems itself as pedophiles? Or the man that can back up science with proof?

Now, who's right? You, or her? Why would a supposed follower of your religion put you on point like this, if it wasnt perceived as wrong? If it weren't perceived as wrong, then why would there be people that have issues with it's morality?

You can preach what you want to preach, you can believe what you want to believe.
This topic was about the Sahara Desert being an ocean floor. This event was not predicted by anybody. It was a naturally occuring event. It's been proven, and it's been proven it will happen again when the Earths tilt and axis change. The tilt and axis changing has nothing to do with religion, its about gravitational pull. Which is why the moon changes tide levels at different times, it's really no different. Your prophet didnt create the moon, nore did he create gravitational pull.

I can debunk your Qu'Ran all day long.

If you or anybody walked up to me and gave me a copy of the Qu'Ran.
I will, with no hesitation pull down my pants, and schit on it! Then i'll light it on fire.
Mantis
Posts: 7
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12/18/2009 12:49:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
P.S.

The periodic table was created in 1869 by Dmitri Mendeleev, who isnt even Muslim.
Your trying to find coincedence in your religion that was written thousands of years ago, through a periodic table that was was created 150 years ago?

WoW, the more and more you supposedly recite from the Qu'Ran the more and more I smell bullschit. Being that you are looking at the periodic table of numbers to confirm your beliefs, tells me that you have no clue.

Wake up and smell the sunshine. Your the same type of person who looked at the periodic table when 9/11 happened and said "OOOOO, its a conspiracy"!

Knowing that you look into the periodic table for confirmation of your theories and supposed prophecies. I know now, that there isnt a single shred of evidence you could provide to prove a single thing.

You keep thinking it's gonna rain meatballs. KOOKOO
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/22/2009 3:26:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/17/2009 7:38:42 AM, Puck wrote:
1. Why is it miraculous and not a coincidence.
That's obviously the only thing you can come up with. Coincidence; do you know what it is? In fact, if you knew how many of such things are mentioned in the Qur'an, I doubt you'd call it all coincidences.

2. Why iron?
God mentions that He sent it from outer space, which is proved by science. Moreover, He mentions that it has many benefits for mankind. We know that iron is being used for a lot of things.

3. Where are the other elements?
Those are very weak questions. Why isn't the Qur'an 115 chapters long, and not 114? Why isn't this mentioned, and not that? What do you want the Qur'an to be, infinite? It mentions what is mostly important. And why did you write 9 points and not 20?

5. If it's so miraculously and whoa why didn't Allah just go, 'that iron stuff it's right below you deep down and these numbers are important! Here is why.'
Because as time passes, more signs are revealed to us, and it strengthens our Faith. As I find out more and more about these things, I become more amazed.

Now, you ask why God just didn't say it right away. He did when he said that He sent it from outer space. He also said that He is the one who keeps expanding the universe. He said that the sun and the moon swim through the universe, which is also true; the sun does not stand still.

[Qur'an 55:5] "The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed"

And there are extremely many others.

6.Why does Allah need to round up imprecisely?
To make it more sufficient?

7. How many other secret codes do you think there are in other books that seem whoa prophesy but really aren't (clue: it's a lot)?
There are many prophecies in other books, some are true, some are false. The Qur'an has predicted a lot of things, and none are unfulfilled

8. You are aware there have been revisions right? >.<
Do you want to discuss that? Something I've explained tons of times? If you think there have been revisions, then why don't you try to revise it and see how it goes? Why don't you think Christians haven't got a holy book free of errors and contradictions? Full of scientific miracles? Why? Why not the Hindu and Sikh scriptures? Do you think Muslims only did it? It amuses me. Why don't you try to be a Catholic for a few moments and come here to Denmark, and recite some chapters and see what a priest here will tell you? But be a Muslim and go wherever you are, and recite whatever you want of the Qur'an in Arabic, and tell me if a single soul has objected to it.

9. No don't reply, these questions are largely rhetoric in nature, and we can just all agree that you won't change you view no matter anything here voiced. :)
Yes, we can. Why don't we also agree that you won't change your view no matter what is being told? Do you think you're right? You can believe you're a monkey, Puck, but don't try to make me look like one.
Mirza
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12/22/2009 4:16:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 12:37:25 PM, Mantis wrote:
LoL. You are a confused person, I do feel sorry for you....
You can feel whatever you want.

Firstly, I dont give a flying phuck what you seem to think is some weird coincedence or random sequence of numbers you can come up with. If you stare at numbers long enough you can figure out something coincedental. The #26 has no relevance on anything. The teachings and study's of Pschology by some of the smartest men to have ever walked this Earth has proven time and time again that religion has more hindsight biased involved then science. Why? Because there is actual proof!
Science and religion go along. Any established scientific fact on Earth does not contradict the Qur'an.

I am sorry there is no prophet, there is no man sitting on a flying carpet waiting to come down and smite thee. The teachings of the Qu'Ran, as written from a Muslim follower herself. Nonie Darwish here's an exerpt from her book:
Let's move on.

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child. Consummating the marriage by 9.
I've explained that marriage with Aisha, so read the other threads.

Now, marrying a one year old is allowed? Who told you that? How can you marry someone who does not have the capability of saying yes or no? And what kind of parents would let a one year old marry anybody, even another child of the same age? And you call religion biased?

The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.
This is propaganda, nothing else. The Qur'an never says that a woman is a man's slave. It says that a man is the head of a house, because he is the one who must work to earn food, and solve problems, whilst the woman cooks, takes care of children, and so forth. This is not slavery.

Many women in the West are being slaves. They are used in commercials [almost naked] so that men can stay focused, they are being used as prostitutes, and they want to kill themselves if they don't look well. Do you know that? They are like prisoners who have to look good in order to be with someone and be recognized as normal human beings. The Qur'an does not want this for women. It protects them.

Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce.
Nonsense. Why don't you come with Qur'anic verses as evidence? Why don't you think that divorce is not a sin? In fact, do you know that there is an entire chapter in the Qur'an called "divorce"?! Besides, divorce is not a sin, but it is the most hated thing in the sight of God that is permitted.

To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry.
Sorry, CNN =/= Qur'an.

What you say about 4 witnesses is not true.

[Qur'an 24:6] "And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth; (7)And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie. (8)But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie; (9)And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth."

Is this 4 witnesses? It says that a woman must swear an oath that she is telling the truth, if she does not have witnesses. Witnesses are only recommended, to make sure that a woman is telling the truth, but it is in no way an obligation.

[Qur'an 24:10] "If it were not for Allah's grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft-Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed)."

The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and he does not have to say why he has beaten her.
That is murder. Islam is strictly against it. Honor killing is not Islamic, it is something made up. Killing any Muslim for being raped is wrong, and plain murder. You also have no evidence to support your claim.

Regarding man beating wife, he is not allowed to hurt her, and it's not called "beating". If she is very unpleasant to be with, and does not want to do anything to her husband and children, then the man should try to convince her that what she is doing is wrong, and he can "light" beat her, which means that he is not allowed to hurt her that she cries, or gets blood, or has pain. This is as if you had children and wanted them to behave properly. As for a woman not being allowed to do this, it is simply because men are generally stronger and it can anger them if women hurt them in any way.

As I said, beating is not the right word, and a man is not allowed to hurt her so much that she gets in a worse state than bad behavior [i.e. crying, having pain etc.].

Besides, what I see happening in Western countries is horrific. Women treat their husbands as if they were random men. They don't want to do anything to them. Of course not all women, but many. I can't imagine having a wife being like that.
The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his
discretion. The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman.
You know the Shari'a punishment for adultery? It's capital punishment. Do you think a Muslim is allowed to commit that sin then? Where do you get that information? Prostitution is so much prohibited that I don't even have to speak about it. "Temporary wife" -- What is that? Who are you trying to fool?

As for four wives, it is completely normal. If all the women agree on it, then what is wrong? Isn't it like for homosexual couples, where both parties agree? Also, if a man treats any of his wives unfairly, he is sinning by marrying them.

[Qur'an 4:3] "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."

Besides this, there are more and more women than men in the world. Plural marriage can be the solution if they want to get married in the future.
Mirza
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12/22/2009 4:16:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 12:37:25 PM, Mantis wrote:
So, who gets owned? The man believing in a religion that deems itself as pedophiles? Or the man that can back up science with proof?
Which proof did you come with?

Now, who's right? You, or her? Why would a supposed follower of your religion put you on point like this, if it wasnt perceived as wrong? If it weren't perceived as wrong, then why would there be people that have issues with it's morality?
Are you taking about disagreements between Muslims on what is sin and what is not?

You can preach what you want to preach, you can believe what you want to believe.
I do, and so can you.

This topic was about the Sahara Desert being an ocean floor.
Yes, you obviously couldn't stick to that.
This event was not predicted by anybody. It was a naturally occuring event. It's been proven, and it's been proven it will happen again when the Earths tilt and axis change. The tilt and axis changing has nothing to do with religion, its about gravitational pull. Which is why the moon changes tide levels at different times, it's really no different. Your prophet didnt create the moon, nore did he create gravitational pull.
This has nothing to do with a prediction. It does not matter why the land of Arabs will be meadows and rivers. The point is that it will be, not why. Can't you get it? Naturally occurring, so what? Do you want it to be meadows and rivers in one single day with magic? Of course it's a natural process, but one predicted by God, nobody else.

I can debunk your Qu'Ran all day long.
You tried, but failed.

If you or anybody walked up to me and gave me a copy of the Qu'Ran.
I will, with no hesitation pull down my pants, and schit on it! Then i'll light it on fire.
Are you the one I should discuss with? One with no respect, morals, and manners? I don't have to give you a copy of the Qur'an. I'd rather give you an example of how it is to be a person with respect. Burning a religious book, is that what you want to do?

And you know what? If you or anybody else gave me a copy of "The Origin of Species", I'd go to the nearest Zoo and laugh along with a monkey.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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12/22/2009 4:17:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/22/2009 3:26:20 AM, Mirza wrote:

That's obviously the only thing you can come up with. Coincidence; do you know what it is? In fact, if you knew how many of such things are mentioned in the Qur'an, I doubt you'd call it all coincidences.

No, I do. It's a coincidence. A crackpot code. A one amongst many, search for meaningless clues to meaningless 'hidden' numerological messages in a multitude of books. There is nothing special about finding codes in books. The 'discoverer' had to include the bismallah as a verse to even make it fit.


2. Why iron?
God mentions that He sent it from outer space, which is proved by science. Moreover, He mentions that it has many benefits for mankind. We know that iron is being used for a lot of things.

No no. WHY Iron. That's a post explanation hacked onto to explain the crackpot code. Why iron and not carbon? Why not a metallurgical formula for steel? Why not any other number of multitudinous possible useful pieces of information?

Those are very weak questions. Why isn't the Qur'an 115 chapters long, and not 114? Why isn't this mentioned, and not that? What do you want the Qur'an to be, infinite? It mentions what is mostly important. And why did you write 9 points and not 20?

Nope not at all. If it was important it wouldn't need to be hidden in lame codes to be discovered and applied post findings to others in an attempt to give some credibility to the collected rants and stolen passages of a desert illiterate. Why is iron of *the* import?

Now, you ask why God just didn't say it right away. He did when he said that He sent it from outer space.

Even if given (spurious in and of itself, the word in question is 'anzalna' also used to mean 'we created' [2 verses]) it means absolutely nothing to the point that it is a simple obscure point of Islamic theology given absurd significance to the ignorance of something that may have actually been useful and important.

In fact iron, although present in meteors, is not the sole source of. Persian, Islamic writers/mythos however favour tales of meteoric iron.

He also said that He is the one who keeps expanding the universe.

Word in question is 'moosi-oon' also used as "making things plentiful"; " capable"; "make spacious" <- the one you refer to: is a later (ambiguous) translation, whereas in the tafseers, the alternatives are preferred. In fact the word in your context "make spacious" is used to describe abundance in food, money etc., and not space. To use the word as 'expand' is an erroneous translation, most likely to propagate the very thing you just said.

He said that the sun and the moon swim through the universe, which is also true; the sun does not stand still.

Another allegorical nonsense piece fit to post knowledge in an attempt to wow. Where does it say "orbit"?

"The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed"

lol. Citing Sura 55:5 that states it is calculated does not prove it *was* calculated.*

Instead it 'sciences us' that the sun travels to the end of space, returns back, and rests in muddy spring within the earth.

And there are extremely many others.

Bring them on.

To make it more sufficient?

Allah is error laden? Allah needs to make concessions? Allah needs to make imperfect claims? Allah needs to provide falsities?


7. How many other secret codes do you think there are in other books that seem whoa prophesy but really aren't (clue: it's a lot)?

There are many prophecies in other books, some are true, some are false. The Qur'an has predicted a lot of things, and none are unfulfilled.

Lol. A statement even if later proved =/= a prophecy. An ambiguous statement applied post event =/= prophecy. A claim not fulfilled is not evidence of any veridical nature of the claim. At all.

8. You are aware there have been revisions right? >.<

Do you want to discuss that? Something I've explained tons of times? If you think there have been revisions, then why don't you try to revise it and see how it goes?

Why should I be interested? Others were and did. That's the point.

Why don't you think Christians haven't got a holy book free of errors and contradictions?

I do. Check my profile, it will give you a handy shortcut. :P

Full of scientific miracles? Why? Why not the Hindu and Sikh scriptures? Do you think Muslims only did it? It amuses me.

Sure, want to debate those too. I've read them as well. Think your religion is special in any way? Nope.

Why don't you try to be a Catholic for a few moments and come here to Denmark, and recite some chapters and see what a priest here will tell you?

I was raised Catholic, what's your point. :)

But be a Muslim and go wherever you are, and recite whatever you want of the Qur'an in Arabic, and tell me if a single soul has objected to it.

You did mention Denmark.. seen the news in Switzerland lately?

Yes, we can. Why don't we also agree that you won't change your view no matter what is being told?

Incorrect. I have no standing bias to not accept claims. I take them on individual merit. The burden however lies squarely within your camp as I'm not prone to faith. Blame Allah on designing brains that way, I don't really care. :)

Do you think you're right?

Yup, until you show contrary.

You can believe you're a monkey, Puck.

Whatever gives you that idea? Is this another I don't understand evolution, all atheists must believe in evolution things?

but don't try to make me look like one.

If you fail, you do it on your own merit, on the strength of your claims, your position, your belief structure. I'm just here to light the way. :)
Mirza
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12/22/2009 4:20:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 12/18/2009 12:49:00 PM, Mantis wrote:
The periodic table was created in 1869 by Dmitri Mendeleev, who isnt even Muslim.
Your trying to find coincedence in your religion that was written thousands of years ago, through a periodic table that was was created 150 years ago?
The periodic table shows the atomic mass etc. of different elements. It doesn't matter when it was made. What matters is that iron has its own unique atomic mass, and the Qur'an shows it. Just because the periodic table wasn't existing before 1800 does not mean that iron didn't have the atomic mass of 56.

Wake up and smell the sunshine. Your the same type of person who looked at the periodic table when 9/11 happened and said "OOOOO, its a conspiracy"!
I believe in the conspiracy theory. Do you have anything against it? At least I don't believe in a terrorist, war criminal like George Bush.

Knowing that you look into the periodic table for confirmation of your theories and supposed prophecies. I know now, that there isnt a single shred of evidence you could provide to prove a single thing.
I've provided much more scientific evidence than you. Where is yours?

You keep thinking it's gonna rain meatballs. KOOKOO
You keep thinking I'm going to fall for your claims without evidence. Think again.