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de-extinction being considered

philochristos
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3/31/2013 12:39:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd be totally jazzed if they made a mammoth.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

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Skepsikyma
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3/31/2013 12:41:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is it bad that I'm more excited about giant ferns than dinosaurs?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
muzebreak
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3/31/2013 12:43:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:41:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Is it bad that I'm more excited about giant ferns than dinosaurs?

A little.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Skepsikyma
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3/31/2013 12:47:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:43:23 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:41:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Is it bad that I'm more excited about giant ferns than dinosaurs?

A little.

Just think how cool a carboniferous forest would be in a conservatory. Minus the giant centipedes and dragonflies. Unless you're into that sort of thing.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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3/31/2013 12:52:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can't believe my life just became the start of a horror movie. Quick, tell me all the obvious mistakes people in horror movies make so I can avoid them!
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popculturepooka
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3/31/2013 12:55:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:41:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Is it bad that I'm more excited about giant ferns than dinosaurs?

No.

Haven't people seen Jurassic Park?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
cybertron1998
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3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Skepsikyma
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3/31/2013 12:59:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

I feel old.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Lordknukle
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3/31/2013 1:00:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dodo bird ftw!
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
AlbinoBunny
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3/31/2013 1:01:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:00:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Dodo bird ftw!

Yes, they may make a close to perfect farm animal. Dose cuuute iggle tings!
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Skepsikyma
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3/31/2013 1:03:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:00:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Dodo bird ftw!

I want these even more:
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
cybertron1998
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3/31/2013 1:03:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:59:24 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

I feel old.

no i mean the setting of the movies was in the 1980s
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
thett3
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3/31/2013 1:04:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is awesome, the more animal species brought back to life, the more animal species I might have the opportunity to eat
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/31/2013 1:07:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:03:47 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:59:24 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

I feel old.

no i mean the setting of the movies was in the 1980s

...no it wasn't.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
cybertron1998
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3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Skepsikyma
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3/31/2013 1:09:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And once we have moas...
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Maikuru
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3/31/2013 1:23:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:55:09 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:41:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Is it bad that I'm more excited about giant ferns than dinosaurs?

No.

Haven't people seen Jurassic Park?

lol I was about to make this exact post. Seriously, dude, nothing that can kill us. That's just dumb.
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Skepsikyma
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3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
cybertron1998
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3/31/2013 1:30:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.

if its bearing down its going at a straight line won't need good aim
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/31/2013 1:33:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
t rex versus an apache full stocked
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/31/2013 1:42:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm pretty sure I remember a while back scientists saying there is no usable dinosaur DNA so cloning dinosaurs is impossible and everyone being sad.

Mammoths and dodos are my votes.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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3/31/2013 1:43:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:33:39 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
t rex versus an apache full stocked

The apache helicopter: the only thing more powerful than a young boy's wish on christmas eve.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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3/31/2013 1:52:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.

You know, you just need a hunter with proper hunting rifle and you can take down even the Rex himself. You don't actually need modern military to fight off the dinosaur at all, Tank, Missile, or even M-16 is ineffective to such role (the former is obviously unable to be deployed in forest, the latter can't penetrate the thick skin of wild animal).

I read some of the literature about the hunter who have been hunting elephant or rhino. He said, the most important thing to know if you are going face to face with this kind of animals, is to have a proper hunting-grade rifle that is specially designed to be used against this kind of animal. And aim for their brain or spine, not the hearth. Because animal like this have a very good vitality, even if you crushed their hearth, they will still charge at you, which might kill you in the process.

So apparently, technology isn't what is lacked in Jurassic Park, it is the skill and equipment that let them in to such state -_-
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/31/2013 2:00:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:52:40 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.

You know, you just need a hunter with proper hunting rifle and you can take down even the Rex himself. You don't actually need modern military to fight off the dinosaur at all, Tank, Missile, or even M-16 is ineffective to such role (the former is obviously unable to be deployed in forest, the latter can't penetrate the thick skin of wild animal).

I read some of the literature about the hunter who have been hunting elephant or rhino. He said, the most important thing to know if you are going face to face with this kind of animals, is to have a proper hunting-grade rifle that is specially designed to be used against this kind of animal. And aim for their brain or spine, not the hearth. Because animal like this have a very good vitality, even if you crushed their hearth, they will still charge at you, which might kill you in the process.

So apparently, technology isn't what is lacked in Jurassic Park, it is the skill and equipment that let them in to such state -_-

The problem generally with bringing apex predators back to life is that they were better at hunting than we are. It's not that they have super-thick skin, steel-hard bones or can take us out in a one-on-one duel, out in the open with all of our technology available to us. It's that in the wild, dangerous places in the world, on their turf, we don't stand much of a chance. They're stealthier than us, faster than us, and are generally adapted perfectly to hunt and kill. And that, deprived of their usual foodstuffs, predators will sometimes turn to hunting people. A boomstick and crappy eyesight isn't going to cut it if you never see them coming. That's why I generally find the resurrection of giant raptors like the Haast's Eagle, or small, intelligent dinosaurs like velociraptors, to be a more dangerous proposition than that of a big, lumbering, T-Rex.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/31/2013 2:05:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:00:57 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:52:40 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.

You know, you just need a hunter with proper hunting rifle and you can take down even the Rex himself. You don't actually need modern military to fight off the dinosaur at all, Tank, Missile, or even M-16 is ineffective to such role (the former is obviously unable to be deployed in forest, the latter can't penetrate the thick skin of wild animal).

I read some of the literature about the hunter who have been hunting elephant or rhino. He said, the most important thing to know if you are going face to face with this kind of animals, is to have a proper hunting-grade rifle that is specially designed to be used against this kind of animal. And aim for their brain or spine, not the hearth. Because animal like this have a very good vitality, even if you crushed their hearth, they will still charge at you, which might kill you in the process.

So apparently, technology isn't what is lacked in Jurassic Park, it is the skill and equipment that let them in to such state -_-

The problem generally with bringing apex predators back to life is that they were better at hunting than we are. It's not that they have super-thick skin, steel-hard bones or can take us out in a one-on-one duel, out in the open with all of our technology available to us. It's that in the wild, dangerous places in the world, on their turf, we don't stand much of a chance. They're stealthier than us, faster than us, and are generally adapted perfectly to hunt and kill. And that, deprived of their usual foodstuffs, predators will sometimes turn to hunting people. A boomstick and crappy eyesight isn't going to cut it if you never see them coming. That's why I generally find the resurrection of giant raptors like the Haast's Eagle, or small, intelligent dinosaurs like velociraptors, to be a more dangerous proposition than that of a big, lumbering, T-Rex.

some of our soldiers are also trained to kill true in a forest environment the velociraptor or haast eagel would win but if you brought it to cities like the ones marines and black ops operatives are trained to work with we would most likely win
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/31/2013 2:07:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:05:01 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:00:57 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:52:40 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.

You know, you just need a hunter with proper hunting rifle and you can take down even the Rex himself. You don't actually need modern military to fight off the dinosaur at all, Tank, Missile, or even M-16 is ineffective to such role (the former is obviously unable to be deployed in forest, the latter can't penetrate the thick skin of wild animal).

I read some of the literature about the hunter who have been hunting elephant or rhino. He said, the most important thing to know if you are going face to face with this kind of animals, is to have a proper hunting-grade rifle that is specially designed to be used against this kind of animal. And aim for their brain or spine, not the hearth. Because animal like this have a very good vitality, even if you crushed their hearth, they will still charge at you, which might kill you in the process.

So apparently, technology isn't what is lacked in Jurassic Park, it is the skill and equipment that let them in to such state -_-

The problem generally with bringing apex predators back to life is that they were better at hunting than we are. It's not that they have super-thick skin, steel-hard bones or can take us out in a one-on-one duel, out in the open with all of our technology available to us. It's that in the wild, dangerous places in the world, on their turf, we don't stand much of a chance. They're stealthier than us, faster than us, and are generally adapted perfectly to hunt and kill. And that, deprived of their usual foodstuffs, predators will sometimes turn to hunting people. A boomstick and crappy eyesight isn't going to cut it if you never see them coming. That's why I generally find the resurrection of giant raptors like the Haast's Eagle, or small, intelligent dinosaurs like velociraptors, to be a more dangerous proposition than that of a big, lumbering, T-Rex.

some of our soldiers are also trained to kill true in a forest environment the velociraptor or haast eagel would win but if you brought it to cities like the ones marines and black ops operatives are trained to work with we would most likely win

Which is why such predators would never set up shop, so to speak, in a human city. We would essentially be making the wild areas of the world much more dangerous to us. Not to mention disrupting their ecosystem.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/31/2013 2:24:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 2:07:30 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:05:01 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 2:00:57 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:52:40 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:27:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:09:05 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/31/2013 1:06:45 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:57:53 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
we've seen jurassic park but that movie was set in the 1980s or something the weapons we have now would easily take down a trex

........................................................................................

ok show me a trex flipping an M1 Abrams

I don't think we want to test this. Or are you willing to see if a rocket launcher can reliably take out a Haast's Eagle as it bears down on you at 50 mph? I hope you have impeccable aim.

You know, you just need a hunter with proper hunting rifle and you can take down even the Rex himself. You don't actually need modern military to fight off the dinosaur at all, Tank, Missile, or even M-16 is ineffective to such role (the former is obviously unable to be deployed in forest, the latter can't penetrate the thick skin of wild animal).

I read some of the literature about the hunter who have been hunting elephant or rhino. He said, the most important thing to know if you are going face to face with this kind of animals, is to have a proper hunting-grade rifle that is specially designed to be used against this kind of animal. And aim for their brain or spine, not the hearth. Because animal like this have a very good vitality, even if you crushed their hearth, they will still charge at you, which might kill you in the process.

So apparently, technology isn't what is lacked in Jurassic Park, it is the skill and equipment that let them in to such state -_-

The problem generally with bringing apex predators back to life is that they were better at hunting than we are. It's not that they have super-thick skin, steel-hard bones or can take us out in a one-on-one duel, out in the open with all of our technology available to us. It's that in the wild, dangerous places in the world, on their turf, we don't stand much of a chance. They're stealthier than us, faster than us, and are generally adapted perfectly to hunt and kill. And that, deprived of their usual foodstuffs, predators will sometimes turn to hunting people. A boomstick and crappy eyesight isn't going to cut it if you never see them coming. That's why I generally find the resurrection of giant raptors like the Haast's Eagle, or small, intelligent dinosaurs like velociraptors, to be a more dangerous proposition than that of a big, lumbering, T-Rex.

some of our soldiers are also trained to kill true in a forest environment the velociraptor or haast eagel would win but if you brought it to cities like the ones marines and black ops operatives are trained to work with we would most likely win

Which is why such predators would never set up shop, so to speak, in a human city. We would essentially be making the wild areas of the world much more dangerous to us. Not to mention disrupting their ecosystem.

going off of the movie a dinosaur would likely travel to the city. just lay out a hypothesis based off the movie.

1) whoever came from said dinosaur preserve either intentionally or unintentionally steal an egg.

2) dinosaur mother (most likely a predator) gets pissed the h3ll off

3) dinosaur mother follows people on to ship

4) chase in city starts

5) military comes

6) dinosaur gets gunned down
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.