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Why do we kiss?

Wallstreetatheist
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5/4/2013 3:15:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
---A brief overview of the research---

Baby monkeys: were separated from their mothers at birth and were kept in cages with two "mothers". One mother was just a soft, cuddly wooden statue covered in a blanket while the other was a robot that gave the monkeys food.
Scientists thought that the monkeys would be most attached to the robots since they gave out food BUT when they scared the monkeys with a crazy spazzing toy, the monkeys hid behind the wooden statue mother and wouldn"t leave its side.

Baby ducklings: were in a line following their mother while having bursts of air shot at them. If they tried to go back to the mother duck, they"d keep having air blown at them. After that ordeal, it was found that the ducklings were more attached to their mother than before.

Puppies: were put into 3 different groups. Group 1- were treated kindly by the researcher. Group 2- were punished for making any positive approaches to the researcher. Group 3- were treated kindly or in a mean way randomly. It was this third group that grew most attached and dependent on the researcher, because they never knew what to expect.
"This suggests that stress, including the mental stress of uncertainty, is an ingredient in attachment or love and perhaps even manifestations of hatred (its polar opposite) somehow enhance love." [Reference]

From hearing about these experiments I guess I came to a few conclusions:
-Animals, probably humans too, would rather cling to a source of comfort when in fear, rather than things essential for survival (food, shelter, clothing, etc).
-After drama or an event that almost tears you and someone close to you apart, the bond between you guys is stronger.
-We are all the "third group of puppies", the ones that are confused and never know what to expect in life. We always have to accept life as it is or the past as it was because there"s nothing we can do about it.
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Wnope
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5/4/2013 4:52:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 3:15:40 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
---A brief overview of the research---

Baby monkeys: were separated from their mothers at birth and were kept in cages with two "mothers". One mother was just a soft, cuddly wooden statue covered in a blanket while the other was a robot that gave the monkeys food.
Scientists thought that the monkeys would be most attached to the robots since they gave out food BUT when they scared the monkeys with a crazy spazzing toy, the monkeys hid behind the wooden statue mother and wouldn"t leave its side.

Baby ducklings: were in a line following their mother while having bursts of air shot at them. If they tried to go back to the mother duck, they"d keep having air blown at them. After that ordeal, it was found that the ducklings were more attached to their mother than before.

Puppies: were put into 3 different groups. Group 1- were treated kindly by the researcher. Group 2- were punished for making any positive approaches to the researcher. Group 3- were treated kindly or in a mean way randomly. It was this third group that grew most attached and dependent on the researcher, because they never knew what to expect.
"This suggests that stress, including the mental stress of uncertainty, is an ingredient in attachment or love and perhaps even manifestations of hatred (its polar opposite) somehow enhance love." [Reference]

From hearing about these experiments I guess I came to a few conclusions:
-Animals, probably humans too, would rather cling to a source of comfort when in fear, rather than things essential for survival (food, shelter, clothing, etc).
-After drama or an event that almost tears you and someone close to you apart, the bond between you guys is stronger.
-We are all the "third group of puppies", the ones that are confused and never know what to expect in life. We always have to accept life as it is or the past as it was because there"s nothing we can do about it.

There is one rather fascinating detail to the monkey experiment that adds some complexity to the equation.

Although researchers found that baby monkeys preferred the 'cuddle mom" to the 'feeding mom" and showed better signs of health, when they grew older, these same monkeys ENTIRELY lacked what we like to call "maternal instinct."

They were aggressive and/or negligent of their offspring. That means the offspring grow up having experienced extremely negative parenting styles which will translate to how they nurture their offspring.

I hesitate to link stress to a "healthy romantic relationship." Yes, it bonds two people together, but the same mechanism is behind bonding of hostages and their hostage takers. Adaptive? Largely. The bond is increased because the organism sees its safety as in the hands of the other. That makes it quite reasonable to forgo individual attempts at food, those who feel helpless become more dependent (imagine the evolutionary consequences of newborns who would prefer to strike out on their own for food as opposed to making sure the mother likes it enough to feed it and nurture it).

Is the bond indicative of the relationship's healthiness or should we assume it will increase healthiness? Not so much.

I especially think this is so since attachment styles are learned early. Humans who grow up with constantly positive attachment may react badly when they are adults to partners who act inconsistently.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/4/2013 11:38:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 4:52:23 PM, Wnope wrote:
Although researchers found that baby monkeys preferred the 'cuddle mom" to the 'feeding mom" and showed better signs of health, when they grew older, these same monkeys ENTIRELY lacked what we like to call "maternal instinct."

They were aggressive and/or negligent of their offspring. That means the offspring grow up having experienced extremely negative parenting styles which will translate to how they nurture their offspring.

That's interesting. I wonder if their offspring's offspring parenting fared better.

I hesitate to link stress to a "healthy romantic relationship." Yes, it bonds two people together, but the same mechanism is behind bonding of hostages and their hostage takers.

I think you are referencing Stockholm Syndrome, which occurs when hostages or victims perceive a lack of abuse as an act of kindness. It's a psychological phenomenon that I think has distinctions from the kind/cruel stress attachment in the puppy experiment. According to the FBI, "roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome" whereas evidence of the kind/cruel stress attachment is a more general principle of human psychology.
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Wallstreetatheist
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5/4/2013 11:42:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As a side note, I'm reading the fantastic book The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley. I recommend it highly. If you want a copy for your Kindle or computer, PM me your email.
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sadolite
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5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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5/5/2013 10:11:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 3:14:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It shuts her up.
+1
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

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lewis20
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5/5/2013 10:37:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/4/2013 3:14:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It shuts her up.
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AlbinoBunny
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5/6/2013 7:13:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM, sadolite wrote:
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.

Evidence?
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sadolite
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6/6/2013 7:11:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/6/2013 7:13:22 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM, sadolite wrote:
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.

Evidence?

You actually need evidence?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
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6/6/2013 7:23:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:11:37 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:13:22 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM, sadolite wrote:
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.

Evidence?

You actually need evidence?

Like I said two people did it one time and it caught on. The reasons have changed thru out history. The origin is most likly chewing up food for babies and spitting it into their mouths.
But you can be sure the origin of the kiss has nothing to do with erotics and pleasure
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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6/9/2013 5:17:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/6/2013 7:11:37 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:13:22 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM, sadolite wrote:
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.

Evidence?

You actually need evidence?

Yes, or else there is no reason to believe that the case holder's case is true.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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6/9/2013 8:09:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why do we toss salad?
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sadolite
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6/10/2013 2:47:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 5:17:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:11:37 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:13:22 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM, sadolite wrote:
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.

Evidence?

You actually need evidence?

Yes, or else there is no reason to believe that the case holder's case is true.

Some much for believing in common sense, Ggven the vast amount of knowledge that already exists on the subject. You still need it proved to you.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/10/2013 6:40:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/10/2013 2:47:11 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/9/2013 5:17:50 PM, emospongebob527 wrote:
At 6/6/2013 7:11:37 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/6/2013 7:13:22 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/5/2013 8:32:19 AM, sadolite wrote:
Why do we kiss? Two people did it along time ago and it just caught on. Kissing is not instinctual it is learned behavior.

Evidence?

You actually need evidence?

Yes, or else there is no reason to believe that the case holder's case is true.

Some much for believing in common sense, Ggven the vast amount of knowledge that already exists on the subject. You still need it proved to you.

Just some evidence, would be nice. I wouldn't call it "common sense" either.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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6/10/2013 7:12:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 8:09:44 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Why do we toss salad?

You've probably seen that episode of South Park.
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ClassicRobert
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6/10/2013 7:21:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The main conclusion that I drew was that we get bored if things are too easy.
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