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evidence against evolution?

drhead
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5/15/2013 4:59:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
No. There are a few ways to disprove evolution (quoted from RationalWiki: http://rationalwiki.org... ):

- If it could be shown that mutations do not occur.

Good luck with this one.

- If it could be shown that, although mutations do occur, they are not passed down through the generations.

Again, good luck with this one.

- If it could be shown that, although mutations are passed down, no mutation could produce the sort of phenotypic changes that drive natural selection.

Once again, good luck.

- If it could be shown that selection or environmental pressures do not favor the reproductive success of better adapted individuals.

If you can't show the last one, there's no chance you'll show this one.

- If it could be shown that even though selection or environmental pressures favor the reproductive success of better adapted individuals, "better adapted individuals" (at any one time) are not shown to change into other species.

This is the only one you'd have any chance of disproving. But, once again - good luck! If you manage this, please share your Nobel Prize with me. Or keep it for yourself. It's your choice.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/15/2013 10:17:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Pretty mush impossible. It is certainly possible that mutation can occurred, and can be pass down from generation to generation.

I rather point that the lack of empirical evidence in human evolution is enough to disregard the fact that evolution is absolute. Say, it is possible that our physical appearance had never changed at all, only the knowledge was evolved and make what is us today, any traces of evolution might simply be a "natural coincidence" rather than an actual evidences. They never witness any apes that turn in to hairless, sapiens species anyway.
suttichart.denpruektham
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5/15/2013 11:13:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 10:25:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
What specifically?

Common descent?
Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes?
Speciation?

err what?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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5/15/2013 11:28:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 11:13:47 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/15/2013 10:25:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
What specifically?

Common descent?
Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes?
Speciation?

err what?

These are different concepts within evolutionary biology:

Common descent? - The idea that all evolutionary paths in a group can be traced back to the same source. Universal common descent is the idea that all life came from a single source.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes? - Basically observable changes due to evolution.

Speciation? - This is more tricky, since 'species' itself is an imperfect concept, but it is the event of a new species being formed.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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5/15/2013 11:34:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 10:17:13 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Pretty mush impossible. It is certainly possible that mutation can occurred, and can be pass down from generation to generation.

I rather point that the lack of empirical evidence in human evolution is enough to disregard the fact that evolution is absolute. Say, it is possible that our physical appearance had never changed at all, only the knowledge was evolved and make what is us today, any traces of evolution might simply be a "natural coincidence" rather than an actual evidences. They never witness any apes that turn in to hairless, sapiens species anyway.

Actually, the main thing in a theory is being falsifiable. Theories can't be proven outright, so they must be falsifiable. This means that it must be able to be tested in such a way that it could be proven false. For example, look at the theory of spontaneous generation. It states that life just pops out of nowhere in the right conditions. It states that maggots will appear on rotting meat. This might be a sound conclusion from observation. However, if I could make a piece of rotting meat not produce maggots, the theory would be proven false. So, if I put 3 chunks of rotting meat in jars, close one, leave one open, and put cheesecloth over the third, and find that there are only maggots in the open jar, I would disprove this theory.

Now, look at Russel's Teapot. It states that there is a magical, invisible teapot floating around in space somewhere. This theory can't be falsified, since there is no way to observe the absence of something (much less the absence of an unobservable object). Generally speaking, theories are only useful for what they disallow. Conveniently, disallowing things makes it easy to test and falsify a theory.

If you wanted a theory of creationism, you would have to show how it can be disproven. Not by disproving it, but by showing what points, if disproven, would make the theory fall apart.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
v3nesl
Posts: 4,466
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5/16/2013 1:24:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 9:24:47 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
is there any at all?

I dunno, is there any evidence against the flying spaghetti monster?
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v3nesl
Posts: 4,466
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5/16/2013 1:27:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 11:34:03 PM, drhead wrote:
At 5/15/2013 10:17:13 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Pretty mush impossible. It is certainly possible that mutation can occurred, and can be pass down from generation to generation.

I rather point that the lack of empirical evidence in human evolution is enough to disregard the fact that evolution is absolute. Say, it is possible that our physical appearance had never changed at all, only the knowledge was evolved and make what is us today, any traces of evolution might simply be a "natural coincidence" rather than an actual evidences. They never witness any apes that turn in to hairless, sapiens species anyway.

Actually, the main thing in a theory is being falsifiable.

Crazy me, I thought the main thing was to be correct.
This space for rent.
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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5/16/2013 10:54:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 9:24:47 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
is there any at all?

That's a vague and loaded question
Like almost anything, it depends who you ask.

Coincidentally, There's was just an Origin of life debate today:
http://watch.biola.edu...

And there's a new book coming out on June 18th by Stephen C. Meyer called "Darwin"s Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design"

There are tons of websites articles, books, etc. If you want I can give you some resources, the most anti evolution person on this site is probably medic, so if you want to hear the anti evolutionists side, he'd be a good person to ask.
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suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/17/2013 7:14:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2013 11:28:33 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/15/2013 11:13:47 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/15/2013 10:25:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
What specifically?

Common descent?
Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes?
Speciation?

err what?

These are different concepts within evolutionary biology:

Common descent? - The idea that all evolutionary paths in a group can be traced back to the same source. Universal common descent is the idea that all life came from a single source.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes? - Basically observable changes due to evolution.

Speciation? - This is more tricky, since 'species' itself is an imperfect concept, but it is the event of a new species being formed.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes, I guest.

Since there is an evidence that specific species of fish can be bred to be more colorful or saltwater capable despite being freshwater born and carried this traits to their offspring.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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5/17/2013 10:52:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2013 1:27:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/15/2013 11:34:03 PM, drhead wrote:
At 5/15/2013 10:17:13 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Pretty mush impossible. It is certainly possible that mutation can occurred, and can be pass down from generation to generation.

I rather point that the lack of empirical evidence in human evolution is enough to disregard the fact that evolution is absolute. Say, it is possible that our physical appearance had never changed at all, only the knowledge was evolved and make what is us today, any traces of evolution might simply be a "natural coincidence" rather than an actual evidences. They never witness any apes that turn in to hairless, sapiens species anyway.

Actually, the main thing in a theory is being falsifiable.

Crazy me, I thought the main thing was to be correct.

No, falsifiability implies the ability to be tested. If it can't be tested, it's only useless speculation. Like intelligent design, for example.

But no, science doesn't distinguish between upheld theory and known fact. if theories weren't falsifiable, I could say there is a magic invisible teapot in space, and that theory would have to be accepted, since there is no way to prove something's nonexistence.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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5/17/2013 10:53:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2013 10:54:02 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/15/2013 9:24:47 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
is there any at all?

That's a vague and loaded question
Like almost anything, it depends who you ask.

Coincidentally, There's was just an Origin of life debate today:
http://watch.biola.edu...

And there's a new book coming out on June 18th by Stephen C. Meyer called "Darwin"s Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design"

There are tons of websites articles, books, etc. If you want I can give you some resources, the most anti evolution person on this site is probably medic, so if you want to hear the anti evolutionists side, he'd be a good person to ask.

Get back to me when you have a formal, testable theory.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
StevenDixon
Posts: 178
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5/17/2013 12:37:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2013 7:14:54 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/15/2013 11:28:33 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/15/2013 11:13:47 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/15/2013 10:25:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
What specifically?

Common descent?
Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes?
Speciation?

err what?

These are different concepts within evolutionary biology:

Common descent? - The idea that all evolutionary paths in a group can be traced back to the same source. Universal common descent is the idea that all life came from a single source.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes? - Basically observable changes due to evolution.

Speciation? - This is more tricky, since 'species' itself is an imperfect concept, but it is the event of a new species being formed.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes, I guest.

Since there is an evidence that specific species of fish can be bred to be more colorful or saltwater capable despite being freshwater born and carried this traits to their offspring.

More than just colors and fresh/salt water capable.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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5/19/2013 4:52:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2013 12:37:48 PM, StevenDixon wrote:
At 5/17/2013 7:14:54 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/15/2013 11:28:33 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 5/15/2013 11:13:47 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 5/15/2013 10:25:18 PM, Wnope wrote:
What specifically?

Common descent?
Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes?
Speciation?

err what?

These are different concepts within evolutionary biology:

Common descent? - The idea that all evolutionary paths in a group can be traced back to the same source. Universal common descent is the idea that all life came from a single source.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes? - Basically observable changes due to evolution.

Speciation? - This is more tricky, since 'species' itself is an imperfect concept, but it is the event of a new species being formed.

Evolution leading to major phenotypic changes, I guest.

Since there is an evidence that specific species of fish can be bred to be more colorful or saltwater capable despite being freshwater born and carried this traits to their offspring.

More than just colors and fresh/salt water capable.





Well, just because mud skipper existed doesn't mean that it has evolved from a fish or something else, who know they may just born like that at the first place?

The reason why I choose breeding example is that we can prove that mutation that resulted in fertile specimen do exist and can be prove. Thus, it is at lest possible, that our current biological physic is a byproduct of successful mutation.

P.S. Mud skipper is quite common around my town, some of the swamp people said it is tasty :D