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Who are the best proponents of Intellegent De

1Devilsadvocate
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5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
1Devilsadvocate
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5/18/2013 9:19:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

I'm also interested in the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Teleological argument.
I'm currently considering the late Prof. Antony Flew's "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind".
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/21/2013 3:40:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The best book I've read on the subject of intelligent design (and admittedly, I haven't read many) was Signature In the Cell by Stephen Meyer.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/21/2013 4:19:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 3:40:23 AM, philochristos wrote:
The best book I've read on the subject of intelligent design (and admittedly, I haven't read many) was Signature In the Cell by Stephen Meyer.

This is the one I hear most often from ID advocates. I haven't read it, but it's supposed to be one of the best.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/21/2013 11:32:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/18/2013 9:19:03 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

I'm also interested in the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Teleological argument.
I'm currently considering the late Prof. Antony Flew's "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind".

Pretty decent book.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/21/2013 11:34:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 11:32:38 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:19:03 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

I'm also interested in the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Teleological argument.
I'm currently considering the late Prof. Antony Flew's "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind".

Pretty decent book.

You don't think he's an ID, though, right?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
1Devilsadvocate
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5/21/2013 3:28:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 4:19:53 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/21/2013 3:40:23 AM, philochristos wrote:
The best book I've read on the subject of intelligent design (and admittedly, I haven't read many) was Signature In the Cell by Stephen Meyer.

This is the one I hear most often from ID advocates. I haven't read it, but it's supposed to be one of the best.
Thanx.
He's coming out with a new book on June 18th http://www.darwinsdoubt.com..., I just preordered it.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
1Devilsadvocate
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5/21/2013 3:30:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 11:34:04 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/21/2013 11:32:38 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:19:03 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

I'm also interested in the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Teleological argument.
I'm currently considering the late Prof. Antony Flew's "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind".

Pretty decent book.

You don't think he's an ID, though, right?

I'm not 100% sure, I know he was an atheist turn deist (Not theist) on account of the Teleological Argument. I know he said; "the most impressive arguments for God"s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries", "the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it". He also said that his deism was the result of his "growing empathy with the insight of Einstein and other noted scientists that there had to be an Intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical Universe" and "my own insight that the integrated complexity of life itself " which is far more complex than the physical Universe " can only be explained in terms of an Intelligent Source."
He supported the idea of an Aristotelian God with "the characteristics of power and also intelligence". And in 2006 joined 11 other academics in urging the British government to teach intelligent design in the state schools.

So it would seem that he was an ID of sorts to some extent, or at least very sympathetic and open to it.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/21/2013 3:49:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I read Antony Flew's books, and I don't think it's a good defense of intelligent design. It's more autobiographical. It only throws out a few issues related to intelligent design to explain Flew's conversion. The arguments for intelligent design in the book just scratch the surface.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/21/2013 8:56:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 3:30:57 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/21/2013 11:34:04 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/21/2013 11:32:38 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:19:03 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

I'm also interested in the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Teleological argument.
I'm currently considering the late Prof. Antony Flew's "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind".

Pretty decent book.

You don't think he's an ID, though, right?


I'm not 100% sure,

He's not.

I know he was an atheist turn deist (Not theist) on account of the Teleological Argument. I know he said; "the most impressive arguments for God"s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries", "the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it".

By intelligent design, he means something different than what you're asking in the title.

He also said that his deism was the result of his "growing empathy with the insight of Einstein and other noted scientists that there had to be an Intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical Universe" and "my own insight that the integrated complexity of life itself " which is far more complex than the physical Universe " can only be explained in terms of an Intelligent Source."

From what I recall, his biological reasons mainly had to do with the origin of life. He was against purely natural evolution.

He supported the idea of an Aristotelian God with "the characteristics of power and also intelligence". And in 2006 joined 11 other academics in urging the British government to teach intelligent design in the state schools.


Source?


So it would seem that he was an ID of sorts to some extent, or at least very sympathetic and open to it.

I hope he wasn't open/sympathetic to it. The extent to which he was an ID was that he believed in an intelligent designer, but that's not what you're referring to in the OP.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/21/2013 9:00:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 3:49:39 PM, philochristos wrote:
I read Antony Flew's books, and I don't think it's a good defense of intelligent design. It's more autobiographical. It only throws out a few issues related to intelligent design to explain Flew's conversion. The arguments for intelligent design in the book just scratch the surface.

How are using the terms "intelligent design"?

I'd agree that he didn't make a great defense of God, but only the first half was really autobiographical. He went into the arguments in the latter chapters, and did more than just throw out a few issues.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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5/22/2013 4:55:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/21/2013 8:56:54 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/21/2013 3:30:57 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/21/2013 11:34:04 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/21/2013 11:32:38 AM, phantom wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:19:03 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

I'm also interested in the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Teleological argument.
I'm currently considering the late Prof. Antony Flew's "There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind".

Pretty decent book.

You don't think he's an ID, though, right?


I'm not 100% sure,

He's not.

I know he was an atheist turn deist (Not theist) on account of the Teleological Argument. I know he said; "the most impressive arguments for God"s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries", "the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it".

By intelligent design, he means something different than what you're asking in the title.

He also said that his deism was the result of his "growing empathy with the insight of Einstein and other noted scientists that there had to be an Intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical Universe" and "my own insight that the integrated complexity of life itself " which is far more complex than the physical Universe " can only be explained in terms of an Intelligent Source."

From what I recall, his biological reasons mainly had to do with the origin of life. He was against purely natural evolution.

He supported the idea of an Aristotelian God with "the characteristics of power and also intelligence". And in 2006 joined 11 other academics in urging the British government to teach intelligent design in the state schools.


Source?


http://www.nytimes.com... - "In late 2006, Flew was among the signers of a letter to Tony Blair asking that intelligent design be included in the British science curriculum."
So it would seem that he was an ID of sorts to some extent, or at least very sympathetic and open to it.

I hope he wasn't open/sympathetic to it. The extent to which he was an ID was that he believed in an intelligent designer, but that's not what you're referring to in the OP.

I'm referring to intelligent design as in intelligent design, not creationism.
Defined roughly as "The theory that holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as pure natural selection."
(I did mention "/creationism" in the OP once in double brackets, because I'd also like to get to the best stuff that creationism offers, but my primary interest right now is real pure intelligent design, not creationism.)
Unfortunately, people often equate the terms, unfairly giving I.D. a much worse reputation than it deserves. (and imply that it's purely religion based.) I see intelligent design proponents trying to emphasise that they are not creationists and don't appreciate being confused.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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5/26/2013 4:18:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/18/2013 9:09:58 PM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV. & I want to know who the best proponent of Intelligent Design are.
I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of Neo-Atheists scream and yell about how stupid I.D. proponents are ( I know I'll get a few anyway), I'm not even interested in a dialog about the arguments of I.D., there are plenty of other threads for that ( and if not start your own).
I'm looking to learn more about the Intelligent Design ((/creationism)) POV from the top proponents.

I want to know who are the top proponents, what are the best; books, articles, sites, and debates on Intelligent design.

(Right now, I'm considering ordering Dr. Stephen C. Meyer's upcoming book.)

Most intelligent design arguments come down to ignorance...science can't explain that therefore God, or incredulity I just can't believe such and such happened without an intelligent designer.

So seriously what is Meyer going to do that hasn't already being done before ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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5/26/2013 7:33:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. Ben Stein
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%