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Aquatic Ape Hypothesis

Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/19/2013 12:56:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thoughts?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/19/2013 5:49:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 12:56:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:

Thoughts?

I think it's a neat idea. Most biologist hate it though, citing that there is not enough evidence for it. It would make for a good debate here, though.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/19/2013 7:30:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 5:49:43 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/19/2013 12:56:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:

Thoughts?

I think it's a neat idea. Most biologist hate it though, citing that there is not enough evidence for it. It would make for a good debate here, though.

The problem is that the evidence for the theory makes intuitive and logical sense, but there has been very little investigation for physical evidence- not that there is a lot of physical evidence for any other theory, though.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/19/2013 9:37:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is one thing that's I've always found rather counter-intuitive about the hypothesis.

If our lack of body-hair is a consequence of adaptation towards swimming, why does it grow on our head where it creates the most drag? There's a reason swimmers wear caps.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/19/2013 10:36:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 9:37:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
There is one thing that's I've always found rather counter-intuitive about the hypothesis.

If our lack of body-hair is a consequence of adaptation towards swimming, why does it grow on our head where it creates the most drag? There's a reason swimmers wear caps.

Presumably, hominids weren't actually swimming fully underwater and catching fish with their bare hands- that would be counter intuitive. When have you ever seen a fisherman getting his head underwater?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/19/2013 11:28:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 10:36:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/19/2013 9:37:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
There is one thing that's I've always found rather counter-intuitive about the hypothesis.

If our lack of body-hair is a consequence of adaptation towards swimming, why does it grow on our head where it creates the most drag? There's a reason swimmers wear caps.

Presumably, hominids weren't actually swimming fully underwater and catching fish with their bare hands- that would be counter intuitive. When have you ever seen a fisherman getting his head underwater?

If the adaptation only applied to wading, why should we expect any influence whatsoever on bodyhair above the waist?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/20/2013 12:40:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/19/2013 11:28:06 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/19/2013 10:36:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 5/19/2013 9:37:38 PM, Wnope wrote:
There is one thing that's I've always found rather counter-intuitive about the hypothesis.

If our lack of body-hair is a consequence of adaptation towards swimming, why does it grow on our head where it creates the most drag? There's a reason swimmers wear caps.

Presumably, hominids weren't actually swimming fully underwater and catching fish with their bare hands- that would be counter intuitive. When have you ever seen a fisherman getting his head underwater?

If the adaptation only applied to wading, why should we expect any influence whatsoever on bodyhair above the waist?

Pleiotropy, perhaps.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/20/2013 4:21:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I just had a new idea. What if the selection pressure for all bodily hair except for the head was due to being streamlined while swimming in water, not necessarily wading. However, the selection pressure for the hair on the head could be as a result of heat. If I recall correctly, it's generally agreed that the first hominids lived in a very warm environment. Why do people wear hats in very hot weather? To prevent too much heat going onto the top of their head, which receives a very large amount of the sun's rays. Perhaps the hair on the head acted as a sort of barrier to prevent heat stroke or something like that.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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5/20/2013 9:22:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis was popularized back in 1967 with the publication of a book called "The Naked Ape". The book was something of a sensation for a decade or so and it was truly a product of it's time. It made some compelling speculative arguments that made a lot of sense as long as you were smoking pot when you read it, and if you could get your hands on some peyote, Desmond Morris was a damn genius.

It took a teleological approach to evolutionary explanations in a sort of tail on the wrong end of the dog way, it started out with complex behaviors and then backed into a speculative explanation which when you are stoned, seems absolutely brilliant, I mean, far out, it just has to be right, because, man, what else could it be. I mean, like evolution was this goal oriented process that was creative and it just figured things out, and well, evolution was just so cool.

Unfortunately, the world of biology has never really embraced the brilliance of the Aquatic Ape hypothesis, and I suspect it's because the quantum physicists are bogarting all the peyote.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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5/21/2013 7:00:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/20/2013 9:22:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis was popularized back in 1967 with the publication of a book called "The Naked Ape". The book was something of a sensation for a decade or so and it was truly a product of it's time. It made some compelling speculative arguments that made a lot of sense as long as you were smoking pot when you read it, and if you could get your hands on some peyote, Desmond Morris was a damn genius.

It took a teleological approach to evolutionary explanations in a sort of tail on the wrong end of the dog way, it started out with complex behaviors and then backed into a speculative explanation which when you are stoned, seems absolutely brilliant, I mean, far out, it just has to be right, because, man, what else could it be. I mean, like evolution was this goal oriented process that was creative and it just figured things out, and well, evolution was just so cool.

Unfortunately, the world of biology has never really embraced the brilliance of the Aquatic Ape hypothesis, and I suspect it's because the quantum physicists are bogarting all the peyote.

Huh, I thought this was the case with 99.7% of the theory of evolution. After reading about evolution for 10 minutes I have to look up at least 10 hypotheses to try and understand it. And then 7 out of the 10 hypotheses have at least three more hypotheses supporting the first 7.

After 10 minutes of reading I feel like I need to smoke a blunt to really pick up on it. Reminds me of getting fried back in the day and figuring out life, love and peace. I mean we were effing brilliant man, we knew everything about everything. I had everything figured out by 14, just wish I could remember what I figured out...........and convince myself now that I wasn't just stoned and talking chit.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen