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Scientific Censorship

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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6/13/2013 1:24:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The outlawing of drugs such as cannabis, MDMA and LSD amounts to the "the worst case of scientific censorship since the Catholic Church banned the works of Copernicus and Galileo", the former Government drugs advisor Professor David Nutt has claimed. Professor Nutt, who was dismissed from the Home Office"s advisory council on drugs in 2009 after clashing with ministers, said that UN conventions on drugs in the 1960s and 1970s have delayed the development of "innovative treatments" for PTSD and depression by 30 years and also set back research into areas of neuroscience such as consciousness[http://www.independent.co.uk...].

Post some news/history in relation to the title pl0x.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
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PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/13/2013 2:23:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

Well, depending on the drug, it can be entirely lacking in damaging qualities. But, let's say it is damaging; so what? What right do you have to disallow people to damage themselves? Sure, we should vie to stop people from doing it. But we have no right to enact legal measures and use force, to stop people doing something that doesn't harm anyone but themselves.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 2:29:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:23:43 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

Well, depending on the drug, it can be entirely lacking in damaging qualities. But, let's say it is damaging; so what? What right do you have to disallow people to damage themselves? Sure, we should vie to stop people from doing it. But we have no right to enact legal measures and use force, to stop people doing something that doesn't harm anyone but themselves.

It's a tricky one all right, but people gotta realize they're not living alone... I don't see it as so huge a breach in freedom, more a freeing.

And I'd never be for the outright abolition of drug use because I like drugs too much :3 We might all just do it like Aldous Huxley though...
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 2:31:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would of course have the world change just from positive influence, but when's that happening anytime soon?
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 2:35:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's tricky too imagining how you'd disincentivize drug use, not wanting idiots to f*ck themselves over, but they're doing it anyway...

Lesser of two evils? F*ck it
llamainmypocket
Posts: 253
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6/13/2013 2:41:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that's a result of them being presented for recreational use. Maybe if they were legitimate research drugs then they should have been used for that instead. So sad that you couldn't have it both ways but society is better off without you nut jobs passing out LCD like it's candy.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/13/2013 2:43:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:29:43 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:23:43 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

Well, depending on the drug, it can be entirely lacking in damaging qualities. But, let's say it is damaging; so what? What right do you have to disallow people to damage themselves? Sure, we should vie to stop people from doing it. But we have no right to enact legal measures and use force, to stop people doing something that doesn't harm anyone but themselves.

It's a tricky one all right, but people gotta realize they're not living alone... I don't see it as so huge a breach in freedom, more a freeing.

A freeing from what?


And I'd never be for the outright abolition of drug use because I like drugs too much :3 We might all just do it like Aldous Huxley though...

What do you mean by that comment about Aldous Huxley?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 2:49:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:43:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:29:43 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:23:43 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

Well, depending on the drug, it can be entirely lacking in damaging qualities. But, let's say it is damaging; so what? What right do you have to disallow people to damage themselves? Sure, we should vie to stop people from doing it. But we have no right to enact legal measures and use force, to stop people doing something that doesn't harm anyone but themselves.

It's a tricky one all right, but people gotta realize they're not living alone... I don't see it as so huge a breach in freedom, more a freeing.

A freeing from what?

You think all heroin addicts set out to become heroin addicts, that they researched it all thoroughly before they started doing it? I'd say they were just dumb kids influenced by other dumb kids and there's your society. A freeing people from making awful mistakes.


And I'd never be for the outright abolition of drug use because I like drugs too much :3 We might all just do it like Aldous Huxley though...

What do you mean by that comment about Aldous Huxley?

Dude took drugs in style
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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6/13/2013 9:37:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:49:46 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:43:24 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:29:43 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:23:43 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

Well, depending on the drug, it can be entirely lacking in damaging qualities. But, let's say it is damaging; so what? What right do you have to disallow people to damage themselves? Sure, we should vie to stop people from doing it. But we have no right to enact legal measures and use force, to stop people doing something that doesn't harm anyone but themselves.

It's a tricky one all right, but people gotta realize they're not living alone... I don't see it as so huge a breach in freedom, more a freeing.

A freeing from what?

You think all heroin addicts set out to become heroin addicts, that they researched it all thoroughly before they started doing it? I'd say they were just dumb kids influenced by other dumb kids and there's your society. A freeing people from making awful mistakes.

While we're at it, let's remove peoples freedom to drive cars and motorcycles, and bungee jump, and rock climb. Making heroin wont stop people from doing it, but educating them properly, and providing treatment might.



And I'd never be for the outright abolition of drug use because I like drugs too much :3 We might all just do it like Aldous Huxley though...

What do you mean by that comment about Aldous Huxley?

Dude took drugs in style

Yes, yes he did. But some people just have a different style.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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6/13/2013 11:31:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 1:24:48 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
The outlawing of drugs such as cannabis, MDMA and LSD amounts to the "the worst case of scientific censorship since the Catholic Church banned the works of Copernicus and Galileo", the former Government drugs advisor Professor David Nutt has claimed. Professor Nutt, who was dismissed from the Home Office"s advisory council on drugs in 2009 after clashing with ministers, said that UN conventions on drugs in the 1960s and 1970s have delayed the development of "innovative treatments" for PTSD and depression by 30 years and also set back research into areas of neuroscience such as consciousness[http://www.independent.co.uk...].

Why does this myth never go away?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
PrivateEye
Posts: 972
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6/13/2013 11:34:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Muzebreak watch that video i posted about the fat kid getting taken away from his parents
Floid
Posts: 751
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6/14/2013 6:12:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

1.) Are you so sure about that? Some drugs there is a strong case for that (heroin for example), but other drugs such as marijuana I fail to see what you are claiming is obvious damage.

2.) Is something being "obviously very damaging" grounds to remove someone's freedom to choose to do something? After all alcohol and tobacco are legal pretty much universally. In some places, large sodas or the use of trans far in cooking are "obviously very damaging" (NYC). So what test do we use to draw that line?
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/16/2013 12:31:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:19:38 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:15:40 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 6/13/2013 1:56:35 PM, PrivateEye wrote:
Outlawing research utilizing drugs is ridiculous. Clamping down on their recreational use is not.

Why not?

Because their recreational use is very obviously very damaging. Take drink driving for example.

Though I guess you're Irish... XD

Maybe more people crash while high. Even though it's illegal.

This just means cracking down on having no sleep or having drugs and using dangerous machinery.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/16/2013 12:33:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh and this knowledge of the drug research farce has been about for quite a while, I wish the government would sort it already.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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6/17/2013 3:10:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
IMHO this is one of the biggest issues in Science (& academia in general, but particularly science) today.

It goes far beyond drugs such as cannabis, MDMA and LSD. Intelligent Design (not to be confused with creationists) proponents have been complaining about this for years. & I'm starting to think that, regardless of whether their scientific theory is correct, they have a very valid point about scientific censorship.

Here is some articles, (and an okay documentary) in relation to the title (I think I may have even more stuff if anyone is interested):

Peer Commentary on Peer Review: A Case Study in Scientific Quality Control
edited by Stevan R. Harnad http://books.google.com... / http://journals.cambridge.org...

http://www.bmartin.cc...

http://phys.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed "
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...

"Never let formal education get in the way of your learning." - Mark Twain
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/17/2013 3:59:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/13/2013 2:01:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
https://journals.cambridge.org...

Peer review is heavily flawed and isn't the god we thought it was.

Damn strait, this we can categorically agree upon.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/17/2013 5:30:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/17/2013 3:59:11 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/13/2013 2:01:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
https://journals.cambridge.org...

Peer review is heavily flawed and isn't the god we thought it was.

Damn strait, this we can categorically agree upon.

Apparently a lot of the smaller publications present better reviews because they're not trying to catch headlines, or something.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!