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It is possible to Divide by Zero...

donald.keller
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8/11/2013 3:16:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Theoretically, It is possible to Divide by Zero

I wanted everyone's input on my Thesis... Because the images are important, and must be there, and the Forum's don't allow for pictures, check it out herein the Debate.

http://www.debate.org...

I really want to see what everyone thinks.
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donald.keller
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8/11/2013 3:40:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sorry. That link leads to the comments. From there, if you move over, the images still do not show up. Use this one.

http://www.debate.org...
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Jackdaw
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8/11/2013 7:47:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
yes, if zero exists as a limit. Think of zero as being equivalent to a verrrry small number. Is there much of a difference between zero and 0.0000000000000000000000000000001? If you divide the numerator by a number less than 1, and if the numerator is greater than the denominator, then you always get a bigger number. If you divide the numerator by an even smaller number, then you get an even bigger number. Dividing by a number that is closely approaching zero will give you a GIGANTIC number. Therefore, dividing by zero itself gives you infinity.
drafterman
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8/11/2013 8:05:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. Zero isn't the smallest possible zero. The negative numbers are less than zero, your semantic word play notwithstanding. You invoke the analogy of debt, but, mathematically, 0 debt wouldn't be the smallest debt, it'd be negative debt (which is a positive amount of money).

2. Dividing by zero doesn't equal infinity. Look at the following graph:
http://tinyurl.com...

If you approach from the right, the answer as X approaches zero is positive infinity. If you approach from the left, it's negative infinity. You never actually obtain an answer and it doesn't actually converge toward any single answer. This is one of the many reasons why mathematicians simply say it is Undefined.

3. That's a square root symbol, not a dividing symbol.

4. You can't divide by infinity. Infinity isn't a number.

Here is a good summary of zero problems.
DanT
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8/11/2013 8:37:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 3:16:18 AM, donald.keller wrote:
Theoretically, It is possible to Divide by Zero

I wanted everyone's input on my Thesis... Because the images are important, and must be there, and the Forum's don't allow for pictures, check it out herein the Debate.

http://www.debate.org...

I really want to see what everyone thinks.

0.000000001 > 0

0 = nothing. You can cut a non-extant pie into 4 pieces and get 0 slices of pie. You cannot cut 4 pies into 0 pieces. 0/4=0, 4/0=error
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Enji
Posts: 1,022
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8/11/2013 9:27:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 8:36:39 AM, drafterman wrote:
Also, since you are asserting that 5 / 0 = infinity, do you also assert that 0 * infinity = 5?

^ This(ish). Division is the inverse of multiplication, so if n/0 = inifinity, then n/0 * 0 = infinity * 0 = n, for any number n. Consequently, your solution to division by zero entails that any real number is equal to any other real number, which kinda screws up number theory.
donald.keller
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8/11/2013 11:51:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 8:05:00 AM, drafterman wrote:
1. Zero isn't the smallest possible zero. The negative numbers are less than zero, your semantic word play notwithstanding. You invoke the analogy of debt, but, mathematically, 0 debt wouldn't be the smallest debt, it'd be negative debt (which is a positive amount of money).

No, you are using play.

0 is the smallest amount you can have, and the smallest amount you can owe. This is why when some had a debt of 1,000, (-1,000) you don't call it a small number.
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donald.keller
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8/11/2013 11:52:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
DanT, you didn't read the thesis.... =.=
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drafterman
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8/11/2013 12:06:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:51:23 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 8/11/2013 8:05:00 AM, drafterman wrote:
1. Zero isn't the smallest possible zero. The negative numbers are less than zero, your semantic word play notwithstanding. You invoke the analogy of debt, but, mathematically, 0 debt wouldn't be the smallest debt, it'd be negative debt (which is a positive amount of money).

No, you are using play.

0 is the smallest amount you can have,

No it isn't.

and the smallest amount you can owe.

Mathematically, no.

This is why when some had a debt of 1,000, (-1,000) you don't call it a small number.

You're equivocating and attempting to use language as smoke and mirrors to cover up your mathematical mistakes.

There are two ways you can look at money, in terms of profit or in terms of debt. If you look at it in terms of profit, debt is represented by negative numbers. If you look at it in terms of debt, profit is represented by negative numbers.

In neither case is there a "smallest" number. If I have $1,000 of debt, I have LESS money than if I had $0 debt. This is in terms of profit. You are attempting to switch it around and use terms of debt and note that $1,000 is MORE than $0 of debt, but $0 isn't the lowest amount. I can have negative debt (which is just positive money). Having -$1,000 of debt is less than $0 of debt.

Slapping units of measure and playing around with language isn't going to get you anywhere in the realm of math. There is no smallest number.
drafterman
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8/11/2013 12:08:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And. even if you selectively choose some field in which a negative amount is nonsensical, that won't do anything to prove your point about the math.
Enji
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8/11/2013 12:59:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:08:19 PM, drafterman wrote:
And. even if you selectively choose some field in which a negative amount is nonsensical, that won't do anything to prove your point about the math.

I think it's arguable that 0 is the smallest number, if only because "smallest" isn't mathematically defined. If you define smallest as least with respect to the number line, then certainly -10 is smaller than 0, however if you define smallest as least with respect to magnitude, then 0 is the least possible magnitude; 0 is less than |-10|. In this sense, -infinity is just a large negative number. And I think that the size of a number is more intuitively understood as its magnitude than its position on the number line.

Of course, his conclusion based on 0 being the smallest possible number can just as well be applied to any other interval because all intervals are infinitely divisible; the distance between 0 and 1 is the same as the distance between 100 and 101 because the distance between two numbers on the number line is x_1 - x_2 which has nothing to do with division.
donald.keller
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8/12/2013 12:43:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Con has sent in his argument, and I've sent in my R3 argument.
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DanT
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8/12/2013 4:36:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 9:30:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
Mmmm.... non-extant pie....

I was on my phone. Non-existent
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Floid
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8/13/2013 10:00:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Your original "thesis" is a very poor wording of Zeno's Dichotomy paradox. It has been around for 3,000 years, but the formal mathematical solution came about with Newton, Cauchy and others some 300 years ago. There are an infinite number of mid-points between any two numbers, but the limit of say 1/x as x approaches infinity is zero. This takes care of your infatuation with "a trillion (decimal places) zeros".

As has already been pointed out, the assertion that x/0 = infinity is disproved by simple algebra. For that to be true then x * infinity = 0 would have to be true for all x which clearly isn't the case. This is also why your comparison with swapping the divisor and quotient fails (this is only true for real numbers of which infinity is not).

In your rebuttals you devolve into "it is theoretically possible" but it is clear from your arguments that you don't understand even basic mathematical theory, much less the level of analysis that would be required to rigorously prove your point.
v3nesl
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8/13/2013 12:42:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 3:16:18 AM, donald.keller wrote:
Theoretically, It is possible to Divide by Zero


I think this issue needs to be clarified before it can be debated.

The thing is, 1/0 is a perfectly valid mathematical equation. It represents the number of times 0 can be subtracted from 1, and that's a perfectly valid thing to represent mathematically. The problem comes when you try to say what 1/0 is equal to. Or, to put it another way, the problem comes when you try to do something with this math. But it's perfectly valid math, it's meaning is quite clear - it's the repeated subtraction of zero. You can do it all day long.
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Floid
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8/13/2013 1:38:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The thing is, 1/0 is a perfectly valid mathematical equation. It represents the number of times 0 can be subtracted from 1, and that's a perfectly valid thing to represent mathematically. The problem comes when you try to say what 1/0 is equal to. Or, to put it another way, the problem comes when you try to do something with this math. But it's perfectly valid math, it's meaning is quite clear - it's the repeated subtraction of zero. You can do it all day long.

1/0 is not a perfectly valid equation. It isn't even an equation to begin with because there is no assertion of equality.
v3nesl
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8/13/2013 2:07:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 1:38:42 PM, Floid wrote:
The thing is, 1/0 is a perfectly valid mathematical equation. It represents the number of times 0 can be subtracted from 1, and that's a perfectly valid thing to represent mathematically. The problem comes when you try to say what 1/0 is equal to. Or, to put it another way, the problem comes when you try to do something with this math. But it's perfectly valid math, it's meaning is quite clear - it's the repeated subtraction of zero. You can do it all day long.


1/0 is not a perfectly valid equation. It isn't even an equation to begin with because there is no assertion of equality.

Ok, you're right, it's not an equation, it's an expression.
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the_croftmeister
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8/13/2013 8:49:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 12:42:51 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 8/11/2013 3:16:18 AM, donald.keller wrote:
Theoretically, It is possible to Divide by Zero


I think this issue needs to be clarified before it can be debated.

The thing is, 1/0 is a perfectly valid mathematical equation. It represents the number of times 0 can be subtracted from 1, and that's a perfectly valid thing to represent mathematically.
I'm really not sure how you justify this, what counts as 'valid math'? 0 is outside the domain of division so 1/0 is actually a malformed expression. Unless you permit applying functions to elements not of their domain in which case you can justify it, I've just never seen a mathematician do this.

The problem comes when you try to say what 1/0 is equal to. Or, to put it another way, the problem comes when you try to do something with this math. But it's perfectly valid math, it's meaning is quite clear - it's the repeated subtraction of zero. You can do it all day long.

That is only one semantics for division. There are others. For example it can be characterised as the inverse of multiplication. Analogous to how there are multiple interpretations of the concept of integration. Reimann sums, Lebesgue integrals etc...

Regarding the OP, I have seen a demonstration somewhere of the fact that adding a division by zero (no matter what you define it as, infinity or otherwise) leads to contradictions when you do some basic algebra perhaps I'll go look it up when I get a chance.
DanT
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8/13/2013 9:08:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:52:42 AM, donald.keller wrote:
DanT, you didn't read the thesis.... =.=

Yes I did. I didn't agree, due to the numerous errors in your logic.

Take fractions for example.

2/1=2, 1/1=1, 1/2=0.5, 1/4=0.25, 1/8=0.125, 1/9=0.1111111111111111, 1/10=0.1,... 1/1,000,000=0.000001,.... etc

1/0 has no fractional form. According to you the fractional form would be infinity, which would require that 2 > infinity.

Another issue can be seen when putting it in word form. 1/0 would be written as one per nothing. Using the supply and demand chart, this would be plotted as 1 supply, and 0 demand. If there is no demand, than an exchange is impossible.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
the_croftmeister
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8/13/2013 10:07:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 9:08:13 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:52:42 AM, donald.keller wrote:
DanT, you didn't read the thesis.... =.=

Yes I did. I didn't agree, due to the numerous errors in your logic.

Take fractions for example.

2/1=2, 1/1=1, 1/2=0.5, 1/4=0.25, 1/8=0.125, 1/9=0.1111111111111111, 1/10=0.1,... 1/1,000,000=0.000001,.... etc

1/0 has no fractional form. According to you the fractional form would be infinity, which would require that 2 > infinity.

Another issue can be seen when putting it in word form. 1/0 would be written as one per nothing. Using the supply and demand chart, this would be plotted as 1 supply, and 0 demand. If there is no demand, than an exchange is impossible.

Just quick correction, you meant decimal<\em> form, 1/0 is a fractional form so it clearly has one.
DanT
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8/13/2013 10:11:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 10:07:44 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 8/13/2013 9:08:13 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:52:42 AM, donald.keller wrote:
DanT, you didn't read the thesis.... =.=

Yes I did. I didn't agree, due to the numerous errors in your logic.

Take fractions for example.

2/1=2, 1/1=1, 1/2=0.5, 1/4=0.25, 1/8=0.125, 1/9=0.1111111111111111, 1/10=0.1,... 1/1,000,000=0.000001,.... etc

1/0 has no fractional form. According to you the fractional form would be infinity, which would require that 2 > infinity.

Another issue can be seen when putting it in word form. 1/0 would be written as one per nothing. Using the supply and demand chart, this would be plotted as 1 supply, and 0 demand. If there is no demand, than an exchange is impossible.

Just quick correction, you meant decimal<\em> form, 1/0 is a fractional form so it clearly has one.

yeah. You understood what I meant though.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
the_croftmeister
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8/13/2013 10:38:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/13/2013 10:11:03 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/13/2013 10:07:44 PM, the_croftmeister wrote:
At 8/13/2013 9:08:13 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:52:42 AM, donald.keller wrote:
DanT, you didn't read the thesis.... =.=

Yes I did. I didn't agree, due to the numerous errors in your logic.

Take fractions for example.

2/1=2, 1/1=1, 1/2=0.5, 1/4=0.25, 1/8=0.125, 1/9=0.1111111111111111, 1/10=0.1,... 1/1,000,000=0.000001,.... etc

1/0 has no fractional form. According to you the fractional form would be infinity, which would require that 2 > infinity.

Another issue can be seen when putting it in word form. 1/0 would be written as one per nothing. Using the supply and demand chart, this would be plotted as 1 supply, and 0 demand. If there is no demand, than an exchange is impossible.

Just quick correction, you meant decimal<\em> form, 1/0 is a fractional form so it clearly has one.

yeah. You understood what I meant though.

Yes, but given the poor mathematical understanding of the OP he might not have.