Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Seeing in Complete Darkness

slo1
Posts: 4,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 11:00:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.sciencedaily.com...
Seeing in the Dark: Most People Can See Their Body's Movement in the Absence of Light

Oct. 31, 2013 " Find a space with total darkness and slowly move your hand from side to side in front of your face. What do you see?

If the answer is a shadowy shape moving past, you are probably not imagining things. With the help of computerized eye trackers, a new cognitive science study finds that at least 50 percent of people can see the movement of their own hand even in the absence of all light.

"Seeing in total darkness? According to the current understanding of natural vision, that just doesn't happen," says Duje Tadin, a professor of brain and cognitive sciences at the University of Rochester who led the investigation. "But this research shows that our own movements transmit sensory signals that also can create real visual perceptions in the brain, even in the complete absence of optical input."
...............
slo1
Posts: 4,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 11:12:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

Going off of this, could it be asserted that the reason why your perceive your hand in front of your face is because your brain knows where your hand is relative to your field of view?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
slo1
Posts: 4,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 12:52:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 11:12:55 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

Going off of this, could it be asserted that the reason why your perceive your hand in front of your face is because your brain knows where your hand is relative to your field of view?

Yes. I think there is a specialized field that deals with position of body parts when you can't actually see them. The Dallas Science Museum has a station where they ask you to close your eyes, stand with hands by sides and then bring them up while extended over your head and then try to bring just your pointer fingers on each hand together.

It is actually quite hard to do without being a centimeter or so off.

The surprising thing with the study I posted though is the brain processes a visual sensation like a shadow when it is estimating the position of the hand.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 12:57:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 12:52:42 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:12:55 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

Going off of this, could it be asserted that the reason why your perceive your hand in front of your face is because your brain knows where your hand is relative to your field of view?

Yes. I think there is a specialized field that deals with position of body parts when you can't actually see them. The Dallas Science Museum has a station where they ask you to close your eyes, stand with hands by sides and then bring them up while extended over your head and then try to bring just your pointer fingers on each hand together.

It is actually quite hard to do without being a centimeter or so off.

The surprising thing with the study I posted though is the brain processes a visual sensation like a shadow when it is estimating the position of the hand.

So while you aren't actually "seeing" in the dark from the perspective of what your eyes are perceiving, you are "seeing" in the dark from the perspective of how your brain processes the information?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
slo1
Posts: 4,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 1:00:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 12:57:27 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/4/2013 12:52:42 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:12:55 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

Going off of this, could it be asserted that the reason why your perceive your hand in front of your face is because your brain knows where your hand is relative to your field of view?

Yes. I think there is a specialized field that deals with position of body parts when you can't actually see them. The Dallas Science Museum has a station where they ask you to close your eyes, stand with hands by sides and then bring them up while extended over your head and then try to bring just your pointer fingers on each hand together.

It is actually quite hard to do without being a centimeter or so off.

The surprising thing with the study I posted though is the brain processes a visual sensation like a shadow when it is estimating the position of the hand.

So while you aren't actually "seeing" in the dark from the perspective of what your eyes are perceiving, you are "seeing" in the dark from the perspective of how your brain processes the information?

exactly
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2013 1:05:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 1:00:47 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 11/4/2013 12:57:27 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/4/2013 12:52:42 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:12:55 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

Going off of this, could it be asserted that the reason why your perceive your hand in front of your face is because your brain knows where your hand is relative to your field of view?

Yes. I think there is a specialized field that deals with position of body parts when you can't actually see them. The Dallas Science Museum has a station where they ask you to close your eyes, stand with hands by sides and then bring them up while extended over your head and then try to bring just your pointer fingers on each hand together.

It is actually quite hard to do without being a centimeter or so off.

The surprising thing with the study I posted though is the brain processes a visual sensation like a shadow when it is estimating the position of the hand.

So while you aren't actually "seeing" in the dark from the perspective of what your eyes are perceiving, you are "seeing" in the dark from the perspective of how your brain processes the information?

exactly

That's so cool!
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/5/2013 8:57:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

Definitely. Your brain really messes with you.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
Such
Posts: 1,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2013 10:41:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

I think you could take this a step further and say that those opinions and beliefs can act in tandem with your brain to create sensations that aren't really there.

We're basically stepping into the beginnings of western philosophy. Here, we can say that shedding erroneous beliefs and perspectives can bring us closer to seeing reality for what it is, rather than how we interpret it.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/8/2013 10:36:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/8/2013 10:41:23 AM, Such wrote:
At 11/4/2013 11:00:56 AM, slo1 wrote:
There is no reason to think that your brain is not also involved with formulating opinions and beliefs. How might it be tricking you into believing in erroneous beliefs just like it can trick you into seeing something in complete darkness?

I think you could take this a step further and say that those opinions and beliefs can act in tandem with your brain to create sensations that aren't really there.

We're basically stepping into the beginnings of western philosophy. Here, we can say that shedding erroneous beliefs and perspectives can bring us closer to seeing reality for what it is, rather than how we interpret it.

On a related note, I read an article some years ago about a study performed at the Kinsey Institute in which they identified a small number of people who were able to effectively have sex with only their thoughts, all the way through to climax. The researchers monitoring the subjects were unable to differentiate between their "imagined" sex and real sex between physical couples.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/9/2013 5:15:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I read a great book called the human mind by Robert Winston. It's just totally crazy some of the things that come out, and the insights you get into the brain when dealing with people with some specific brain injuries:

- people with a severed corpus callosum (that joins hemispheres) can be asked the same question in two different ways (written/verbal) so it causes the left and right hand side of the brain to give two different answers. Such as what is your perfect job? (rhs) graphic designer (lhs) race car driver.

- When undergoing brain surgery one patient was so convinced he could hear Mozart that he demanded the surgeon show the radio. This was caused by attaching electrodes to the brain, not by actual music.

- when stimulating the brain to make the patient laugh, scientists asked the patient why they were laughing. All of them would state some justification or other, sometimes the brain just invents reasons.

- you can lose the bit of your brain that ties images you see to an emotional response. Its called doppelg"nger syndrome, I beleive. These patients come to the belief that their parents/children/significant people in their life have been replaced with identical copies because their is no emotional response when they see them.

- my personal favourite. Ther is a part of the brain that aids in morality. When it gets disrupted with an electric probe, it affects their moral judgement in terms of answers to questions. If someone puts a substance labelled poison into someone's coffee and gives it to someone but it was actually sugar; and if someone puts a substance labelled sugar into someone's coffee and it turns out to be poison. Who is more worthy of punishment; the answers vary significant before and after the zap, with after thinking the accidental poisoning is more at fault.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,470
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/12/2013 11:25:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/4/2013 11:00:35 AM, slo1 wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com...
Seeing in the Dark: Most People Can See Their Body's Movement in the Absence of Light

Oct. 31, 2013 " Find a space with total darkness and slowly move your hand from side to side in front of your face. What do you see?

If the answer is a shadowy shape moving past, you are probably not imagining things. With the help of computerized eye trackers, a new cognitive science study finds that at least 50 percent of people can see the movement of their own hand even in the absence of all light.

"Seeing in total darkness? According to the current understanding of natural vision, that just doesn't happen," says Duje Tadin, a professor of brain and cognitive sciences at the University of Rochester who led the investigation. "But this research shows that our own movements transmit sensory signals that also can create real visual perceptions in the brain, even in the complete absence of optical input."
...............

We have a state school for the deaf and blind in my town, so I've gotten to know a few blind people fairly well. They will regularly say things like "I went to look at a new apartment today". So, yeah, apparently the brain constructs visual images even if there is no actual visual stimuli. We think visually, all of us, it's one of the ways we assemble data.
This space for rent.