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Scientific advancement & Spirituality

dattaswami
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11/6/2013 1:03:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The application of discoveries of scientist for the welfare of humanity resulted in the environmental pollution. The discoveries were successful but the application has not ended in the welfare, but harmed the humanity. It is like saying that the operation was successful but the patient died. The essential reason for such failure is absence of faith and devotion in God. God wants to punish the people through natural calamities and pollution.

Scientists cannot control His program. Therefore, mere social service without the element of spirituality fails. Even if it succeeds, it is only temporary. The service slowly ends in injury. Such a person who serves without touching God also goes to heaven and he will be thrown out of the heaven after some time. It is only temporary happiness, which results finally in misery only. If you associate the propagation of divine knowledge and devotion in such a social service, it gives permanent best results.

The punishment of God is only for a change. Your propagation brings that change. Therefore, God withdraws punishment. Mere social service without spiritual mission is like giving mere boarding and lodging to the hostel students without teaching in the classes. In such case the students get spoiled and finally you have harmed them. The nature of the punishment reveals the nature of the action of that sinner. The above punishments show either slow or sudden killing of human beings.

Therefore, the nature of the deed that is responsible for such punishment must be also killing. All the living beings are souls like your soul. You have taken the birth of the plants, birds and animals as a punishment, which infact is spiritual training only. A selfish soul is born as a plant and goes on donating its fruits, which were the hidden treasures in the previous birth. By killing the plant you are interfering with such spiritual training.

The mind of the God is irritated and that leads to the above effects. Thus a green plant should not be cut. A paddy plant is cut when it dies by becoming yellow due to the loss of Chlorophyll. It is equal to cutting the dead body. That is not equal to cutting a living bird or an animal. This is the reason for the propagation of non-violence by human incarnations like Bhuddha and Mahavir Jain. You can refer to the various arguments given by Me, to various questions on this same topic. There is no other alternative than this.

Prayers to God cannot stop these things. The propagation of non-voilence (Ahimsa) is the only way. Atleast let it be reduced and slowly let it be completely avoided. The Hindu scriptures (Dharma Sastras) attempt in this line. They ask the fisherman to stop catching the fish at least in Banaras and atleast on Maha Sivarathri. When that is achieved, the scriptures mention some more sacred places and some more festival days. Slowly they control the whole sin by finally saying not to catch the fish on any day at any place.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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11/6/2013 1:08:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 1:03:59 AM, dattaswami wrote:
The application of discoveries of scientist for the welfare of humanity resulted in the environmental pollution. The discoveries were successful but the application has not ended in the welfare, but harmed the humanity. It is like saying that the operation was successful but the patient died. The essential reason for such failure is absence of faith and devotion in God. God wants to punish the people through natural calamities and pollution.

Scientists cannot control His program. Therefore, mere social service without the element of spirituality fails. Even if it succeeds, it is only temporary. The service slowly ends in injury. Such a person who serves without touching God also goes to heaven and he will be thrown out of the heaven after some time. It is only temporary happiness, which results finally in misery only. If you associate the propagation of divine knowledge and devotion in such a social service, it gives permanent best results.

The punishment of God is only for a change. Your propagation brings that change. Therefore, God withdraws punishment. Mere social service without spiritual mission is like giving mere boarding and lodging to the hostel students without teaching in the classes. In such case the students get spoiled and finally you have harmed them. The nature of the punishment reveals the nature of the action of that sinner. The above punishments show either slow or sudden killing of human beings.

Therefore, the nature of the deed that is responsible for such punishment must be also killing. All the living beings are souls like your soul. You have taken the birth of the plants, birds and animals as a punishment, which infact is spiritual training only. A selfish soul is born as a plant and goes on donating its fruits, which were the hidden treasures in the previous birth. By killing the plant you are interfering with such spiritual training.

The mind of the God is irritated and that leads to the above effects. Thus a green plant should not be cut. A paddy plant is cut when it dies by becoming yellow due to the loss of Chlorophyll. It is equal to cutting the dead body. That is not equal to cutting a living bird or an animal. This is the reason for the propagation of non-violence by human incarnations like Bhuddha and Mahavir Jain. You can refer to the various arguments given by Me, to various questions on this same topic. There is no other alternative than this.

Prayers to God cannot stop these things. The propagation of non-voilence (Ahimsa) is the only way. Atleast let it be reduced and slowly let it be completely avoided. The Hindu scriptures (Dharma Sastras) attempt in this line. They ask the fisherman to stop catching the fish at least in Banaras and atleast on Maha Sivarathri. When that is achieved, the scriptures mention some more sacred places and some more festival days. Slowly they control the whole sin by finally saying not to catch the fish on any day at any place.

Summarise please.
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dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/6/2013 3:09:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

please have patience and go through it. Even if it is summarized, the concept may not be acceptable without logical analysis associated with it. This logical analysis is required in any field including science or philosophy.

At 11/6/2013 1:08:23 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Summarise please.
AlbinoBunny
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11/6/2013 3:18:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 3:09:41 AM, dattaswami wrote:
from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

please have patience and go through it. Even if it is summarized, the concept may not be acceptable without logical analysis associated with it. This logical analysis is required in any field including science or philosophy.


At 11/6/2013 1:08:23 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Summarise please.

It looks like you don't really say much about anything. Are you trying to make any specific point?
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themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/6/2013 11:17:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You people have the blood of the Crusades and the entire Bible on your hands. The holocaust was done in Gods' name, cults were created under Gods' name, and even dictatorships claim themselves as God.

Don't go telling everyone else that you people are all that great. You aren't.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/7/2013 8:33:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Crux of the posting ....

Mere social service without spiritual mission is like giving mere boarding and lodging to the hostel students without teaching in the classes. In such case the students get spoiled and finally you have harmed them.

If you associate the propagation of divine knowledge and devotion in such a social service, it gives permanent best results.

At 11/6/2013 3:18:20 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Summarise please.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/7/2013 8:45:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Solution for crusades to end ...

People belonging to any religion think that their religion only is the true religion. They think that the God of their religion can alone give the salvation and the worship of that God should be according to their religion only. They also condemn other religions and invite people to convert people into their religion. They do lot of work to establish their religion only in the entire world which shows their ambition. It is just like Alexander"s ambition to make the entire world his kingdom.

Alexander wanted to extend his kingdom. But, even he returned back after fighting with Porus (Purushotama) on seeing the loss of life in the battle. But, the ambition of religious fanatics is not subsided on seeing any amount of loss of life. Religion is considered to be backed with spiritual knowledge and the religious people are expected to be free from ambition. We can excuse ambition of any ignorant person like Alexander.

The heart of a religious fanatic will not change by any amount of kindness or love expressed in the appeals. Such appeals can change only the heart and the change in the heart is always temporary. Change in the intelligence brought by knowledge based on logic is always real and permanent. Intelligence (Buddhi) is considered to be the driver of this body, which is like a chariot running by the senses, which are like the horses. If the driver is convinced, the entire chariot along with the horses is in the correct path.

The terrorist will not change by love or kindness shown to him. He becomes the terrorist due to the wrong knowledge that enters his brain. He was convinced by that knowledge. That knowledge can be changed only by the right knowledge. A diamond can only be cut by another diamond. Similarly, one type of knowledge can only be replaced by another type of knowledge. Then only, he will be convinced and changed forever.

So far, the trials made to change the terrorist were beating around the bush and therefore, they did not have much effect. Today, SRI GURU DATTA is giving the right knowledge to remove the religious conservatism.

At 11/6/2013 11:17:53 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
You people have the blood of the Crusades and the entire Bible on your hands. The holocaust was done in Gods' name, cults were created under Gods' name, and even dictatorships claim themselves as God.

Don't go telling everyone else that you people are all that great. You aren't.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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11/8/2013 7:36:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 11:17:53 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
You people have the blood of the Crusades and the entire Bible on your hands. The holocaust was done in Gods' name, cults were created under Gods' name, and even dictatorships claim themselves as God.

Don't go telling everyone else that you people are all that great. You aren't.

So if a human being proclaims their self to be "God" then God is responsible for their actions? Does that mean if they proclaim their self to be the leader of Japan, then Japan is the culprit? All the blood of all the Crusades does not equal the harm done by Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot. The number of casualties in the crusades is estimated by historyrocket, wiki, and many others at close to 200,000. They were very bad, and should always be remembered as examples of evil, but people should stop claiming that the Crusades killed more people than greed alone has.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
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11/8/2013 7:39:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/8/2013 7:36:57 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/6/2013 11:17:53 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
You people have the blood of the Crusades and the entire Bible on your hands. The holocaust was done in Gods' name, cults were created under Gods' name, and even dictatorships claim themselves as God.

Don't go telling everyone else that you people are all that great. You aren't.

So if a human being proclaims their self to be "God" then God is responsible for their actions? Does that mean if they proclaim their self to be the leader of Japan, then Japan is the culprit? All the blood of all the Crusades does not equal the harm done by Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot. The number of casualties in the crusades is estimated by historyrocket, wiki, and many others at close to 200,000. They were very bad, and should always be remembered as examples of evil, but people should stop claiming that the Crusades killed more people than greed alone has.

No, that is not what I am asserting at all. I am just saying that asserting that you are going to do something under "God" is really quite disturbing considering what has been done under "God's" name throughout history.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Idealist
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11/8/2013 7:42:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/8/2013 7:39:39 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/8/2013 7:36:57 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/6/2013 11:17:53 AM, themohawkninja wrote:
You people have the blood of the Crusades and the entire Bible on your hands. The holocaust was done in Gods' name, cults were created under Gods' name, and even dictatorships claim themselves as God.

Don't go telling everyone else that you people are all that great. You aren't.

So if a human being proclaims their self to be "God" then God is responsible for their actions? Does that mean if they proclaim their self to be the leader of Japan, then Japan is the culprit? All the blood of all the Crusades does not equal the harm done by Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot. The number of casualties in the crusades is estimated by historyrocket, wiki, and many others at close to 200,000. They were very bad, and should always be remembered as examples of evil, but people should stop claiming that the Crusades killed more people than greed alone has.

No, that is not what I am asserting at all. I am just saying that asserting that you are going to do something under "God" is really quite disturbing considering what has been done under "God's" name throughout history.

Ah . . . that is much more understandable. I myself find religious fanatics to be pretty scary.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/8/2013 9:47:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God...

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.

At 11/8/2013 7:36:57 PM, Idealist wrote:
So if a human being proclaims their self to be "God" then God is responsible for their actions? Does that mean if they proclaim their self to be the leader of Japan, then Japan is the culprit? All the blood of all the Crusades does not equal the harm done by Stalin, Mao, or even Pol Pot. The number of casualties in the crusades is estimated by historyrocket, wiki, and many others at close to 200,000. They were very bad, and should always be remembered as examples of evil, but people should stop claiming that the Crusades killed more people than greed alone has.
Idealist
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11/8/2013 10:16:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/8/2013 9:47:31 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God...

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.

Why do you feel that descriptions and definitions pertaining to God must be so complex, and can't be simple? Jesus used very simple words and very simple lessons, so that even the most common of folk could understand them. When you make things complex then you create something which can be defined in too many ways, like the American Constitution, which has been used to justify near polar opposites at different times in the nation's history. Don't you think simplicity is a better way to communicate such important thoughts?
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/9/2013 1:10:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God comes down from heaven to live with us. Only a human form can live with us and guide us through knowledge. The Popes at that time also did not believe Jesus as God or atleast as Son of God or even as messenger of the God. They did not like the God to be introduced in human being as you say now. They believed only the dead messengers and not Jesus, who was the then messenger. The same logic applies today also. You believe the messenger who does not exist now. You do not believe the messenger who now exists before your eyes. Jesus told that He would come again. It means that the same human incarnation will come again and the same story repeats. The same Jesus is present today and the same people who were blind with egoism and jealousy are present again today. Therefore, I say, the history repeats.

As Jesus was insulted, then, today also the egoistic and jealous people will insult Jesus. Jesus will come in every human generation to give His direct contact. Otherwise, God Jesus becomes partial, because He gave direct contact to one generation only and not to the other generations. He clarified the doubts of one generation only through His direct voice and now He allows the immature human devotees to answer the doubts directly in the other human generations. He provided the fortune of touching His feet in one generation only and other generations are deprived of that fortune. This makes Jesus totally partial and you say that God is impartial.

All the religions also say the same. How can you justify this important statement that God is impartial? Therefore, we have accepted that God is coming in human form like Jesus in every human generation. To avoid answer to this, you are saying that reasoning should be avoided. When reasoning is discarded, you need not answer any question. Whatever you say that must be the truth. You are rigid without any logic and this is the blind conservatism. This cancer is present in every religion and humanity is always is divided by this cancer. You are opposing the unity of humanity and want to disturb the world peace. God will not tolerate you, and you will be thrown in to permanent hell for misleading the ignorant people.

If you see Bible, Jesus gives reason everywhere in His concepts. For every statement He gives the reason. When the priests asked Him that He should not have saved the animal, which has fallen in the pit on the festival day, He gave the reason for His effort to save that animal. He analyzed the Old Testament and gave logical interpretations. He did not mind to cut some irrational blind statements present in the Old Testament, by giving rational modifications. He has fulfilled His duty to be the true guide of the humanity. Whenever He leaves the world these rigid people twist and pollute the meanings of scriptures. To rectify He comes again and again. When the teacher leaves for a few minutes the class becomes undisciplined. The teacher comes to the class again and again. For teaching, the human form is essential.

A statue cannot teach you. If you think Him formless, He is not speaking to you from the sky or space or air. The human body is most convenient medium for the human beings to hear preaching of the God. The main goal of God is to preach the human beings and correct them to put in the right spiritual path. For beginners, He does some miracles as signs for His presence in the human body. The realized souls will detect Him even without those signs. Sheep see the shepherd and come near by recognizing him with eyes. Some milder sheep come near by hearing his voice, which is a miracle. The mildest sheep try to go away and are punished by the stick of shepherd, which is nothing but permanent hell.

At 11/8/2013 10:16:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
Jesus used very simple words and very simple lessons, so that even the most common of folk could understand them.
Idealist
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11/9/2013 2:13:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 1:10:15 AM, dattaswami wrote:
In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God comes down from heaven to live with us. Only a human form can live with us and guide us through knowledge. The Popes at that time also did not believe Jesus as God or atleast as Son of God or even as messenger of the God. They did not like the God to be introduced in human being as you say now. They believed only the dead messengers and not Jesus, who was the then messenger. The same logic applies today also. You believe the messenger who does not exist now. You do not believe the messenger who now exists before your eyes. Jesus told that He would come again. It means that the same human incarnation will come again and the same story repeats. The same Jesus is present today and the same people who were blind with egoism and jealousy are present again today. Therefore, I say, the history repeats.

As Jesus was insulted, then, today also the egoistic and jealous people will insult Jesus. Jesus will come in every human generation to give His direct contact. Otherwise, God Jesus becomes partial, because He gave direct contact to one generation only and not to the other generations. He clarified the doubts of one generation only through His direct voice and now He allows the immature human devotees to answer the doubts directly in the other human generations. He provided the fortune of touching His feet in one generation only and other generations are deprived of that fortune. This makes Jesus totally partial and you say that God is impartial.

All the religions also say the same. How can you justify this important statement that God is impartial? Therefore, we have accepted that God is coming in human form like Jesus in every human generation. To avoid answer to this, you are saying that reasoning should be avoided. When reasoning is discarded, you need not answer any question. Whatever you say that must be the truth. You are rigid without any logic and this is the blind conservatism. This cancer is present in every religion and humanity is always is divided by this cancer. You are opposing the unity of humanity and want to disturb the world peace. God will not tolerate you, and you will be thrown in to permanent hell for misleading the ignorant people.

If you see Bible, Jesus gives reason everywhere in His concepts. For every statement He gives the reason. When the priests asked Him that He should not have saved the animal, which has fallen in the pit on the festival day, He gave the reason for His effort to save that animal. He analyzed the Old Testament and gave logical interpretations. He did not mind to cut some irrational blind statements present in the Old Testament, by giving rational modifications. He has fulfilled His duty to be the true guide of the humanity. Whenever He leaves the world these rigid people twist and pollute the meanings of scriptures. To rectify He comes again and again. When the teacher leaves for a few minutes the class becomes undisciplined. The teacher comes to the class again and again. For teaching, the human form is essential.

A statue cannot teach you. If you think Him formless, He is not speaking to you from the sky or space or air. The human body is most convenient medium for the human beings to hear preaching of the God. The main goal of God is to preach the human beings and correct them to put in the right spiritual path. For beginners, He does some miracles as signs for His presence in the human body. The realized souls will detect Him even without those signs. Sheep see the shepherd and come near by recognizing him with eyes. Some milder sheep come near by hearing his voice, which is a miracle. The mildest sheep try to go away and are punished by the stick of shepherd, which is nothing but permanent hell.


At 11/8/2013 10:16:36 PM, Idealist wrote:
Jesus used very simple words and very simple lessons, so that even the most common of folk could understand them.

My girlfriend speaks much as you do. She has met an "avatar" who she calls Sai Baba, and she's tried to explain his meaning to me. She also believes that a "Jesus" visits every generation. It leads to a lot of confusion between us.

In no way have I claimed that God was "impartial." I simply stated that God would know what is best for us, and what looks logical to us may not actually be the logical course. Is it worth surrendering the body to save the soul? Of course it is! Nor did I imply that reasoning should be discarded. We are made to be reasonable, and to use that reason to good effect. All I have said is that God would make it very easy to "find" him if one wished to, and wouldn't construct such a complex set of rules to follow as religions do. After all the teaching of his entire ministry, Jesus finally summed-up all the commandments of all the prophets and holy men into two: love God and love each other. It doesn't get any simpler than that. If everyone would leave it at that, I don't think there would be so many problems in the world, and I don't think there would be so many people who are so anti-religion.
dattaswami
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11/9/2013 5:03:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
what is the confusion? In fact, God comes down to clarify those confusions and give right direction.

Necessity of incarnation ...

When you read scriptures, which are discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you study a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts & you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations.

Suppose you study same course in a college & lecturer explains in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then & there & you will surely get correct interpretation at correct moment. The clarification is important at correct moment because without clarification latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations & past scriptures.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings.

The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. So the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

At 11/9/2013 2:13:43 AM, Idealist wrote:
She also believes that a "Jesus" visits every generation. It leads to a lot of confusion between us.
Idealist
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11/9/2013 7:17:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 5:03:56 AM, dattaswami wrote:
what is the confusion? In fact, God comes down to clarify those confusions and give right direction.

Necessity of incarnation ...

When you read scriptures, which are discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you study a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts & you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations.

Suppose you study same course in a college & lecturer explains in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then & there & you will surely get correct interpretation at correct moment. The clarification is important at correct moment because without clarification latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations & past scriptures.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings.

The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. So the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.



At 11/9/2013 2:13:43 AM, Idealist wrote:
She also believes that a "Jesus" visits every generation. It leads to a lot of confusion between us.

It leads to confusion because you don't need to know all about religion. If it interests you to learn it, then that is fine and good, but the base precept is very simple: worship your God and love all mankind, and that doesn't require religion. According to the Bible, when Jesus lived the Pharisees didn't recognize him, but the lowly and uneducated did.
Idealist
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11/9/2013 11:12:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 2:13:43 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/9/2013 1:10:15 AM, dattaswami wrote:
In Christianity Jesus is called as Emmanuel, which means that God comes down from heaven to live with us. Only a human form can live with us and guide us through knowledge. The Popes at that time also did not believe Jesus as God or atleast as Son of God or even as messenger of the God. They did not like the God to be introduced in human being as you say now. They believed only the dead messengers and not Jesus, who was the then messenger. The same logic applies today also. You believe the messenger who does not exist now. You do not believe the messenger who now exists before your eyes. Jesus told that He would come again. It means that the same human incarnation will come again and the same story repeats. The same Jesus is present today and the same people who were blind with egoism and jealousy are present again today. Therefore, I say, the history repeats.

As Jesus was insulted, then, today also the egoistic and jealous people will insult Jesus. Jesus will come in every human generation to give His direct contact. Otherwise, God Jesus becomes partial, because He gave direct contact to one generation only and not to the other generations. He clarified the doubts of one generation only through His direct voice and now He allows the immature human devotees to answer the doubts directly in the other human generations. He provided the fortune of touching His feet in one generation only and other generations are deprived of that fortune. This makes Jesus totally partial and you say that God is impartial.

All the religions also say the same. How can you justify this important statement that God is impartial? Therefore, we have accepted that God is coming in human form like Jesus in every human generation. To avoid answer to this, you are saying that reasoning should be avoided. When reasoning is discarded, you need not answer any question. Whatever you say that must be the truth. You are rigid without any logic and this is the blind conservatism. This cancer is present in every religion and humanity is always is divided by this cancer. You are opposing the unity of humanity and want to disturb the world peace. God will not tolerate you, and you will be thrown in to permanent hell for misleading the ignorant people.

If you see Bible, Jesus gives reason everywhere in His concepts. For every statement He gives the reason. When the priests asked Him that He should not have saved the animal, which has fallen in the pit on the festival day, He gave the reason for His effort to save that animal. He analyzed the Old Testament and gave logical interpretations. He did not mind to cut some irrational blind statements present in the Old Testament, by giving rational modifications. He has fulfilled His duty to be the true guide of the humanity. Whenever He leaves the world these rigid people twist and pollute the meanings of scriptures. To rectify He comes again and again. When the teacher leaves for a few minutes the class becomes undisciplined. The teacher comes to the class again and again. For teaching, the human form is essential.

A statue cannot teach you. If you think Him formless, He is not speaking to you from the sky or space or air. The human body is most convenient medium for the human beings to hear preaching of the God. The main goal of God is to preach the human beings and correct them to put in the right spiritual path. For beginners, He does some miracles as signs for His presence in the human body. The realized souls will detect Him even without those signs. Sheep see the shepherd and come near by recognizing him with eyes. Some milder sheep come near by hearing his voice, which is a miracle. The mildest sheep try to go away and are punished by the stick of shepherd, which is nothing but permanent hell.

You know, after re-reading this I am reminded of why I don't like religion. Religious people are too quick to feign righteousness, and to use their own made-up rules and selfish opinions to justify judging others. You would say that your God would sentence a person to an eternal Hellfire, watching them burn with millions of others from some perfect throne in a perfect Heaven? You are saying he would be so cruel when not even an average human would ever be so? I don't like that picture of God, and I reject it. What happened to the God of love and forgiveness, after all?
dattaswami
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11/10/2013 12:32:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If a sinner realizes the sin and repents, the punishment is reduced. After repentance if you do not repeat the sins, the punishment is cancelled. If the sinner does not repent, he will repeat the sin again and again. Such sinner can be controlled only by punishment. If this is not true the police department has no use. There are some sinners who can be controlled only by third degree treatment.

If such punishment and revenge are not required and if everybody can be transformed by preaching, then what is the necessity of the existence of "Hell and Liquid Fire?" If such possibility of transformation by love and knowledge is there, then why the Lord mentioned the word "revenge" at all? Therefore this means that there are some sinners who cannot be transformed by love and knowledge.

Some clever people criticize Lord Rama and Lord Krishna, who have resorted to punish the sinners. Such clever people should answer about the word "revenge" uttered by the Lord and also should explain the mention of the liquid fire in the scriptures. If all the human beings can be transformed through love and knowledge such words should not have been mentioned in their scriptures.

The Lord is the father of all the souls. Your love on another human being is only brotherly love. The love of the father is far greater than the brotherly love. You are criticizing your father for punishing your brother! The father tries His best to transform His son. On the first day of the war, Ravana was defeated by Rama. Rama could have killed him on the very first day. But Rama asked Ravana to go back and think that night. The Lord punishes anyone as last resort. Even then, the Lord does not have anger or hatred. The punishment is only the last method attempted for transformation.

There also, the aim is only transformation. But when you punish your enemy, such aim does not exist. Therefore the punishment by Lord is also reflecting His divine love and kindness on the soul. Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish the soul. He is just like a teacher who punishes the student for his misbehavior. The teacher does not get any sin in such punishment. The reason again is that the intention decides the action.

At 11/9/2013 11:12:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
You are saying he would be so cruel when not even an average human would ever be so? I don't like that picture of God, and I reject it. What happened to the God of love and forgiveness, after all?
dattaswami
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11/10/2013 12:37:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Religion & Spirituality "

Religion is the context of GOD to establish peace and justice in this world. In this context, you must control your bad qualities so that you will not disturb the peace and justice and will not harm any good person in this world. If you disturb the world by your bad qualities, God will punish you.

But, in this context, it is sufficient if you control the bad qualities since you cannot remove them. The Religion ends here. Some religions strictly end here without any spiritualism.

In the present day, people want everybody to convert to their religion irrespective of the qualities just to establish their religion due to fanaticism.

If one says that he is good and he is devoid of all the bad qualities, it only cheating others, which in turn is cheating oneself. Due to this practically impossible condition, for the religious admission, people have developed allergy towards any religion because the eligibility for admission is impractical. In the olden days, people used to give importance to good qualities and good people. Present requirement is how many people are there in our religion but not quality of the people.

The spiritualism is the context in which you have to make efforts to reach God. In this context, you need not even control your bad qualities because God has no personal objection towards your bad qualities. These bad qualities cannot be obstacles in any manner in this context.

Moreover, when you turn these bad qualities towards the God, they become your helpers. Any quality whether good or bad, is created by God only to help you in reaching Him.

At 11/9/2013 7:17:58 PM, Idealist wrote:
It leads to confusion because you don't to know all about religion. If it interests you to learn it, then that is fine and good, but the base precept is very simple: worship your God and love all mankind, and that doesn't require religion.
Idealist
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11/10/2013 1:52:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/10/2013 12:32:38 AM, dattaswami wrote:
If a sinner realizes the sin and repents, the punishment is reduced. After repentance if you do not repeat the sins, the punishment is cancelled. If the sinner does not repent, he will repeat the sin again and again. Such sinner can be controlled only by punishment. If this is not true the police department has no use. There are some sinners who can be controlled only by third degree treatment.

A true masterpiece can only be created through love and commitment. Loyalty can only be won through love and trust, not by way of threats of fire and torture. You believe in reincarnation, right? The idea is that good is better than evil, and with enough tries a person will realize this. He will want to be good. A person who loves their God will wish to please their God, and hurting their God is enough punishment by itself to coerce them to change.

If such punishment and revenge are not required and if everybody can be transformed by preaching, then what is the necessity of the existence of "Hell and Liquid Fire?" If such possibility of transformation by love and knowledge is there, then why the Lord mentioned the word "revenge" at all? Therefore this means that there are some sinners who cannot be transformed by love and knowledge.

I do not believe in Hell or liquid fire. I do not believe in revenge. These are words that were uttered by men who wished to make their God seem powerful enough to frighten their enemies. After all, who is afraid of a friendly God? Anyone can be transformed by enough love and patience. Punishment only drives them away. You may force them to obey you, but they will not love you. This is something that can only come through an act of free will, made by their own free choice.

Some clever people criticize Lord Rama and Lord Krishna, who have resorted to punish the sinners. Such clever people should answer about the word "revenge" uttered by the Lord and also should explain the mention of the liquid fire in the scriptures. If all the human beings can be transformed through love and knowledge such words should not have been mentioned in their scriptures.

I do not worship the Bible any more than I worship the Mahaburata. The Bible was written by a nation of men as a history and guide, as its contents make obvious. Part of it is a genealogy. Part is common wisdom. People were admonished not to eat pork or non-kosher meats because those were the ones which caused the most illness through under-cooking, which was common at the time. Yes, part of it speaks of visions and dreams, but even then the person had to convert the dream into words (which isn't easy to do) and write them down. Then you have to read the words and try to convert them back into a visual format. A lot is lost in the process. There is no book of "God" or "Jesus". If he wanted men to learn everything through a book, why didn't Jesus write things down instead of teaching them? That would have been the best way to ensure correct interpretation. He taught because truth and devotion are personal things, containing love and kindness along with the lessons. Then he told them to spread the truth to others. He didn't tell them to write a book.

The Lord is the father of all the souls. Your love on another human being is only brotherly love. The love of the father is far greater than the brotherly love. You are criticizing your father for punishing your brother! The father tries His best to transform His son. On the first day of the war, Ravana was defeated by Rama. Rama could have killed him on the very first day. But Rama asked Ravana to go back and think that night. The Lord punishes anyone as last resort. Even then, the Lord does not have anger or hatred. The punishment is only the last method attempted for transformation.

I would admonish my father if he tried to punish my brother by burning him forever, no matter what my brother had done wrong. I could never love a father who would commit such an act, and yes, I would criticize him. The father tries his best to transform his son through love and teaching, and when it is absolutely necessary maybe a small amount of discipline just to get his attention. Not eternal damnation. Again, good is supposed to be superior to evil, and so will win in the end without resorting to cruel acts such as condemning people to death.

There also, the aim is only transformation. But when you punish your enemy, such aim does not exist. Therefore the punishment by Lord is also reflecting His divine love and kindness on the soul. Due to such sacred aim the Lord is authorized to punish the soul. He is just like a teacher who punishes the student for his misbehavior. The teacher does not get any sin in such punishment. The reason again is that the intention decides the action.

I agree. That's why we call our prisons "correctional institutions," but then that gets distorted somehow into a system of punishment and revenge, which only drives the offender farther away from the law. I agree with what you say about kindness and love, but not the punishments, especially against the soul. If a teacher were to punish his student with a slap to the face it would not be accepted and would accomplish nothing but causing the student to hate him. I agree that intent is everything, but action is born from intent, and cannot simply be disregarded.
Idealist
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11/10/2013 2:16:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/10/2013 12:37:09 AM, dattaswami wrote:
Religion & Spirituality "

Religion is the context of GOD to establish peace and justice in this world. In this context, you must control your bad qualities so that you will not disturb the peace and justice and will not harm any good person in this world. If you disturb the world by your bad qualities, God will punish you.

Again, punishment will only earn obedience, not love or devotion. Satan himself was supposedly God's most trusted servant, because he was so obedient to God. But because he didn't love him, and envied him instead, Satan eventually revolted. Only love can be a lasting bond of loyalty.

But, in this context, it is sufficient if you control the bad qualities since you cannot remove them. The Religion ends here. Some religions strictly end here without any spiritualism.

I agree. Many religions are devoid of any spiritualism altogether. In fact, I would go so far as to say that organized religion is itself devoid of spiritualism, even though it may be inherent to many of its members. If you have a God then any worthy relationship with him will have to be personal, not professional.

In the present day, people want everybody to convert to their religion irrespective of the qualities just to establish their religion due to fanaticism.

Yes, and also due to a desire for money, which can only be obtained by gaining new members. The Catholic Church has even considered resorting to asking its members to vote on what is right. If they do this then "right" is no longer objective. It becomes wholly subjective - subject to the vote of its members.

If one says that he is good and he is devoid of all the bad qualities, it only cheating others, which in turn is cheating oneself. Due to this practically impossible condition, for the religious admission, people have developed allergy towards any religion because the eligibility for admission is impractical. In the olden days, people used to give importance to good qualities and good people. Present requirement is how many people are there in our religion but not quality of the people.

My problem isn't so much with the demands of admission as it is with the insincerity of the teaching. People who become religious tend to be judgmental of those who don't. I agree with the second part of what you say.

The spiritualism is the context in which you have to make efforts to reach God. In this context, you need not even control your bad qualities because God has no personal objection towards your bad qualities. These bad qualities cannot be obstacles in any manner in this context.

Moreover, when you turn these bad qualities towards the God, they become your helpers. Any quality whether good or bad, is created by God only to help you in reaching Him.

Here you confuse me. You say that punishment by fire is necessary to refine the soul, then say that it's okay for the soul to have imperfections. That in fact, the imperfections might actually be "helpers" of the soul. If every quality, good or bad, is created by God to help you in reaching him, then why must you be punished so severely for the bad qualities which he created? Do you believe in predestination?

As I told you before, my girlfriend is familiar with these things, and has traveled to India numerous times in order to study them. We've talked about them off-and-on, and I've shown her what you wrote. She thinks there may be some trouble with exact translations, but I don't know. To me you honestly sound a bit harsh and judgmental, as if you think that you are somehow superior. Is this true?
dattaswami
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11/10/2013 11:35:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Nature of Lord is Nature of Teacher

Lord Datta is essentially a teacher. His very nature is the nature of a teacher. If you study the nature of teacher, you have understood the very nature of Datta. The aim of mother, father and teacher is only the welfare of the child. But, mother and father may become lenient due to their blind intensive love on the child. But, the love of a teacher (Guru) is never blind and is always aimed at the welfare of student. The love of father and mother may sometimes spoil the welfare of the child. Therefore, Datta treats all the living beings in the creation as His students and not as His issues. Therefore, the teacher is more than father and mother.

The Lord created fruits for both good and bad actions. Why should He create a fruit for an action? Let there be acts without fruits. The child does mischief, but the mother or father does not punish. In that case, there is no fruit for that action. Similarly, let the Lord not punish our sins. If you expect like this, the answer is that the Lord does not behave like father or mother but behaves only as a teacher. The child gets spoiled if the mischief is tolerated. We are seeing this in the world. The teacher will never tolerate the spoiling of the child and therefore, He will not tolerate the mischief.

God uses the fruits of your sins as punishments and the only aim is your welfare. This is the reason why Datta is always called as Guru Datta. Therefore, guru or teacher is greatest. The results of bad deeds are used as punishments to transform and uplift the student.

At 11/10/2013 2:16:23 PM, Idealist wrote:
To me you honestly sound a bit harsh and judgmental, as if you think that you are somehow superior. Is this true?
dattaswami
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11/10/2013 11:38:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is a misunderstanding that the life history of every soul is written by God or destiny. God is certainly the creator of this whole world like the builder of the stage and the supplier of dress for a drama. He is responsible up to this level only. The story, dialogues and actions are written by the created self only.

The self is pure awareness and is called as causal body, but is composed of several types of vibrations which are the feelings or thoughts or qualities. The various types result due to various mixing proportions of Sattvam, Rajas and Tamas. Some of these thoughts have become very strong since from several millions of births. Such solidified thoughts are like hard diamonds. The bundle of such diamonds is called as the subtle body.

The soul writes its own story of drama based on the directions of these diamonds (Samskaras or Vasanas). Thus, in that way, these diamonds can be treated as destiny. But this destiny has nothing to do with God. The soul itself created its own destiny. Therefore, the theme of the drama will be uniform in any number of births of that soul. How to change these diamonds? You can change the destiny. The only way is to cut these diamonds by divine diamonds which come out from the preaching of divine knowledge by God through human form called as Satguru.

Gita says clearly that God has not created anything and only the nature of the soul, which is bundle of these diamonds, is deciding the theme of the life of any soul here (Svabhavastu Pravartate). When God enters this world in human form, then only God writes His own program which is the story of His divine play. Gita says that if you recognize such human incarnation and His divine mission, you will be liberated through your participation (Janama Karmacha Me Divyam").

Pleasing the God in His divine mission should be your ultimate aim. To serve Him in His divine mission you need the basic requirements like food, shelter etc. For that you need a job if you do not have sufficient support. Today the householders are not respecting the real monk because several mockers are there in the dress of monk. To secure a job you must study well.
Idealist
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11/11/2013 5:34:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/10/2013 11:38:35 PM, dattaswami wrote:
It is a misunderstanding that the life history of every soul is written by God or destiny. God is certainly the creator of this whole world like the builder of the stage and the supplier of dress for a drama. He is responsible up to this level only. The story, dialogues and actions are written by the created self only.

The self is pure awareness and is called as causal body, but is composed of several types of vibrations which are the feelings or thoughts or qualities. The various types result due to various mixing proportions of Sattvam, Rajas and Tamas. Some of these thoughts have become very strong since from several millions of births. Such solidified thoughts are like hard diamonds. The bundle of such diamonds is called as the subtle body.

The soul writes its own story of drama based on the directions of these diamonds (Samskaras or Vasanas). Thus, in that way, these diamonds can be treated as destiny. But this destiny has nothing to do with God. The soul itself created its own destiny. Therefore, the theme of the drama will be uniform in any number of births of that soul. How to change these diamonds? You can change the destiny. The only way is to cut these diamonds by divine diamonds which come out from the preaching of divine knowledge by God through human form called as Satguru.

Gita says clearly that God has not created anything and only the nature of the soul, which is bundle of these diamonds, is deciding the theme of the life of any soul here (Svabhavastu Pravartate). When God enters this world in human form, then only God writes His own program which is the story of His divine play. Gita says that if you recognize such human incarnation and His divine mission, you will be liberated through your participation (Janama Karmacha Me Divyam").

Pleasing the God in His divine mission should be your ultimate aim. To serve Him in His divine mission you need the basic requirements like food, shelter etc. For that you need a job if you do not have sufficient support. Today the householders are not respecting the real monk because several mockers are there in the dress of monk. To secure a job you must study well.

I'm sorry, but you aren't answering the questions which I have asked, or explaining anything other than your own personal religious learnings. It all sounds very strict and very regimented, as most religions do. I have nothing against people who feel they need religion to guide their actions, but not everyone does. Some people are quite capable of recognizing the truth on their own, and acting on that truth. They don't need to be told what to do over and over again. I think that any belief system should be simple and based upon action and understanding of good and bad rather than knowledge of what one is taught is the religious law. We don't need so many rules. By making people dependent upon "holy men," they are placed under another's control, and do not choose freely as they are meant to. I don't even study Christianity, let alone Hindi. I've only read pieces of them here and there. I don't believe the books and rituals are necessary to learn.