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Anthropic Principle

Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....
chui
Posts: 507
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12/18/2013 4:22:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The alternative explanation is that the parameters defining the physics we see can vary from place to place and time to time. So life evolves in the place and time where conditions are suitable.

Interesting that you accept the cosmological constant without question. It was invented and measured by scientists. If scientists are so wrong about evolution how can they measure the cosmological constant or even understand it?
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/18/2013 7:44:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."

That's roughly what it says, it says the universe has properties that allow for observation by intelligent life. Which suggests a huge amount of fine-tuning.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/18/2013 7:53:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 7:44:05 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."

That's roughly what it says, it says the universe has properties that allow for observation by intelligent life. Which suggests a huge amount of fine-tuning.

No, again, even with the clear explanation of what the Anthropic Principle states, you are still misconstruing it. In fact, what you are saying is the complete opposite of the anthropic principle.

The Anthropic principle doesn't propose, outline or define fine tuning, it explains it. It is defining such fine tuning as "observer bias": that the fact we can observe the properties of the universe in the first place fundamentally changes the properties it is possible for us to observe.

Take earth for example, one may ask why is earth so perfect for life. Why is it just the right distance from the sun. Why is it's chemical composition just right for the development of life? The anthropic principle doesn't imply "fine tuning", it simply states if ANY of those aspects of earth were different, such as it was as far away as mars, it was a hydrogen gas giant, or any number of other different properties; there would be no humans on the planet to ask the question. Essentially, it means ANY planet on which there can be intelligent observers to ask the question MUST have those properties. Thus leading to the consequence that the fine-tuning argument is irrelevant.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/18/2013 7:57:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 7:53:02 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:44:05 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."

That's roughly what it says, it says the universe has properties that allow for observation by intelligent life. Which suggests a huge amount of fine-tuning.

No, again, even with the clear explanation of what the Anthropic Principle states, you are still misconstruing it. In fact, what you are saying is the complete opposite of the anthropic principle.

The Anthropic principle doesn't propose, outline or define fine tuning, it explains it. It is defining such fine tuning as "observer bias": that the fact we can observe the properties of the universe in the first place fundamentally changes the properties it is possible for us to observe.

Got any proof of the existence of other universes?
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/18/2013 8:02:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 7:57:55 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:53:02 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:44:05 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."

That's roughly what it says, it says the universe has properties that allow for observation by intelligent life. Which suggests a huge amount of fine-tuning.

No, again, even with the clear explanation of what the Anthropic Principle states, you are still misconstruing it. In fact, what you are saying is the complete opposite of the anthropic principle.

The Anthropic principle doesn't propose, outline or define fine tuning, it explains it. It is defining such fine tuning as "observer bias": that the fact we can observe the properties of the universe in the first place fundamentally changes the properties it is possible for us to observe.

Got any proof of the existence of other universes?

Wait. Hold on a gosh darn second.

My argument is that you are misinterpreting and misusing an argument for the proof of God actually does no such thing. And demonstratably wrong.

For what reason does you asking me to prove the existance of other universes negate my argument that you have fundamentally misinterpereted, and misrepresented the anthropic principle?

This just smacks of you "changing the subject" when you are shown to have made a fundamental factual error in your argument.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/18/2013 3:48:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 8:02:07 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:57:55 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:53:02 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:44:05 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."

That's roughly what it says, it says the universe has properties that allow for observation by intelligent life. Which suggests a huge amount of fine-tuning.

No, again, even with the clear explanation of what the Anthropic Principle states, you are still misconstruing it. In fact, what you are saying is the complete opposite of the anthropic principle.

The Anthropic principle doesn't propose, outline or define fine tuning, it explains it. It is defining such fine tuning as "observer bias": that the fact we can observe the properties of the universe in the first place fundamentally changes the properties it is possible for us to observe.

Got any proof of the existence of other universes?

Wait. Hold on a gosh darn second.

My argument is that you are misinterpreting and misusing an argument for the proof of God actually does no such thing. And demonstratably wrong.

For what reason does you asking me to prove the existance of other universes negate my argument that you have fundamentally misinterpereted, and misrepresented the anthropic principle?

This just smacks of you "changing the subject" when you are shown to have made a fundamental factual error in your argument.

Your implicit assumption when you are talking is there are other universes so we shouldn't be surprised by the tuning of this one. The principle is logically equivalent to science saying there are values which permit for intelligent life, in fact there are as many as forty that if they were changed by a hairs breadth would result in a lifeless universe. Thus the only way you can wriggle out of your need to provide evidence for a multiverse is by constantly making a hidden assumption that all these variables can be different in other places, even though there is ZERO evidence for that.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/18/2013 4:11:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 3:48:13 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:02:07 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:57:55 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:53:02 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:44:05 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:37:27 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/18/2013 7:21:15 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/18/2013 5:30:00 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:48:28 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
The anthropic principle is scientific proof of God. The Cosmological Constant, an anti-gravity force discovered in 1989, is finely-tuned to 21 decimal places to allow for the existence of intelligent life. The idea this could be a result of statistical chance is improbable unless there are other universes, but there is zero evidence of this, and in fact we do not observe any changes within our universe that would indicate the precense of other universes influencing it from the outside.

Without a multiverse, how can we eplain this fine-tuning without God? It seems to me that this is probably one of the best pieces of scientific evidence for God's existence.

Here is a video that explains this fine-tuning in more detail than I can: https://www.youtube.com....

Do you even know what the anthropic principle even is? Have you googled it?

You are confusing fine tuning with the anthropic principle.

The anthropic principle says that we see the universe because it was made for us. This is the same as saying certain values have been designed for us, since there is no reason to think that they are that way for any other reason, as explained in the video link.

Erm. No it doesn't. Google it. What you are doing is simply making stuff up.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The anthropic principle states that if an intelligent being is observing the universe that contains it, the universe necessarily must have properties, constants and features that make such intelligence possible.

It can be summarised as follows:

"Any intelligent creature that observes its own universe will see a universe that has the properties capable of supporting intelligent life because if it didn't; the intelligent creature would not be there to observe it."

That's roughly what it says, it says the universe has properties that allow for observation by intelligent life. Which suggests a huge amount of fine-tuning.

No, again, even with the clear explanation of what the Anthropic Principle states, you are still misconstruing it. In fact, what you are saying is the complete opposite of the anthropic principle.

The Anthropic principle doesn't propose, outline or define fine tuning, it explains it. It is defining such fine tuning as "observer bias": that the fact we can observe the properties of the universe in the first place fundamentally changes the properties it is possible for us to observe.

Got any proof of the existence of other universes?

Wait. Hold on a gosh darn second.

My argument is that you are misinterpreting and misusing an argument for the proof of God actually does no such thing. And demonstratably wrong.

For what reason does you asking me to prove the existance of other universes negate my argument that you have fundamentally misinterpereted, and misrepresented the anthropic principle?

This just smacks of you "changing the subject" when you are shown to have made a fundamental factual error in your argument.

Your implicit assumption when you are talking is there are other universes so we shouldn't be surprised by the tuning of this one. The principle is logically equivalent to science saying there are values which permit for intelligent life, in fact there are as many as forty that if they were changed by a hairs breadth would result in a lifeless universe. Thus the only way you can wriggle out of your need to provide evidence for a multiverse is by constantly making a hidden assumption that all these variables can be different in other places, even though there is ZERO evidence for that.

I'm not nor ever have argued here that the anthropic principle is logically valid or true.

I have stated that you both misrepresent and misunderstand what it is.

Stop changing the subject.
Zogen
Posts: 20
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1/5/2014 4:49:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The anthropic principle directly contrasts with fine tuning. Supplemented with multiverse or chaotic inflation theories it can overturn fine tuning entirely.
Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand (Karl Marx).