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Quantum vibrations + Brain = Consciousness?

slo1
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1/17/2014 9:04:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.sciencedaily.com...

Jan. 16, 2014 " A review and update of a controversial 20-year-old theory of consciousness published in Physics of Life Reviews claims that consciousness derives from deeper level, finer scale activities inside brain neurons. The recent discovery of quantum vibrations in "microtubules" inside brain neurons corroborates this theory, according to review authors Stuart Hameroff and Sir Roger Penrose.

......

Orch OR was harshly criticized from its inception, as the brain was considered too "warm, wet, and noisy" for seemingly delicate quantum processes.. However, evidence has now shown warm quantum coherence in plant photosynthesis, bird brain navigation, our sense of smell, and brain microtubules. The recent discovery of warm temperature quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Anirban Bandyopadhyay, PhD, at the National Institute of Material Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan (and now at MIT), corroborates the pair's theory and suggests that EEG rhythms also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations. In addition, work from the laboratory of Roderick G. Eckenhoff, MD, at the University of Pennsylvania, suggests that anesthesia, which selectively erases consciousness while sparing non-conscious brain activities, acts via microtubules in brain neurons.............
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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1/17/2014 9:15:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are a few things that stick out on this.

1. Very interesting that this Orch Or theory of consciousness was developed by a mathematical physicist and not a biologist. It just goes to show that it is important that all of our disciplines get up to speed with quantum and the math.

2. 6 out of 20 testable predictions were confirmed, none refuted.

3. Lastly, this just goes to show that there are many functions happening in the brain which are yet undiscovered, which means there is the opportunity to find causation of currently explainable things such as consciousness and a definitive function which separates us from other creatures on this good green earth.
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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1/17/2014 11:55:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 9:15:23 AM, slo1 wrote:
There are a few things that stick out on this.

1. Very interesting that this Orch Or theory of consciousness was developed by a mathematical physicist and not a biologist. It just goes to show that it is important that all of our disciplines get up to speed with quantum and the math.

2. 6 out of 20 testable predictions were confirmed, none refuted.

3. Lastly, this just goes to show that there are many functions happening in the brain which are yet undiscovered, which means there is the opportunity to find causation of currently unexplained things such as consciousness and a definitive function which separates us from other creatures on this good green earth.

fixed
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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1/17/2014 1:15:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 9:15:23 AM, slo1 wrote:
which means there is the opportunity to find causation of currently explainable things such as consciousness and a definitive function which separates us from other creatures on this good green earth.

Could you clarify what you meant by that?
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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1/17/2014 3:09:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 1:15:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:15:23 AM, slo1 wrote:
which means there is the opportunity to find causation of currently explainable things such as consciousness and a definitive function which separates us from other creatures on this good green earth.

Could you clarify what you meant by that?

It is very difficult for us to have a definitive answer about how we differ from animals other than capability or metaphysical concepts. Both are not specific and filled with the possibilities of misconceptions.

We are just beginning to probe what exactly is this "mind" thing. If it ends up fully explained that our mind is a manifestation of something like this theory proposes, then the only difference between me and an ape is that my brain allows for a more robust collection of quantum vibrations which equates to my mind's superior intellectual capabilities. (Yeah, I'm smarter than an ape, but it is questionable some days)

It would just be a different configuration of biology. If it turns out birds use entanglement to see magnetic lines for navigation and my ability to think is another quantum driven ability then we become just another step closer to animals and the difference between the two is just a catalog of biology and the function of it. That opens an entirely different discussion.

Of course one can believe that a higher being gave that different biology via intelligent design, but it really starts to intrude upon the long standing idea that humans have souls and animals don't. In short we start to kill the last place a person can put the soul, that currently is in consciousness. The soul has been in many body parts the last 2000 years, heart, feet, brain, and now possibly the mind is no longer a place of succor for the soul.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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1/17/2014 3:19:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 3:09:42 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 1/17/2014 1:15:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:15:23 AM, slo1 wrote:
which means there is the opportunity to find causation of currently explainable things such as consciousness and a definitive function which separates us from other creatures on this good green earth.

Could you clarify what you meant by that?

It is very difficult for us to have a definitive answer about how we differ from animals other than capability or metaphysical concepts. Both are not specific and filled with the possibilities of misconceptions.

We are just beginning to probe what exactly is this "mind" thing. If it ends up fully explained that our mind is a manifestation of something like this theory proposes, then the only difference between me and an ape is that my brain allows for a more robust collection of quantum vibrations which equates to my mind's superior intellectual capabilities. (Yeah, I'm smarter than an ape, but it is questionable some days)

It would just be a different configuration of biology. If it turns out birds use entanglement to see magnetic lines for navigation and my ability to think is another quantum driven ability then we become just another step closer to animals and the difference between the two is just a catalog of biology and the function of it. That opens an entirely different discussion.

Of course one can believe that a higher being gave that different biology via intelligent design, but it really starts to intrude upon the long standing idea that humans have souls and animals don't. In short we start to kill the last place a person can put the soul, that currently is in consciousness. The soul has been in many body parts the last 2000 years, heart, feet, brain, and now possibly the mind is no longer a place of succor for the soul.

Ah! I glad I checked myself before I wrecked myself.

I do find that Neuroscience is my third favorite type of science. Thia could have VERY interesting implications to computing if we can understand the why as well as the what.
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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1/17/2014 3:28:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 3:19:07 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:09:42 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 1/17/2014 1:15:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:15:23 AM, slo1 wrote:
which means there is the opportunity to find causation of currently explainable things such as consciousness and a definitive function which separates us from other creatures on this good green earth.

Could you clarify what you meant by that?

It is very difficult for us to have a definitive answer about how we differ from animals other than capability or metaphysical concepts. Both are not specific and filled with the possibilities of misconceptions.

We are just beginning to probe what exactly is this "mind" thing. If it ends up fully explained that our mind is a manifestation of something like this theory proposes, then the only difference between me and an ape is that my brain allows for a more robust collection of quantum vibrations which equates to my mind's superior intellectual capabilities. (Yeah, I'm smarter than an ape, but it is questionable some days)

It would just be a different configuration of biology. If it turns out birds use entanglement to see magnetic lines for navigation and my ability to think is another quantum driven ability then we become just another step closer to animals and the difference between the two is just a catalog of biology and the function of it. That opens an entirely different discussion.

Of course one can believe that a higher being gave that different biology via intelligent design, but it really starts to intrude upon the long standing idea that humans have souls and animals don't. In short we start to kill the last place a person can put the soul, that currently is in consciousness. The soul has been in many body parts the last 2000 years, heart, feet, brain, and now possibly the mind is no longer a place of succor for the soul.

Ah! I glad I checked myself before I wrecked myself.

I do find that Neuroscience is my third favorite type of science. Thia could have VERY interesting implications to computing if we can understand the why as well as the what.

That is a good point. Could imagine giving a computer consciousness? yikes
Pareidolic-Dreamer
Posts: 84
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1/17/2014 9:12:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Alright, I have a neuroscience question.

Isn't it possible that consciousness is the sum product of all of the functions that each of the individual parts of the brain perform?

Why do I never read a neuroscience article that even offers the idea as a possibility?

Is it a case of science not seeing the forest for the trees?

Or, is it a case of me pointing out something that is so obvious that it doesn't bear mentioning?
Pareidolic-Dreamer
I see wall people.

When I argue against someone's truths, I always feel like I am arguing just as strongly against my own.