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Is Space Infinite?

TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?
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Nac.

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Such
Posts: 1,110
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2/24/2014 2:50:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Likely not, but relatively speaking, yes.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/24/2014 5:51:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

I'm not sure. I think the question can be answered by the special geometry found from the CMB - which indicates the universe is flat. If it was closed, then if you look far enough into space you would see yourself. If it were open then space would be infinite (I think). It's very flat... which doesn't answer the question either way. Krauss suggested that inflation expanded the closed universe to such an extent that it appears very flat, but is ultimately closed (and hence finite), and is so far the best explanation for the current data.

.... Something like that
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Subutai
Posts: 3,197
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2/24/2014 10:28:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

It's tricky to answer because there's not just one kind of infinity to consider. Even if the universe goes on forever, it may not be infinitely large. It could be bounded like the surface of the Earth, allowing you to travel indefinitely without ever finding an edge.

Here's a pretty cool video about it: http://www.newscientist.com...

So, to bluntly answer your question, we simply don't know, nor can we even define what infinite space would be.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Antiphone
Posts: 21
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3/4/2014 12:33:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?
No. It is bounded by time.
slo1
Posts: 4,330
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3/4/2014 8:02:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

I'm glad you are extremely certain about that, but can something exist in nothing? If there is no dimension-ability of space how could things have a dimensions?

Is there a difference between and area where things can have dimensions including time versus an area (for lack of better term) where things could not have depth, width, length, and time?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/4/2014 8:24:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Space in a sense is infinite, but our universe is not. Our universe has an edge, otherwise the big bang could not have happened as it did.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/4/2014 8:52:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 8:24:38 AM, SNP1 wrote:
Space in a sense is infinite, but our universe is not. Our universe has an edge, otherwise the big bang could not have happened as it did.

though the edge continues to move outwards
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/4/2014 9:21:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 8:52:19 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:24:38 AM, SNP1 wrote:
Space in a sense is infinite, but our universe is not. Our universe has an edge, otherwise the big bang could not have happened as it did.

though the edge continues to move outwards

Correct. Think of our universe like a balloon that cannot pop. Is there air outside of the balloon? Yes. Is the air outside of the balloon part of the structure of the balloon? No. Yet our balloon keeps expanding. Space inside of our universe is like the air inside of the balloon. total space is like the air inside and outside of the balloon.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/4/2014 9:57:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Then yes, but the universe still has an edge. You cannot escape the universe into endless space. For us, space is not infinite. In reality, it is.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?
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SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Spock26
Posts: 9
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3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes

First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/6/2014 8:31:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes


First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?

Link I provided has a picture that helps show evidence that the multiverse might exist. If there is nothing between the universes then universe couldn't expand. Universes are not infinite.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Spock26
Posts: 9
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3/6/2014 8:35:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:31:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes


First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?

Link I provided has a picture that helps show evidence that the multiverse might exist. If there is nothing between the universes then universe couldn't expand. Universes are not infinite.

Why couldn't universes expand? Please, explain your reasoning. Also, what I was trying to say is, if universes had the potential to be infinite, wouldn't that mean they could eventually overlap?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/6/2014 8:38:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:35:15 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:31:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes


First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?

Link I provided has a picture that helps show evidence that the multiverse might exist. If there is nothing between the universes then universe couldn't expand. Universes are not infinite.

Why couldn't universes expand? Please, explain your reasoning. Also, what I was trying to say is, if universes had the potential to be infinite, wouldn't that mean they could eventually overlap?

Universes have a set size that is constantly expanding, it is impossible to reach infinity by counting, so universes cannot be infinite. If there is no space between universe then the gravity caused by other universe would always effect every other universe, causing expansion (if it happens) to have a weird pattern. If the only space that exists is in universes and the center most universe is expanding then it would have to either overlap with other universes or push them. Pushing is movement in space, and we have not overlapped yet. Is it possible for universes to overlap? We do not know, but we do not think so.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Spock26
Posts: 9
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3/6/2014 8:47:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:38:57 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:35:15 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:31:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes


First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?

Link I provided has a picture that helps show evidence that the multiverse might exist. If there is nothing between the universes then universe couldn't expand. Universes are not infinite.

Why couldn't universes expand? Please, explain your reasoning. Also, what I was trying to say is, if universes had the potential to be infinite, wouldn't that mean they could eventually overlap?

Universes have a set size that is constantly expanding, it is impossible to reach infinity by counting, so universes cannot be infinite. If there is no space between universe then the gravity caused by other universe would always effect every other universe, causing expansion (if it happens) to have a weird pattern. If the only space that exists is in universes and the center most universe is expanding then it would have to either overlap with other universes or push them. Pushing is movement in space, and we have not overlapped yet. Is it possible for universes to overlap? We do not know, but we do not think so.

No, what I am saying is if universes could continue growing for an infinite amount of time, then universes would eventually have to either push or overlap, if we assume universes are growing out in all directions. I think there are too many variables to try and guess how universes react to each other, as we have not observed it. For all we know, universes might not even have gravity.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/6/2014 8:49:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:47:22 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:38:57 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:35:15 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:31:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes


First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?

Link I provided has a picture that helps show evidence that the multiverse might exist. If there is nothing between the universes then universe couldn't expand. Universes are not infinite.

Why couldn't universes expand? Please, explain your reasoning. Also, what I was trying to say is, if universes had the potential to be infinite, wouldn't that mean they could eventually overlap?

Universes have a set size that is constantly expanding, it is impossible to reach infinity by counting, so universes cannot be infinite. If there is no space between universe then the gravity caused by other universe would always effect every other universe, causing expansion (if it happens) to have a weird pattern. If the only space that exists is in universes and the center most universe is expanding then it would have to either overlap with other universes or push them. Pushing is movement in space, and we have not overlapped yet. Is it possible for universes to overlap? We do not know, but we do not think so.

No, what I am saying is if universes could continue growing for an infinite amount of time, then universes would eventually have to either push or overlap, if we assume universes are growing out in all directions. I think there are too many variables to try and guess how universes react to each other, as we have not observed it. For all we know, universes might not even have gravity.

Did you look at the link I gave you? It specifically showed where another universe's gravity effected our universe.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Spock26
Posts: 9
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3/6/2014 8:55:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:49:39 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:47:22 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:38:57 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:35:15 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:31:32 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:29:23 PM, Spock26 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:07:08 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

Because of the multiverse now has evidence:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

And if the multiverse is real then there must be something between the universes


First of all, I do not think there will ever be a way to confirm the multiverse. Secondly, there doesn't have to be something in between universes. One question I have is, if all universes were infinite, wouldn't that mean that universes would overlap?

Link I provided has a picture that helps show evidence that the multiverse might exist. If there is nothing between the universes then universe couldn't expand. Universes are not infinite.

Why couldn't universes expand? Please, explain your reasoning. Also, what I was trying to say is, if universes had the potential to be infinite, wouldn't that mean they could eventually overlap?

Universes have a set size that is constantly expanding, it is impossible to reach infinity by counting, so universes cannot be infinite. If there is no space between universe then the gravity caused by other universe would always effect every other universe, causing expansion (if it happens) to have a weird pattern. If the only space that exists is in universes and the center most universe is expanding then it would have to either overlap with other universes or push them. Pushing is movement in space, and we have not overlapped yet. Is it possible for universes to overlap? We do not know, but we do not think so.

No, what I am saying is if universes could continue growing for an infinite amount of time, then universes would eventually have to either push or overlap, if we assume universes are growing out in all directions. I think there are too many variables to try and guess how universes react to each other, as we have not observed it. For all we know, universes might not even have gravity.

Did you look at the link I gave you? It specifically showed where another universe's gravity effected our universe.

Lol sorry. I feel like an idiot now.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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3/6/2014 8:58:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:55:09 PM, Spock26 wrote:
Lol sorry. I feel like an idiot now.

Nah, it is fine. What is idiotic is someone expecting you to explain quantum mechanics to them in 5 minutes when they do not even understand the difference between matter and anti-matter.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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3/7/2014 5:24:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:41:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 3/4/2014 9:36:55 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 8:51:39 AM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 2/24/2014 4:18:15 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/24/2014 2:15:16 PM, TheAntidoter wrote:
I've been having this argument with someone IRL, so I want to know the opinions of others on the matter.

Is Space Infinite?

Yes. Space is definitely infinite. To stae otherwise suggests it is material.

no it isn't the reason we can't find end is that the universe is expanding fairly quickly

By space, I mean the 'thing' the universe exists in; not the universe (ie the collection of planets, stars, moons etc).

Why does the universe need to exist in a 'thing'? Why can't it be self contained and continually expanding?

It's not a matter of 'why', it's a matter of 'does'.

Looking at the universe as physical objects (with geometries), I agree all matter from cosmic to sub-atomic, infinite large to infinitesimal scales are self-contained by their geometries and can expand despite their properties (eg nylon shirts expand better than wool blankets; ball on expansion is more obvious than that of iron buckets). I would expect the same if stellar objects.

But to say they (ie all objects as comprised in the physical universe or multiverse) are self-contained and expand without space is absurd. I can only accept this as a conceptual aid like ideal gases are.

The fact that all physical objects, even rarefied ones (eg air) or invisible ones (quarks, virtual particles) exist in a context is obvious. I may use the case of Earth in outer space as a clear example of this. No invisible strings hold Earth IN place to orbit. Remove Earth and the space it occupied will be left available for another object to occupy. These facts give a clear basis to say that there is a space is all material things MUST exist in, which needs nothing else to exist. What Newton called absolute space. I simply call it space (or nothing) since it can't be observed, we infer it from things we observe; we know they exist in 'something'

I think the confusion comes when scientists mistake measuring objects in space (what Newton called relative space), observing their containment in the form of their geometries, and seeing these geometries expand etc for the overall context (space) they expand in.

I might as well try to use an example of a glass of water. If I take it from one place to another, I haven't moved space. I moved the glass of wat"r from a portion of space to another. Neither did I empty space when I drank the water, space is emptiness, what I emptied is a glass of water. Now imagine someone telling me that in this analogy I moved space and drank sp"ce. That is what astrophysicists suggest when the apply known properties of matter to space eg structyre, expansion and curvature.
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