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Does The Earth Revolve Around The Sun?

pozessed
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2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)
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pozessed
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2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

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Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.
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sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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2/25/2014 8:02:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Yes yes yes Those will give you precise coordinates to calculate from. Pretty much.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.
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Magic8000
Posts: 975
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2/26/2014 4:49:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

The sun bends spacetime which the earth is affected by......
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GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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2/26/2014 5:47:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

That made me lol.
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Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/26/2014 6:17:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:


Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

If it orbits a point in the Sun as you state, then it's still correct to say it orbits the Sun: after all, the point in the Sun can be roughly taken to be the Sun.
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Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/26/2014 6:26:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 6:17:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:


Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

If it orbits a point in the Sun as you state, then it's still correct to say it orbits the Sun: after all, the point in the Sun can be roughly taken to be the Sun.

To say it orbits the sun neglects the principle physics. Does Pluto orbit the sun? It's barycentre is not in the Sun. Colloquially it's fair to say that I agree, but not scientifically. Same applies to earth.
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/26/2014 7:02:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

I loled. It's true.

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I never disputed the barycentre is located inside the Sun. I dispute that the Earth revolves around the Sun is an accurate statement. And the one playing semantics here is you, since you are the one trying to equate the barycentre with the Sun itself. And Jupiter & Pluto's barycenter a are not in the Sun, as I already mentioned.
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Iredia
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2/26/2014 7:15:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 6:26:28 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:17:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:


Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

If it orbits a point in the Sun as you state, then it's still correct to say it orbits the Sun: after all, the point in the Sun can be roughly taken to be the Sun.

To say it orbits the sun neglects the principle physics. Does Pluto orbit the sun? It's barycentre is not in the Sun. Colloquially it's fair to say that I agree, but not scientifically. Same applies to earth.

Okay then. Where is Pluto's batyocentre BTW ?
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Sswdwm
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2/26/2014 7:19:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 7:15:53 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:26:28 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:17:35 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:


Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

If it orbits a point in the Sun as you state, then it's still correct to say it orbits the Sun: after all, the point in the Sun can be roughly taken to be the Sun.

To say it orbits the sun neglects the principle physics. Does Pluto orbit the sun? It's barycentre is not in the Sun. Colloquially it's fair to say that I agree, but not scientifically. Same applies to earth.


Okay then. Where is Pluto's batyocentre BTW ?

Just under 1 solar width away from the surface of the sun, between Pluto and the sun. Approximately....
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Sidewalker
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2/26/2014 7:24:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 7:02:27 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

I loled. It's true.

I cracked myself up with that one too :)

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I never disputed the barycentre is located inside the Sun. I dispute that the Earth revolves around the Sun is an accurate statement. And the one playing semantics here is you, since you are the one trying to equate the barycentre with the Sun itself. And Jupiter & Pluto's barycenter a are not in the Sun, as I already mentioned.

There's a star called the Sun, revolving around that star is a planet called Earth, and that is an accurate statement.

Forget this silliness, there's a guy over in the Philosophy Forum arguing the logic of pedophilia, why don't you go over there and help us all gang tackle him.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/26/2014 7:33:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 7:24:58 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:02:27 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

I loled. It's true.

I cracked myself up with that one too :)

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I never disputed the barycentre is located inside the Sun. I dispute that the Earth revolves around the Sun is an accurate statement. And the one playing semantics here is you, since you are the one trying to equate the barycentre with the Sun itself. And Jupiter & Pluto's barycenter a are not in the Sun, as I already mentioned.

There's a star called the Sun, revolving around that star is a planet called Earth, and that is an accurate statement.

Forget this silliness, there's a guy over in the Philosophy Forum arguing the logic of pedophilia, why don't you go over there and help us all gang tackle him.

Lol, okay, you win.
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Sidewalker
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2/26/2014 7:52:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 7:33:04 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:24:58 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:02:27 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

I loled. It's true.

I cracked myself up with that one too :)

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I never disputed the barycentre is located inside the Sun. I dispute that the Earth revolves around the Sun is an accurate statement. And the one playing semantics here is you, since you are the one trying to equate the barycentre with the Sun itself. And Jupiter & Pluto's barycenter a are not in the Sun, as I already mentioned.

There's a star called the Sun, revolving around that star is a planet called Earth, and that is an accurate statement.

Forget this silliness, there's a guy over in the Philosophy Forum arguing the logic of pedophilia, why don't you go over there and help us all gang tackle him.

Lol, okay, you win.

Lucky for you.

If you didn't stop, I was going to have to say NEE to you until you appeased me.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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2/26/2014 8:00:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 7:52:27 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:33:04 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:24:58 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:02:27 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

I loled. It's true.

I cracked myself up with that one too :)

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I never disputed the barycentre is located inside the Sun. I dispute that the Earth revolves around the Sun is an accurate statement. And the one playing semantics here is you, since you are the one trying to equate the barycentre with the Sun itself. And Jupiter & Pluto's barycenter a are not in the Sun, as I already mentioned.

There's a star called the Sun, revolving around that star is a planet called Earth, and that is an accurate statement.

Forget this silliness, there's a guy over in the Philosophy Forum arguing the logic of pedophilia, why don't you go over there and help us all gang tackle him.

Lol, okay, you win.

Lucky for you.

If you didn't stop, I was going to have to say NEE to you until you appeased me.

NEE?
Resolved: the Zombie Apocalypse Will Happen
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The most basic living cell was Intelligently Designed:
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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/26/2014 8:13:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 8:00:58 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:52:27 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:33:04 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:24:58 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 7:02:27 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 6:38:23 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/26/2014 4:33:30 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/26/2014 3:14:39 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:56:21 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:43:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:30:15 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:20:38 AM, pozessed wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:04:17 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/25/2014 8:52:29 AM, pozessed wrote:
I heard that 1 in 4 Americans and 1 in 3 Europeans don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.
I don't believe the statistics but I thought it sounded like a good question to ask here and try to understand other peoples perspectives that don't perceive the Earth to revolve around the sun.

The Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun.

They both revolve around their common centre of gravity.

Therefore only 1/4-1/3 have the right answer, although I am sceptical that they know why :-)

Unless you're implying that the sun is not the common center of gravity the Earth adheres to, they are still wrong. If that is what you wish me to infer, I must ask, what if not the sun is to be considered the common center of gravity that the Earth is revolving around?

Question: Does the Earth revolve around the Sun?
Answer: No

Question: Does the Sun revolve around the Earth?
Answer: No

They both orbit around their barycentre IIRC. In the case of the Earth, the barycentre is actually within the Sun since the Sun is so much larger and the orbit is relatively small, but it doesn't follow the Earth orbits the Sun, it more accurately orbits a point within the Sun which both the Sun and Earth orbit around.

Other planets such as Jupiter and (okay it's no longer a planet but w/e) Pluto have their barycentres outside the Sun itself.

Now try to computate a space crafts trajectory using this semantics argument.

Semantics? It's just basic physics.

And sure, although since the relative mass of the spacecraft is much smaller than the relative mass of the earth and the sun, the barycenter is pretty much the centre of the earth/sun/celestial body. So you can safely just make the assumption the centre of the planet is the centre of the orbit. Which is also basic physics.

Nope, it's just semantics.

It's true that the earth revolves around the sun/earth barycenter but the barycenter of the earth/sun mass distribution happens to be located at a point inside the sum, so it is semantically correct to say the earth revolves around the sun. The barycenter constantly moves around but it's always inside the sun and if you average it's location over time, guess what, that average happens to be located at the center of the sun. Any way you look at it,, it's correct to say that the earth revolves around the sun.

That is not just basic physics, it's also basic semantics.

Actually it doesn't. Since the centre of the sun moves. If you take an 'average sun position' then it's true, they match. But if you take the 'average earth position' it is also exactly at the barycentre, lol.

Nope.

If you really want to be so semantically nitpicky, then you are still incorrect, the Earth does not orbit the barycenter. Like the speed of light, the speed at which the associated gravitational interaction occurs is finite, so there is always around an eight minute delay in the system. The Earth is always orbiting where the barycenter was roughly 8 minutes ago.

I loled. It's true.

I cracked myself up with that one too :)

Because of the complex dynamics of the movement of all the different masses that affect the barycenter (Sun, Earth, Moon, Planets, etc.), the position defining Earth"s orbit moves around in an erratic manner, but at all times that barycenter is located inside the Sun. So no matter how you slice it, according to basic physics and even for the semantically anal retentive, at all times when you define the location of the barycenter, there is an object at that location, the Sun, so it is in fact always the case that the earth is revolving around that object, and hence, the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I never disputed the barycentre is located inside the Sun. I dispute that the Earth revolves around the Sun is an accurate statement. And the one playing semantics here is you, since you are the one trying to equate the barycentre with the Sun itself. And Jupiter & Pluto's barycenter a are not in the Sun, as I already mentioned.

There's a star called the Sun, revolving around that star is a planet called Earth, and that is an accurate statement.

Forget this silliness, there's a guy over in the Philosophy Forum arguing the logic of pedophilia, why don't you go over there and help us all gang tackle him.

Lol, okay, you win.

Lucky for you.

If you didn't stop, I was going to have to say NEE to you until you appeased me.

NEE?

It was a sophisticated literary reference, and I guess it's spelled Ni.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
sadolite
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2/26/2014 8:20:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lucky for you.

If you didn't stop, I was going to have to say NEE to you until you appeased me.

I am wearing a tee shirt right now that says the knights who say Nee but it's spelled Ni on the shirt. Not trying to be a grammarhole, just for future reference.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

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Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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2/26/2014 8:22:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 8:20:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
Lucky for you.

If you didn't stop, I was going to have to say NEE to you until you appeased me.

I am wearing a tee shirt right now that says the knights who say Nee but it's spelled Ni on the shirt. Not trying to be a grammarhole, just for future reference.

Yeah, I caught that when I went and got it for him on Youtube.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater