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# Does the 3rd dimension exist?

 Posts: 9 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PMPosted: 4 years agoIf artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?
 Posts: 8,243 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/6/2014 10:46:46 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?As soon as you touch a two dimensional rendering of a three dimensional surface you know it is two dimensional. In reality, would the depth we can perceive and verify by distance confirm three dimensions? Maybe I am being too simplistic, but this is my opinion as I understand your question.Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects.
 Posts: 155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/7/2014 3:40:20 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?As a graphic artist, I can tell you that we don't accurately portray 3D images on a 2D surface. We simply play on the way the eye/brain see things.For example, we can't see depth properly. The walls of a corridor, for instance, are parallel, but we see them as lines sloping towards each other (to meet at a point on the horizon). We become so used to it that when an artist draws two lines sloping towards the horizon - viol"! We see depth.To further illustrate this, blind/purblind people who've gained sight (through surgery, for instance) find it difficult to see depth in artwork (and in reality as well). They're so used to the real perception of a corridor as parallel lines (from touching the walls) that the illusory sight of a corridor as lines sloping to a horizon freaks them out.And the definitive proof of 3D's reality is that 3D figures don't disappear when they are rotated parallel to the visual field, unlike images on paper.Everything is up for questioning. If it won't defend itself, then how do we know it can?
 Posts: 294 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.
 Posts: 155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.Everything is up for questioning. If it won't defend itself, then how do we know it can?
 Posts: 5,200 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/7/2014 9:00:50 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?I can jump, take a step forward, and take a step sideways without hitting some type of barrier. Try to get a stick man on a piece of paper to do that.
 Posts: 2,446 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/7/2014 10:13:29 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.The dimensions certainly do exist. Draw a stick figure, draw a square around him. On that 2D surface, can the stick figure escape? No, it is 2D, only height and length exist. If I put a 2D square around you then you could escape, in the 3rd spatial dimension (3D) we have depth as well. The 4th spatial dimension (4D) would be able to escape a cube as they would have another direction they could move.#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica #WarOnDDO
 Posts: 294 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.
 Posts: 155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 2:11:17 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.I notice you didn't reply to my post detailing why artists' interpretations don't stand up as an argument against the existence of dimensions.And I think you are creating too narrow a definition for existence. To you, things that exist must be tangible. No, they aren't always. Take numbers, for instance - numbers do not "exist" the way matter and energy physically exist, and one could argue that they are human-engineered concepts with which we interpret the world, but try arguing that that means that numbers aren't "real".Similarly, no-one has ever asserted that dimensions are tangible things that we can grab hold of. They are frames of reference - left/right, up/down, forward/backward, up-toward/down-toward (I think that's what the directions in the fourth spatial dimension are called?). Dimensions, planes, axes - you will never "find" one floating in front of you, just like you will never find a number or even a thought floating in front of you, but it's absurd to say that that doesn't make them "real".Everything is up for questioning. If it won't defend itself, then how do we know it can?
 Posts: 491 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?
 Posts: 294 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 10:42:29 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?A concept/notion/idea. Relevant only to the mind.
 Posts: 155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 10:59:34 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 10:42:29 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?A concept/notion/idea. Relevant only to the mind.No, now I'm actually concerned. Please define dimensions as you understand them, so we'll be clear on what exactly we're arguing about.Everything is up for questioning. If it won't defend itself, then how do we know it can?
 Posts: 294 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 11:25:53 AMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 10:59:34 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/8/2014 10:42:29 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?A concept/notion/idea. Relevant only to the mind.No, now I'm actually concerned. Please define dimensions as you understand them, so we'll be clear on what exactly we're arguing about.Already did define them...You mean what are thoughts made of? They are the process of matter, to which existence the matter itself is necessary.
 Posts: 491 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 12:32:28 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 10:42:29 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?A concept/notion/idea. Relevant only to the mind.No. A dimension is kind of like a direction for moving in. Humans can move in three. Forwards and back. Left and right. Up and down. Those are the three we can move through. The fourth is time. We can kind of move through that but only forwards and not purposefully. I have no idea what the other 7 are.
 Posts: 294 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 1:30:54 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 12:05:16 PM, jewelessien wrote:Nevertheless, it would be absurd to say that dimensions don't "exist", because "the minimum number of coordinates required to specify the position of a body in space" exists.They can apply to things when "viewing" or "measuring" them in our minds. Our senses pick up a fragment of matter's influence or even matter in process, which in turn is translated into another kind of influence/change when it hits our senses. Which then is received by our brain which translates it into notions. When receiving many of those "notions", we perceive in the mind a difference between them - the basis of "dimensions" and all other ways of measuring.These dimensions and all are merely for more comfortable understanding and mental perception."Space" is part of the process as well. Unless you're referring to conceptional space.And frankly, I'm not sure Hollywood or any other movie industry is credible at all when it comes to science. They maximize entertainment value, not accuracy.They sure aren't credible. But what is relevant is how they impact the mind and understanding of an "average" mind that doesn't bother much with thinking in the first place. They just see and believe, more so the better special effects...
 Posts: 294 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 1:38:02 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 12:32:28 PM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/8/2014 10:42:29 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?A concept/notion/idea. Relevant only to the mind.No. A dimension is kind of like a direction for moving in. Humans can move in three. Forwards and back. Left and right. Up and down. Those are the three we can move through. The fourth is time. We can kind of move through that but only forwards and not purposefully. I have no idea what the other 7 are.When you talk about "conceptional reality", then sure.But the real reality, the one outside our minds, of the foundation of our existence. Then no.These "dimensions" are not what our world is made of. You are talking of them as if they are. What they are are mere concepts made up by us when perceiving differences of our world, and trying to measure and explain what we perceive. They are supposed to be merely for more comfortable perception and understanding.
 Posts: 491 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 1:42:59 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 1:38:02 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 12:32:28 PM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/8/2014 10:42:29 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 6:04:34 AM, srehtiw wrote:At 3/7/2014 2:11:34 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:34:26 AM, jewelessien wrote:At 3/7/2014 4:25:32 AM, nummi wrote:At 3/6/2014 8:10:25 PM, Spock26 wrote:If artists can accurately portray 3d images on a 2d surface, then how do we know the 3rd dimension exists in real life and is not just an illusion?In real life, in reality, there are no dimensions... This 2d and 3d, etc. thing is nonsense... It only applies when dealing with computer generated designs and drawing pictures, sketches, etc. This dimension thing does not apply to actual reality.Tell that to practically all of physics and a large portion of math.These are merely our interpretations of our world - maths, drawings, etc. What I said still applies.Our world is made of matter/energy that affects itself. Process of matter/energy - we are part of this, as is everything we perceive with our senses. There are no dimensions other than those made up in our minds.Before I reply to this I have to ask just to be sure. Do you know what a dimension is?A concept/notion/idea. Relevant only to the mind.No. A dimension is kind of like a direction for moving in. Humans can move in three. Forwards and back. Left and right. Up and down. Those are the three we can move through. The fourth is time. We can kind of move through that but only forwards and not purposefully. I have no idea what the other 7 are.When you talk about "conceptional reality", then sure.But the real reality, the one outside our minds, of the foundation of our existence. Then no.These "dimensions" are not what our world is made of. You are talking of them as if they are. What they are are mere concepts made up by us when perceiving differences of our world, and trying to measure and explain what we perceive. They are supposed to be merely for more comfortable perception and understanding.No. The universe is not made of them. They simply exists within it. So just to understand your position. Do you think there is any physical difference between me walking forwards and backwards and me walking left and right?
 Posts: 155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 1:48:33 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 1:30:54 PM, nummi wrote:At 3/8/2014 12:05:16 PM, jewelessien wrote:Nevertheless, it would be absurd to say that dimensions don't "exist", because "the minimum number of coordinates required to specify the position of a body in space" exists.They can apply to things when "viewing" or "measuring" them in our minds. Our senses pick up a fragment of matter's influence or even matter in process, which in turn is translated into another kind of influence/change when it hits our senses. Which then is received by our brain which translates it into notions. When receiving many of those "notions", we perceive in the mind a difference between them - the basis of "dimensions" and all other ways of measuring.These dimensions and all are merely for more comfortable understanding and mental perception."Space" is part of the process as well. Unless you're referring to conceptional space.Okay, now you've lost me. "Part of the process"? What the heck is "the process"?And yes, dimensions exist independent of humanity's thoughts. Whether or not there are humans in the galaxy, there will still be three coordinates required to specify the position of a body in our "reality", which is three-dimensional space. Motion would still exist, and thus dimensions of motion. Or are you arguing that directions would not exist without humans? The fact that humans tag a concept onto a phenomenon does not change the underlying fact of said phenomenon - without us, they would not be called "up" or "down" or whatever, but the phenomenon of directional motion would remain.And frankly, I'm not sure Hollywood or any other movie industry is credible at all when it comes to science. They maximize entertainment value, not accuracy.They sure aren't credible. But what is relevant is how they impact the mind and understanding of an "average" mind that doesn't bother much with thinking in the first place. They just see and believe, more so the better special effects...Still irrelevant. Heck, entertainment media is stupid, and anyone who takes lessons from it is in the same category. Or are we also supposed to believe what Hollywood movies tell us about computers (like how they never seem to have a mouse, or how entire hard disks of files can be conveniently uploaded/downloaded in seconds)?Everything is up for questioning. If it won't defend itself, then how do we know it can?
 Posts: 11 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 1:51:31 PMPosted: 4 years agoWell, the second dimension is completely flat, and we live in a 3D world. If I would question any of the dimensions, it would be the fourth dimension- time.
 Posts: 155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 3/8/2014 2:05:20 PMPosted: 4 years agoAt 3/8/2014 1:51:31 PM, alexmiller887 wrote:Well, the second dimension is completely flat, and we live in a 3D world. If I would question any of the dimensions, it would be the fourth dimension- time.No, the second dimension is not flat. Two - dimensional space is flat. The second dimension is simply a second coordinate.And I've said above why time is considered a dimension - in our universe, time is one of the coordinates necessary to accurately specify the position of a body in space.Everything is up for questioning. If it won't defend itself, then how do we know it can?