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Global Warm-ists and where they go wrong.

slo1
Posts: 4,337
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3/7/2014 10:57:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
With the cold winter, drought in CA, and all the weather events, I am hearing so much chatter in the news about global warming is causing more adverse weather events.

I'm calling bs on that. I have yet to see statistically strong data that indicates the storms and events are more violent, longer duration, or more variable.

It almost seems since the right is so far in denial and the left has taken hook line and sinker that we are going to have global Armageddon the middle that can look at it objectively has gotten squeezed out.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,483
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3/7/2014 12:41:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 10:57:40 AM, slo1 wrote:
With the cold winter, drought in CA, and all the weather events, I am hearing so much chatter in the news about global warming is causing more adverse weather events.

I'm calling bs on that. I have yet to see statistically strong data that indicates the storms and events are more violent, longer duration, or more variable.

It almost seems since the right is so far in denial and the left has taken hook line and sinker that we are going to have global Armageddon the middle that can look at it objectively has gotten squeezed out.

Plus which, they seem to have slept through thermodynamics class. Energy gain (more severe weather) is quite different from temperature gain, which is different from heat gain. Of these three elements, temperature is the least significant. They're interrelated - if heat energy gets transferred into wind, say, temperature will go down.

So, yeah, I don't even see where global warming has a measurable definition yet.
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slo1
Posts: 4,337
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3/7/2014 12:58:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 12:41:20 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/7/2014 10:57:40 AM, slo1 wrote:
With the cold winter, drought in CA, and all the weather events, I am hearing so much chatter in the news about global warming is causing more adverse weather events.

I'm calling bs on that. I have yet to see statistically strong data that indicates the storms and events are more violent, longer duration, or more variable.

It almost seems since the right is so far in denial and the left has taken hook line and sinker that we are going to have global Armageddon the middle that can look at it objectively has gotten squeezed out.

Plus which, they seem to have slept through thermodynamics class. Energy gain (more severe weather) is quite different from temperature gain, which is different from heat gain. Of these three elements, temperature is the least significant. They're interrelated - if heat energy gets transferred into wind, say, temperature will go down.

So, yeah, I don't even see where global warming has a measurable definition yet.

I'm not on the same page. The measurable definition is the average temperature of atmosphere, upper crust and water on the earth. The temperature gain overall is an energy gain. Heat = energy.

I think you are forgetting that we get continuous new energy from the Sun. With that said since the earth spins we get energy on only one side at a time so the opposite side has time to release energy back into space. That in fact is how CO2, methane, and other gasses are proven to increase temperature. They inhibit some of the heat radiation from exiting the atmosphere.

My contention is that the increased energy (which whether believed to be human CO2 caused or part of a natural cycle) is a fact as measured by the average temp. The average temp is UP. It appears there is not some heat sink storing heat that we don't know about it, so energy is increased on earth.

That however does not automatically relate to increased violence storms and suddenly a particularly violent summer of tornadoes is due to global warming. We are still well within our natural variance.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,483
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3/7/2014 1:57:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 12:58:19 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 12:41:20 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/7/2014 10:57:40 AM, slo1 wrote:
With the cold winter, drought in CA, and all the weather events, I am hearing so much chatter in the news about global warming is causing more adverse weather events.

I'm calling bs on that. I have yet to see statistically strong data that indicates the storms and events are more violent, longer duration, or more variable.

It almost seems since the right is so far in denial and the left has taken hook line and sinker that we are going to have global Armageddon the middle that can look at it objectively has gotten squeezed out.

Plus which, they seem to have slept through thermodynamics class. Energy gain (more severe weather) is quite different from temperature gain, which is different from heat gain. Of these three elements, temperature is the least significant. They're interrelated - if heat energy gets transferred into wind, say, temperature will go down.

So, yeah, I don't even see where global warming has a measurable definition yet.

I'm not on the same page. The measurable definition is the average temperature of atmosphere, upper crust and water on the earth.

And how do you measure that, exactly? You don't, of course, you can only make approximations and hope they are representative.

The temperature gain overall is an energy gain. Heat = energy.


No, I'm afraid that's just wrong. Just think of "wind chill factor" for a common example. The amount of heat you lose (which is what makes you cold) can vary widely at the same temperature. Temperature does NOT equal heat or energy. The principle of air conditioning is that by changing pressure on a gas you can radically change it's temperature (same heat content on the hot and cold side) and thus get the heat to transfer where you want it.

... That in fact is how CO2, methane, and other gasses are proven to increase temperature. They inhibit some of the heat radiation from exiting the atmosphere.

Yeah, that's one factor, but only one. CO2 is also plant food, and plants sequester carbon. There are a lot of feedback cycles in all of this.


My contention is that the increased energy (which whether believed to be human CO2 caused or part of a natural cycle) is a fact as measured by the average temp. The average temp is UP. It appears there is not some heat sink storing heat that we don't know about it, so energy is increased on earth.


So sure, all else being equal, higher temperature is increased energy. But all else is not equal. There is also that thing called the sun, as you mentioned, that's one rather large 'all else' factor..

That however does not automatically relate to increased violence storms and suddenly a particularly violent summer of tornadoes is due to global warming. We are still well within our natural variance.

That we can agree on. So they say, anyway. All I know is that weather has been weird all my life. It gives us something to talk about. "Everybody talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it" - Mark Twain
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GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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3/7/2014 3:38:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:57:34 PM, v3nesl wrote:
"Everybody talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it" - Mark Twain

Hey, we started seeding clouds and stuff. So there's that, lol.
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