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Are Pills Over Emphasized In Psychiatry ?

Iredia
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3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.
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Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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3/24/2014 6:18:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

I don't know. But our treatments for mental conditions are a long way behind our treatments for anything else. There are several unique problems in addressing mental illnesses (not to mention the blood/brain barrier) which have hindered the progress in this field. But it is tricking along slowly....
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AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/24/2014 6:27:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think so, yes. I think that the brain will build what it's going to build, that pills will only work in conjunction with want. I think this is the reason so many people meet god when they take hallucinogens.
R0b1Billion
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3/24/2014 7:53:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Pills are overemphasized in medicine, period. It's funny, too, people have something wrong and go to the hospital in part because they expect pills. I've turned down medications on several occasions when I didn't need it, and just the fact that I would have to do that is a testament to how over-prescribed they are.

Modern medicine troubles me greatly. On one hand, it is the shining star of technological achievement. I could criticize electronic media and all sorts of tech that harms as it fulfills its intended purpose, but medical technology is that one immovable object that it is practically immoral to criticize. I was listening to a space program (water on Mars) some years ago, and one of the callers called in just to say that we should be spending that money on cancer research since that's more important than space exploration.

Medical tech depends heavily on medications, and these medications are very crude. They are not natural, in the sense that these compounds are not "meant" to treat the conditions they are used for. They are substances that our bodies have no natural means to deal with and, while we're trying to get them out of our systems, there's some effect they have (out of hundreds) that actually performs a function that the doctor is looking for. Even the specific function itself is sometimes questionable. And what really bothers me is that a lot of these conditions we have are brought on by our technological lifestyles in the first place.
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Iredia
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3/25/2014 1:58:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 6:30:48 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I met god once. Nice guy.

Was he you ?
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AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/25/2014 3:33:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 1:58:12 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/24/2014 6:30:48 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I met god once. Nice guy.

Was he you ?

I imagine so, yes.
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
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3/25/2014 5:49:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

Billion-dollar pharmaceutical industries are known to produce pills when blank-pills are usually more or equally effective on patients because of the placebo effect, and they make billions of profits out of them, really. Scientists are just peer-pressured merchant-pets although some of them are reasonable and honest academics.
Iredia
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3/25/2014 11:14:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 5:49:06 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

Billion-dollar pharmaceutical industries are known to produce pills when blank-pills are usually more or equally effective on patients because of the placebo effect, and they make billions of profits out of them, really. Scientists are just peer-pressured merchant-pets although some of them are reasonable and honest academics.

Sure. The connection to the sale of products from pharmaceutical companies is hard to miss. It is in part because of the placebo effect I think psychotherapy should be explored and employed in treating such disorders.
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Iredia
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3/25/2014 11:15:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 3:33:42 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/25/2014 1:58:12 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/24/2014 6:30:48 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I met god once. Nice guy.

Was he you ?

I imagine so, yes.

Which God do I then believe ? You or CM Punk.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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3/26/2014 8:20:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

It is certainly true that medication is over-prescribed.

Unfortunately, often the fact is some pills are necessary for certain disorders. If someone is clinically depressed it is easy to say "cheer up". But if someone is diabetic, no one would easily say "don't use your insulin".

In both instances not treating the condition can be fatal. Psychotherapy does not always work, as chemical imbalance is a chemical balance. In the same way the diabetic needs the insulin for the chemical imbalance.
Iredia
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3/27/2014 1:51:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 8:20:05 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

It is certainly true that medication is over-prescribed.

Unfortunately, often the fact is some pills are necessary for certain disorders. If someone is clinically depressed it is easy to say "cheer up". But if someone is diabetic, no one would easily say "don't use your insulin".

In both instances not treating the condition can be fatal. Psychotherapy does not always work, as chemical imbalance is a chemical balance. In the same way the diabetic needs the insulin for the chemical imbalance.

Sure. That's why I stated that some people need drugs. But your initial statement show that I'm on the right track. And I don't think psychotherapy has been used much, if at all, in psychiatry. It seems to me the prevailing paradigm is to diagnose a patient's condition and if done, put them on pills.
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Iredia
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3/27/2014 3:15:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This piece is of importance:

". Rosenhan was a sociologist who was interested in the labelling effect of psychiatric diagnoses. What he did, in a classic study, was arrange for normal confederates of his to get admitted to a psychiatric hospital. He arranged for them to present themselves saying they were hearing a voice, saying a single word. There were three variations in the trial - either the pseudopatient said they were hearing the voice say "thud", "hollow" or "empty". This was the only symptom they had. No delusions or thought disorder or other symptoms of mental
illness. Just a simple hallucination, and even then just one word, which is not particularly characteristic of mental illness. What happened to these pseudopatients? All of them were admitted to psychiatric hospital. After admission they stopped feigning their symptom of hearing a voice. Some of the real patients detected that they were pseudopatients, because they saw them writing notes about their experience. What diagnoses did they receive? All of them apart from one received a diagnosis of schizophrenia - the one who did not was diagnosed as manic-depressive. There is some qualification to this because although they had acquired a psychiatric diagnosis they were noted to be in remission, improved or asymptomatic. The response of the psychiatric establishment to this study was disbelief. Rosenhaum therefore informed the staff of a research and teaching hospital that at some time during the following three months, one or more pseudopatients would attempt to be admitted. No such attempt was actually made. Yet approximately 10% of real patients were suspected by two or more staff members to be pseudopatients. Rosenhan concluded from this that psychiatric diagnosis is subjective and does not reflect inherent patient characteristics."

Culled from http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com...
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iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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3/27/2014 3:45:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 1:51:42 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/26/2014 8:20:05 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

It is certainly true that medication is over-prescribed.

Unfortunately, often the fact is some pills are necessary for certain disorders. If someone is clinically depressed it is easy to say "cheer up". But if someone is diabetic, no one would easily say "don't use your insulin".

In both instances not treating the condition can be fatal. Psychotherapy does not always work, as chemical imbalance is a chemical balance. In the same way the diabetic needs the insulin for the chemical imbalance.

Sure. That's why I stated that some people need drugs. But your initial statement show that I'm on the right track. And I don't think psychotherapy has been used much, if at all, in psychiatry. It seems to me the prevailing paradigm is to diagnose a patient's condition and if done, put them on pills.

Absolutely I agree, but only to a point. If brain chemicals are not correct, there is no amount of therapy that will correct it. In such circumstances you have to resort to medication.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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3/27/2014 3:47:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 3:15:34 AM, Iredia wrote:
This piece is of importance:

". Rosenhan was a sociologist who was interested in the labelling effect of psychiatric diagnoses. What he did, in a classic study, was arrange for normal confederates of his to get admitted to a psychiatric hospital. He arranged for them to present themselves saying they were hearing a voice, saying a single word. There were three variations in the trial - either the pseudopatient said they were hearing the voice say "thud", "hollow" or "empty". This was the only symptom they had. No delusions or thought disorder or other symptoms of mental
illness. Just a simple hallucination, and even then just one word, which is not particularly characteristic of mental illness. What happened to these pseudopatients? All of them were admitted to psychiatric hospital. After admission they stopped feigning their symptom of hearing a voice. Some of the real patients detected that they were pseudopatients, because they saw them writing notes about their experience. What diagnoses did they receive? All of them apart from one received a diagnosis of schizophrenia - the one who did not was diagnosed as manic-depressive. There is some qualification to this because although they had acquired a psychiatric diagnosis they were noted to be in remission, improved or asymptomatic. The response of the psychiatric establishment to this study was disbelief. Rosenhaum therefore informed the staff of a research and teaching hospital that at some time during the following three months, one or more pseudopatients would attempt to be admitted. No such attempt was actually made. Yet approximately 10% of real patients were suspected by two or more staff members to be pseudopatients. Rosenhan concluded from this that psychiatric diagnosis is subjective and does not reflect inherent patient characteristics."

Culled from http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com...

Certainly, but that also what makes psychiatric diagnosis inherently difficult as you have to trust what the person is telling you as you cannot go inside their mind.

In this case medication will not work, but psychoanalysis will not work either. The patient has to be honest and the doctor has to trust them to fix the problem.
slo1
Posts: 4,351
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4/2/2014 7:14:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/25/2014 5:49:06 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 6:08:24 PM, Iredia wrote:
One gets the feeling they are. It could be that mild cases of ADHD can easily be managed by proper parental care. And that some cases of depression would require relaxation techniques given stress, or be due to deeper issues. The same for personality disorders like BPD or schizophrenia. I'm certainly not saying drugs are useless, some people need them). I am asking whether the usage of pills is overemphasized and psychotherapy needs to be accepted more.

Billion-dollar pharmaceutical industries are known to produce pills when blank-pills are usually more or equally effective on patients because of the placebo effect, and they make billions of profits out of them, really. Scientists are just peer-pressured merchant-pets although some of them are reasonable and honest academics.

The FDA rarely allows drug approvals if they have not clearly demonstrated a significant statistical level of effectiveness over a placebo.

What examples do you have where the pharmaceutical industry has gotten a drug approved that did not show superiority over a placebo?
slo1
Posts: 4,351
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4/2/2014 7:18:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is just freshly in. Anti anxiety drugs and sleeping pills were linked to an increase risk of death.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

would be interesting to figure out if the link is due to the drugs or due to the underlining condition the drugs were prescribed for.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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4/2/2014 9:03:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/2/2014 7:18:03 AM, slo1 wrote:
This is just freshly in. Anti anxiety drugs and sleeping pills were linked to an increase risk of death.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...


would be interesting to figure out if the link is due to the drugs or due to the underlining condition the drugs were prescribed for.

Interesting, I would have to read the full study. But it raises the question would these people have died early due to sleep deprivation illness anyway, and the shortened life time is this still an elongation. I think the authors are right to say its not conclusive but needs more study.
vinter
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4/4/2014 8:45:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Whatever the case, it's a sad excuse for a permanent solution. At best they function as a short term breathing space, but the side effects would not have been rationalized if it concerned a less stigmatized group. It's about time we try to understand ourselves better (This concerns everyone, deciphering the brain) and make an effort to offer a better life to those who need it most. Being tortured by your own brain on a daily basis is not an acceptable situation.