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God and Cosmology

Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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4/14/2014 5:10:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is so much evidence for God in cosmology, I thought I would share some an encourage you guys to post some more.

Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life, and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.
Floid
Posts: 751
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4/14/2014 6:13:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life

While proving the fine-tuning argument is impossible, to even give it sufficient weight you would have to prove that the big bang we have observed was the only big bang (i.e. there has not been a cycle of them) and that this is the only universe. You can do neither, in fact it seems likely both of those assumptions are false.

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

The big bang produced all the entropy in the known universe...
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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4/14/2014 7:24:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 6:13:13 AM, Floid wrote:
Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life

While proving the fine-tuning argument is impossible, to even give it sufficient weight you would have to prove that the big bang we have observed was the only big bang (i.e. there has not been a cycle of them) and that this is the only universe. You can do neither, in fact it seems likely both of those assumptions are false.

Actually it's more likely both those assumptions are true. If there were a cycle of Big Bangs and Big crunches then black holes would dominate our universe. If at any one period of deflation, deflation ocured too rapidly, perturbations in space time would make tonnes of black holes. We do not observe tonnes of black holes however. Therefore, this cyclical Big Bang notion is probably false. Also if there were more than one universe then it is still amazing there are intelligent interactive observers of even one universe in this multiverse, it doesn't diminish the fine-tuning argument very much.

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

The big bang produced all the entropy in the known universe...

It created some entropy, but not much more than was originally there , an ordinary explosion of matter and energy would have created much more.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/17/2014 7:41:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 5:10:39 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
There is so much evidence for God in cosmology, I thought I would share some an encourage you guys to post some more.

Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life,

Any intelligent life that emerges will find it's self in an environment which is compatible with it existence. A life form will never find it's self in a non life permitting universe now will it ?

This creates a huge bias in the data, and without taking it into account will lead you into unjustified conclusions.

I would also add you may want to consider that plus the fact that we don't live in an "ideal" existence for human life to thrive. Might want to think about that before you start thinking you were the product of some great plan by a well meaning intelligence who only has good things in mind for you.

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

I have no idea what the difference is between entropy existing in the universe where the universe is the product of intent vs absent intent and I doubt either do you.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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4/17/2014 7:56:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 7:41:22 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/14/2014 5:10:39 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
There is so much evidence for God in cosmology, I thought I would share some an encourage you guys to post some more.

Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life,

Any intelligent life that emerges will find it's self in an environment which is compatible with it existence. A life form will never find it's self in a non life permitting universe now will it ?

This creates a huge bias in the data, and without taking it into account will lead you into unjustified conclusions.

I would also add you may want to consider that plus the fact that we don't live in an "ideal" existence for human life to thrive. Might want to think about that before you start thinking you were the product of some great plan by a well meaning intelligence who only has good things in mind for you.

This explanation of fine-tuning relies on an observer self-selection effect, which is contradicted by the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/boltzmann_brain.

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

I have no idea what the difference is between entropy existing in the universe where the universe is the product of intent vs absent intent and I doubt either do you.

Explosions always produce more entropy than is present in the initial conditions for them, unless an intelligence has created them. This is confirmed by every observation ever.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/17/2014 8:02:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 7:56:47 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:41:22 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/14/2014 5:10:39 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
There is so much evidence for God in cosmology, I thought I would share some an encourage you guys to post some more.

Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life,

Any intelligent life that emerges will find it's self in an environment which is compatible with it existence. A life form will never find it's self in a non life permitting universe now will it ?


This creates a huge bias in the data, and without taking it into account will lead you into unjustified conclusions.

I would also add you may want to consider that plus the fact that we don't live in an "ideal" existence for human life to thrive. Might want to think about that before you start thinking you were the product of some great plan by a well meaning intelligence who only has good things in mind for you.

This explanation of fine-tuning relies on an observer self-selection effect, which is contradicted by the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/boltzmann_brain.

Yeah I have heard of the brains before, I will need to read up on that later....

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

I have no idea what the difference is between entropy existing in the universe where the universe is the product of intent vs absent intent and I doubt either do you.

Explosions always produce more entropy than is present in the initial conditions for them, unless an intelligence has created them. This is confirmed by every observation ever.

If your going to state something is always the case cause we don't observe any different then.......

We don't observe causality outside of time and space (ergo no timeless God can producing anything)

We don't observe minds existing independently without a brain

We don't observe "minds" being able to produce physical effects without a corresponding physical body (where is your God now ?)

You really want to rely on that reasoning ? you could always special plead I guess....but you wouldn't do that would you ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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4/17/2014 8:07:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:02:51 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:56:47 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:41:22 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/14/2014 5:10:39 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
There is so much evidence for God in cosmology, I thought I would share some an encourage you guys to post some more.

Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life,

Any intelligent life that emerges will find it's self in an environment which is compatible with it existence. A life form will never find it's self in a non life permitting universe now will it ?


This creates a huge bias in the data, and without taking it into account will lead you into unjustified conclusions.

I would also add you may want to consider that plus the fact that we don't live in an "ideal" existence for human life to thrive. Might want to think about that before you start thinking you were the product of some great plan by a well meaning intelligence who only has good things in mind for you.

This explanation of fine-tuning relies on an observer self-selection effect, which is contradicted by the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/boltzmann_brain.


Yeah I have heard of the brains before, I will need to read up on that later....

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

I have no idea what the difference is between entropy existing in the universe where the universe is the product of intent vs absent intent and I doubt either do you.

Explosions always produce more entropy than is present in the initial conditions for them, unless an intelligence has created them. This is confirmed by every observation ever.

If your going to state something is always the case cause we don't observe any different then.......

We don't observe causality outside of time and space (ergo no timeless God can producing anything)

We don't observe minds existing independently without a brain

We don't observe "minds" being able to produce physical effects without a corresponding physical body (where is your God now ?)

You really want to rely on that reasoning ? you could always special plead I guess....but you wouldn't do that would you ?

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/17/2014 8:11:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:07:17 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:02:51 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:56:47 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:41:22 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/14/2014 5:10:39 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
There is so much evidence for God in cosmology, I thought I would share some an encourage you guys to post some more.

Some of this evidence is the fine-tuning of the initial conditions of the universe for intelligent life,

Any intelligent life that emerges will find it's self in an environment which is compatible with it existence. A life form will never find it's self in a non life permitting universe now will it ?


This creates a huge bias in the data, and without taking it into account will lead you into unjustified conclusions.

I would also add you may want to consider that plus the fact that we don't live in an "ideal" existence for human life to thrive. Might want to think about that before you start thinking you were the product of some great plan by a well meaning intelligence who only has good things in mind for you.

This explanation of fine-tuning relies on an observer self-selection effect, which is contradicted by the Boltzmann Brain hypothesis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/boltzmann_brain.


Yeah I have heard of the brains before, I will need to read up on that later....

and the second is the fact that the Big Bang (an explosion of matter and energy) produced no entropy. A natural explosion would create much more entropy. The only explosions that don't do that are created by an intelligent source.

I have no idea what the difference is between entropy existing in the universe where the universe is the product of intent vs absent intent and I doubt either do you.

Explosions always produce more entropy than is present in the initial conditions for them, unless an intelligence has created them. This is confirmed by every observation ever.

If your going to state something is always the case cause we don't observe any different then.......

We don't observe causality outside of time and space (ergo no timeless God can producing anything)

We don't observe minds existing independently without a brain

We don't observe "minds" being able to produce physical effects without a corresponding physical body (where is your God now ?)

You really want to rely on that reasoning ? you could always special plead I guess....but you wouldn't do that would you ?

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.

No f*ck off. If your going down the road off " This is confirmed by every observation ever."

You don't get to have it both ways. Either follow that rules always, or disregard it, but you don't get to choose when it comes into play and when it does ok ?

So which is it ? should we use that rule to determine what is or isn't possible or should we not ?

Either way..........your screwed.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12