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AIG and Mutation FAIL

sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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2/18/2010 1:26:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://www.answersingenesis.org...

Here is the article. Have at it. What problems do you see in this work? What is wrong with the reasoning? I have my points, but wish to see others. If you support this position, comment also.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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2/18/2010 1:39:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The reasonign of the article is that since most mutations are bad, species wouldn't come into existence.

The fail at this reasoning is that there are thousands, maybe millions, of species. Mutations occur randomly, and one bad mutation won't destroy a whole species. It misses the point that one animal with a bad mutation will die out, or eventually become a new species in its own right.

Since only few species mutate, the loss of these few isn't major. However, when a beneficial mutation occurs, then that mutated species will reproduce and succeed. In short, the article misses the point of evolution.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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2/18/2010 1:39:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 1:39:02 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

The fail at this reasoning is that there are thousands, maybe millions, of animals in a given species. Mutations occur randomly, and one bad mutation won't destroy a whole species. It misses the point that one animal with a bad mutation will die out, or eventually become a new species in its own right.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted. Let's say a man gets two heads instead of one, or one head with one and a half eye, which is either a duplication or malformation. If we say that the fittest species survive, they would need to adapt into their environment in order to survive. It means that a specie without wings must develop wings in order to survive, i.e. fly into the air to get food. This is the theory that covers both adaption and mutation. However, when mutations occur, they do not make any specie capable of adapting into an environment. It means that no mutation at all can cause wings to develop on any animal in order for the animal to survive. It's about what species already have. That can either be duplicated or malformed.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/18/2010 4:34:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted.

Most mutations have null effect.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/18/2010 4:40:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 4:34:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted.

Most mutations have null effect.
When mutations occur, they either distort a system or duplicate it. The nuclear bombs that dropped on Japan had caused radioactive waves to be in the free, and many people who are the children of those who got affected are handicapped due to malformations caused by mutations.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/18/2010 4:44:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 4:40:14 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:34:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted.

Most mutations have null effect.
When mutations occur, they either distort a system or duplicate it. The nuclear bombs that dropped on Japan had caused radioactive waves to be in the free, and many people who are the children of those who got affected are handicapped due to malformations caused by mutations.

http://www.talkorigins.org...

Radiation poisoning isn't the major source of mutations, they occur naturally.

Also Hiroshima thing is a bit of an urban myth.

http://www.solarstorms.org...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/18/2010 4:49:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 4:44:08 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:40:14 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:34:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted.

Most mutations have null effect.
When mutations occur, they either distort a system or duplicate it. The nuclear bombs that dropped on Japan had caused radioactive waves to be in the free, and many people who are the children of those who got affected are handicapped due to malformations caused by mutations.

http://www.talkorigins.org...

Radiation poisoning isn't the major source of mutations, they occur naturally.

Also Hiroshima thing is a bit of an urban myth.

http://www.solarstorms.org...
It's not the major source of mutations, of course. But radioactivity does affect cells, even sunlight does.

And that article regarding Hiroshima comes with no major refutations.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/18/2010 4:52:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 4:49:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:44:08 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:40:14 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:34:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted.

Most mutations have null effect.
When mutations occur, they either distort a system or duplicate it. The nuclear bombs that dropped on Japan had caused radioactive waves to be in the free, and many people who are the children of those who got affected are handicapped due to malformations caused by mutations.

http://www.talkorigins.org...

Radiation poisoning isn't the major source of mutations, they occur naturally.

Also Hiroshima thing is a bit of an urban myth.

http://www.solarstorms.org...
It's not the major source of mutations, of course. But radioactivity does affect cells, even sunlight does.

Cell mutation =/= DNA mutation.

And that article regarding Hiroshima comes with no major refutations.

Uhuh.

In 1995, 50 years after the atomic bombings, approximately 50 percent of the survivors were still alive. The exact number is difficult to state, but it could exceed 100,000. (For example, 284,000 survivors were identified in the 1950 census; this would indicate that there were about 142,000 remaining survivors in 1995.)

No genetic effects have been detected in a large sample (nearly 80,000) of offspring. By this, we mean that there is no detectable radiation-related increase in congenital abnormalities, mortality (including childhood cancers), chromosome aberrations, or mutations in biochemically identifiable genes.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/18/2010 4:54:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"In 1948 the Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission (ABCC) initiated a three-phase study to examine this question of birth defect commonality among children of atomic bomb survivors. For six years, all pregnant women in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were required to register their pregnancy by the completion of the fifth lunar month (Neel 3). At the onset of the study, certain dietary staples were rationed in Japan, as they had for most of the war. Pregnant women, however, received additional supplements in order to ensure good health. To establish an accurate subject pool for the study, therefore, the system of surveillance was tied to the process through which pregnant women registered for these supplementary rations. Because of this system, more than 90% of the pregnancies occurring within these cities were appropriately identified (“Are birth…”). Therefore, from the approximate 76,626 births occurring over this six-year period, data of viability, congenital defect, neonatal death, sex, and birth-weight was collected.

Despite these efforts, however, the data showed no significant difference between children of exposed parents from those of unexposed (“Are birth…”). It was argued, however, that a complete record of subjects was not attained due the lack of midwives reporting births. In addition, the legitimacy of the study remained questionable, for even if most pregnancies were in fact recorded, the research team claimed that “…critical data on genetic effects was missed because of ‘delayed’ initiation of the study”

http://artsci.wustl.edu...
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/22/2010 6:28:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/18/2010 4:49:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:44:08 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:40:14 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/18/2010 4:34:25 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/18/2010 3:42:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
When mutations occur, they either make a part of a body duplicated or entirely distorted.

Most mutations have null effect.
When mutations occur, they either distort a system or duplicate it. The nuclear bombs that dropped on Japan had caused radioactive waves to be in the free, and many people who are the children of those who got affected are handicapped due to malformations caused by mutations.

http://www.talkorigins.org...

Radiation poisoning isn't the major source of mutations, they occur naturally.

Also Hiroshima thing is a bit of an urban myth.

http://www.solarstorms.org...
It's not the major source of mutations, of course. But radioactivity does affect cells, even sunlight does.

And that article regarding Hiroshima comes with no major refutations.

Okay, no.

There are two possible ways of looking at Mutations.

One is mutations via radiation.

The other is mutation via transcription error.

Sure, mutations via radiation is usually detrimental, although just sitting infront of your computer, bombards your body with radiation, but that sort of radiation is harmless and pass through your body.

However, what we are specifically talking about, are the mutations that are caused naturally. That is, mutation via transcription error. This is the main drive of Evolution.