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Best Evidence for Evolution

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/4/2010 8:42:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 8:23:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My mom is pressuring me to compile a list of evidence for evolution. Can I have your help?

Tell her to first compile evidence for Christianity.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/4/2010 8:44:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 8:42:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/4/2010 8:23:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My mom is pressuring me to compile a list of evidence for evolution. Can I have your help?

Tell her to first compile evidence for Christianity.

Wat does that have to do with evidence for evolution?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/4/2010 8:50:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 8:44:29 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/4/2010 8:42:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/4/2010 8:23:25 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My mom is pressuring me to compile a list of evidence for evolution. Can I have your help?

Tell her to first compile evidence for Christianity.

Wat does that have to do with evidence for evolution?

Because he just revealed to his Christian mom that he is an atheist and she got all upset about it. She's acting like Christianity is automatically assumed to be true and is asking FREEDO to provide evidence for his rejection of Christianity and embracement of atheism.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/4/2010 8:59:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Talk origins for collated evidence and arguments.

I guess it comes down to whether you want to be right and push that or want a conversation with your mother about respecting your decision no matter how wrong she thinks it may be.
FREEDO
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3/4/2010 9:04:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think the only way she would ever respect my decision is if I converted her. Which would be remarkable. She has already said that absolutely nothing can change her mind.
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fnord
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/4/2010 9:13:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If she wants a conversation on evidence, sure - though the mindset of converting her I'd drop, it's not useful at all. I'd warrant it's not about that at all for her though (she thinks her son is going to hell - it's a fundamental parental concern she is trying to express). :)
Reasoning
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3/4/2010 9:24:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:19:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Thanks. But I could really use some links or videos here.

What are her political views?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Puck
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3/4/2010 9:25:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:19:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Thanks. But I could really use some links or videos here.

Puck wrote:
Talk origins for collated evidence and arguments.
FREEDO
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3/4/2010 9:26:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:24:59 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/4/2010 9:19:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Thanks. But I could really use some links or videos here.

What are her political views?

She's Republican. What does that matter?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Reasoning
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3/4/2010 9:28:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:26:54 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/4/2010 9:24:59 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/4/2010 9:19:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Thanks. But I could really use some links or videos here.

What are her political views?

She's Republican. What does that matter?

I was considering Stefan Molyneux but that wouldn't go over so well.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
PoeJoe
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3/4/2010 9:33:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Freedo, just fake being a Christian until you move out. There's no need to upset your mother like this...much less upset her this much. I know you tout the truth, but you should still have a fundamental want not to destroy your mother's faith in her son. Arguing over evolution will merely make it worse. You say yourself that she won't be convinced, so don't try to convince her. Using your logic, doing so would only be a result of spite, and that's just evil.
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/4/2010 9:39:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:33:18 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Freedo, just fake being a Christian until you move out. There's no need to upset your mother like this...much less upset her this much. I know you tout the truth, but you should still have a fundamental want not to destroy your mother's faith in her son. Arguing over evolution will merely make it worse. You say yourself that she won't be convinced, so don't try to convince her. Using your logic, doing so would only be a result of spite, and that's just evil.

he should just lie to please his mom?

i agree he probably shouldn't bother with the argument since she's not open to it, but to pretend you're something you're not just for the sake of keeping the peace... i mean... if he were gay would you give the same advice?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
FREEDO
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3/4/2010 9:48:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:33:18 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Freedo, just fake being a Christian until you move out. There's no need to upset your mother like this...much less upset her this much. I know you tout the truth, but you should still have a fundamental want not to destroy your mother's faith in her son. Arguing over evolution will merely make it worse. You say yourself that she won't be convinced, so don't try to convince her. Using your logic, doing so would only be a result of spite, and that's just evil.

I've already told her I'm an Atheist.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/4/2010 9:53:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You really shouldn't have to ASK for list of evidence for evolution; you should know enough to make a strong case. If you haven't made case already she will never be converted, that's just the way the average person is.

Besides, as PCP pointed out, evolution has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity is true -- there are no serious, respected Christian philosophers who cling to that young-earth stupidity.

When it comes to the deeper philosophical arguments about the existence of God, you aren't going to get through to her -- don't waste your time. Two perfect examples we have here: GodSands and Atheistman. (I'm taking this to an extreme to make a point, I'm not implying that your mother comes even remotely close to their incredible stupidity). They don't understand it, and they probably never will understand it.

I think it's fair to say that, in America at least, atheists are better at that sort of thing just because it is a rare belief; it's basically the total rejection of what culture would shape us to be and people aren't willing to do that without having thought it through. I don't mean this as a slam against religion, there are plenty of theists I have tremendous respect for, it's just that the average person is not likely to really consider their beliefs, thus they fall in with what they're raised to be.

My dad is sort of an agnostic/deist type, and he knows I'm an atheist. Mom is Catholic and she has no idea. I intend to keep it that way for the simple reason that she wouldn't understand.
PoeJoe
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3/4/2010 10:00:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:39:11 PM, belle wrote:
At 3/4/2010 9:33:18 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Freedo, just fake being a Christian until you move out. There's no need to upset your mother like this...much less upset her this much. I know you tout the truth, but you should still have a fundamental want not to destroy your mother's faith in her son. Arguing over evolution will merely make it worse. You say yourself that she won't be convinced, so don't try to convince her. Using your logic, doing so would only be a result of spite, and that's just evil.

he should just lie to please his mom?

i agree he probably shouldn't bother with the argument since she's not open to it, but to pretend you're something you're not just for the sake of keeping the peace... i mean... if he were gay would you give the same advice?

Homosexuality is a grayer subject. I know many Christians who accept homosexuality as God's design, and I suspect you know many of these types of Christians too. Ultimately, I think, it would depend on how devout FREEDO's mother is.

What is the intrinsic benefit of telling your mother this if you know for sure that it will only make her extremely depressed? You know there is no benefit. If I were in FREEDO's position right now, I'd just fake a reconversion. Like I said, what FREEDO seems to be doing, especially in arguing evolution, is nothing short of evil.
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InsertNameHere
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3/4/2010 10:01:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:59:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If it wasn't that I'm a little bit coo-coo I might actually regret having told her.

Luckily my mom is open-minded...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/4/2010 10:03:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:53:53 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
You really shouldn't have to ASK for list of evidence for evolution; you should know enough to make a strong case. If you haven't made case already she will never be converted, that's just the way the average person is.

Besides, as PCP pointed out, evolution has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity is true -- there are no serious, respected Christian philosophers who cling to that young-earth stupidity.

When it comes to the deeper philosophical arguments about the existence of God, you aren't going to get through to her -- don't waste your time. Two perfect examples we have here: GodSands and Atheistman. (I'm taking this to an extreme to make a point, I'm not implying that your mother comes even remotely close to their incredible stupidity). They don't understand it, and they probably never will understand it.

I think it's fair to say that, in America at least, atheists are better at that sort of thing just because it is a rare belief; it's basically the total rejection of what culture would shape us to be and people aren't willing to do that without having thought it through. I don't mean this as a slam against religion, there are plenty of theists I have tremendous respect for, it's just that the average person is not likely to really consider their beliefs, thus they fall in with what they're raised to be.

My dad is sort of an agnostic/deist type, and he knows I'm an atheist. Mom is Catholic and she has no idea. I intend to keep it that way for the simple reason that she wouldn't understand.

This. This. And this. Excellent post.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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3/4/2010 10:04:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Maybe your evidence will evolve one day... But for now, mostly everything can be refuted. Many Atheist won't even accept the theory.
kfc
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/4/2010 10:05:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
its evil to be honest about what you believe... if it stresses someone else out?

thats ridiculous. you're basically saying that FREEDO should sacrifice and bury part of his identity to fit in with his parents biased beliefs. its not like he's trying to purposely hurt his mom or is taunting her- he is just being honest about what he believes. if it is evil of him to be himself then you have a very screwed up conception of evil.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/4/2010 10:08:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 9:33:18 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Freedo, just fake being a Christian until you move out. There's no need to upset your mother like this...much less upset her this much. I know you tout the truth, but you should still have a fundamental want not to destroy your mother's faith in her son. Arguing over evolution will merely make it worse. You say yourself that she won't be convinced, so don't try to convince her. Using your logic, doing so would only be a result of spite, and that's just evil.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

You don't suppress the truth to please people!

Your worried about his mom losing faith in him, but what about Freedo losing faith in his mom for irrational belief?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/4/2010 10:19:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 10:05:00 PM, belle wrote:
its evil to be honest about what you believe... if it stresses someone else out?

thats ridiculous. you're basically saying that FREEDO should sacrifice and bury part of his identity to fit in with his parents biased beliefs. its not like he's trying to purposely hurt his mom or is taunting her- he is just being honest about what he believes. if it is evil of him to be himself then you have a very screwed up conception of evil.

she said she can't live anymore...

I'd say lay off her a bit..
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
PoeJoe
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3/4/2010 10:20:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 10:05:00 PM, belle wrote:
its evil to be honest about what you believe... if it stresses someone else out?

It's evil to be honest about what you believe to a mother who unconditionally loves you and who, in being honest, will be plagued by the notion that her son will be tortured until infinity to the infinite degree of pain and torture and suffering. What makes it worse is that HE IS TAUNTING HER. Although he knows his mother will absolutely not be convinced, he is still trying to create a comprehensive list for why he believes evolution to be correct...I mean, that's like adding salt to an already open wound. If you don't believe giving your mother suicidal thoughts is evil, then at the very least you should believe that taunting a suicidal person is evil.

At 3/4/2010 10:08:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Your worried about his mom losing faith in him, but what about Freedo losing faith in his mom for irrational belief?

Then I'd suggest that FREEDO, in his view, come out the better person. He should be better than this.
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/4/2010 10:26:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/4/2010 10:19:29 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:

she said she can't live anymore...

I'd say lay off her a bit..

if thats the case, then she's obviously unstable to begin with o.O
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...