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The creationist argument that always fails.

ChristianPunk
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9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.
Otokage
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9/9/2014 9:04:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
In fact, as far as we know, scientists are unable to create life out of non life, and thus this could be considered an evidence against ID, but somehow creationists think this is a proof against abiogenesis...

crazy
ChristianPunk
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9/9/2014 10:10:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 9:04:12 AM, Otokage wrote:
In fact, as far as we know, scientists are unable to create life out of non life, and thus this could be considered an evidence against ID, but somehow creationists think this is a proof against abiogenesis...

crazy

If they are gonna call it Intelligent Design, then what does it make us? I say some of us are intelligent. I'd at least settle with Surperior Intelligent Design. SID. Then I'd buy a shirt with that on it and draw Sid Vicious on there.
LogicalLunatic
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9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.
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ChristianPunk
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9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?
LogicalLunatic
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9/9/2014 2:58:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

The six days was probably in order to set an example for the Israelites. Six days of work and then rest.
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LogicalLunatic
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9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

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Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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9/9/2014 2:59:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:58:53 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

The six days was probably in order to set an example for the Israelites. Six days of work and then rest.

Which is why that is a metaphor. To show a symbolic way of work and rest.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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9/9/2014 3:00:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

Neither does it say 6,000. The 6 days are a metaphor.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/9/2014 3:04:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:00:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

Neither does it say 6,000. The 6 days are a metaphor.

The 6000 year came after the Creation. The word used, "Yom", meant day, as in an ordinary day.
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ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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9/9/2014 3:21:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:04:12 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:00:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

Neither does it say 6,000. The 6 days are a metaphor.

The 6000 year came after the Creation. The word used, "Yom", meant day, as in an ordinary day.

source?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/9/2014 3:23:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:04:12 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:00:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

Neither does it say 6,000. The 6 days are a metaphor.

The 6000 year came after the Creation. The word used, "Yom", meant day, as in an ordinary day.

source?

http://bible-study-lessons.blogspot.com...
A True Work of Art: http://www.debate.org...

Atheist Logic: http://www.debate.org...

Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
ChristianPunk
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9/9/2014 3:28:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:23:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:04:12 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:00:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

Neither does it say 6,000. The 6 days are a metaphor.

The 6000 year came after the Creation. The word used, "Yom", meant day, as in an ordinary day.

source?

http://bible-study-lessons.blogspot.com...

http://www.oldearth.org...
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/9/2014 3:39:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 3:28:14 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:23:13 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:21:56 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:04:12 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 3:00:48 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:59:40 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:56:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/9/2014 2:41:35 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

Not at all. It is merely a comparison, as it is well known that our biological systems are MUCH more complex than a car or an airplane, and that it's the result of millennia of scientific knowledge. Also, even if humans can create, they cannot create from nothing. I see no hypocrisy there. Even if it were a hypocritical statement, that alone wouldn't make it false.
Theistic Evolutionists, on the other hand, must believe that God's not smart enough to have created everything in 6 days, even though Christian doctrine States that God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The bible's word for day has 4 different meanings if you look at the Hebrew word for it.

I don't think that any of those 4 words mean "billion years".

Theistic Evolutionists are being reasonable because if god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he's not smart to make every living being, element and hazard to form in one second. You find it unreasonable that I believe millions of years for creatures to evolve through God's design, yet you find it reasonable for the God who could make anything in seconds, to make everything in 6 days. Note that the 7 day never says it had an evening. So are we still living the 7th day of earth?

Neither does it say 6,000. The 6 days are a metaphor.

The 6000 year came after the Creation. The word used, "Yom", meant day, as in an ordinary day.

source?

http://bible-study-lessons.blogspot.com...

http://www.oldearth.org...

Impressive source.
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Bulproof formally admits to being a troll (Post 16):
http://www.debate.org...
Dragonfang
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9/9/2014 6:50:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So... According to you, if something which features of design and engineering beyond what human intelligence is capable of exists, then it is made by a zero-IQ entity?

The whole situation is like toddlers trying to figure out how a nuclear submarine or a spaceship came to be. The evolutionist group believes and argues that it eventually evolved through random processes, and the parts self-assembled through some mysterious selection process.
ChristianPunk
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9/9/2014 8:18:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/9/2014 6:50:41 PM, Dragonfang wrote:
So... According to you, if something which features of design and engineering beyond what human intelligence is capable of exists, then it is made by a zero-IQ entity?

The whole situation is like toddlers trying to figure out how a nuclear submarine or a spaceship came to be. The evolutionist group believes and argues that it eventually evolved through random processes, and the parts self-assembled through some mysterious selection process.

No evolutionist will say spaceships were evolved? We put them together.

According to me, the design of something beyond human intelligence is made by one with high intelligence. It's people who use the argument I quoted that assume God thinks just like them and is equal when it comes to intelligence. After all, the supposed science is intelligent design with it's name.
joepalcsak
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9/10/2014 8:41:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.

I have a question for you: do you believe that purely natural processes could ever produce a modern sophisticated building or a car? Why or why not? If so, please provide details. If not, then you are making the point which you claim is a failure: specifically, that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agents in certain features of physical effects.

Thanks
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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9/10/2014 9:46:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 8:41:26 AM, joepalcsak wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.


I have a question for you: do you believe that purely natural processes could ever produce a modern sophisticated building or a car? Why or why not? If so, please provide details. If not, then you are making the point which you claim is a failure: specifically, that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agents in certain features of physical effects.

Thanks

I believe that it is impossible for pure natural processes to produce a modern sophisticated building or car. If evidence shows up that it can somehow be done, then I will admit I was wrong. The parts to a car or building are not alive or are capable of producing life. So they don't meet the standards of life as well as the ability to evolve and adapt. Certain metals or other non live things can be bent into shapes, but it's not evolving to have new features that are permanent.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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9/10/2014 12:33:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 9:46:44 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/10/2014 8:41:26 AM, joepalcsak wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.


I have a question for you: do you believe that purely natural processes could ever produce a modern sophisticated building or a car? Why or why not? If so, please provide details. If not, then you are making the point which you claim is a failure: specifically, that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agents in certain features of physical effects.

Thanks

I believe that it is impossible for pure natural processes to produce a modern sophisticated building or car. If evidence shows up that it can somehow be done, then I will admit I was wrong. The parts to a car or building are not alive or are capable of producing life. So they don't meet the standards of life as well as the ability to evolve and adapt. Certain metals or other non live things can be bent into shapes, but it's not evolving to have new features that are permanent.

The carbon-based chemicals & chemical reactions that make up the bulk of living systems are so because they are coupled in a manner so as to make them evolve and adapt. The corpse of anything can't evolve or adapt, it is a mere fodder for natural forces (eg heat) to destroy. Whenever you see a system that evolves and adapts to a change of variables (eg light, temperature) in its environment you can rightly infer a Creator/intelligent designer because mental sharpness is crucial to building such systems.

To suggest that because living things are based on organic chemistry they are exempt from this rule is not only to be deny the evidence but to ignore the fact that it isn't chemistry that makes life possible but the organization of chemical systems_you buy into the lie of scientific materialism. Destroy systems (eg brains in mammals) or change parameters in which they thrive and life is endangered. This is why ID/creationism will always be superior to the TOE. Natural forces are repeatedly shown and known to be incapable of creating even rudimentary coded systems talkless of the highly complex one that 'simple' lifeforms like bacteria are.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
joepalcsak
Posts: 409
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9/10/2014 6:07:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 9:46:44 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/10/2014 8:41:26 AM, joepalcsak wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.


I have a question for you: do you believe that purely natural processes could ever produce a modern sophisticated building or a car? Why or why not? If so, please provide details. If not, then you are making the point which you claim is a failure: specifically, that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agents in certain features of physical effects.

Thanks

I believe that it is impossible for pure natural processes to produce a modern sophisticated building or car. If evidence shows up that it can somehow be done, then I will admit I was wrong. The parts to a car or building are not alive or are capable of producing life. So they don't meet the standards of life as well as the ability to evolve and adapt. Certain metals or other non live things can be bent into shapes, but it's not evolving to have new features that are permanent.

Thanks for your answer. I'm sure that you have good reasons for believing that it is impossible for natural processes to produce a building or a car. I know that I do!

The point here is this: you and I have both testified that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agency in physical artifacts (at least some time ) while at the same time, excluding natural processes.

Life is based on information. In fact, the information storage and processing systems of life are the most advanced information storage and processing systems we have ever encountered. The information of life prescribes the construction of molecular machines. Many of these molecular machines are feats of engineering that we can not approach.

It is silly to propose that the most sophisticated information storage and processing system we have ever encountered has arisen through purely natural processes.

It is silly to propose that the most amazing engineering accomplishments we have ever encountered have arisen through purely natural processes.

It is perfectly reasonable to infer that intelligent agency is the cause of both. In fact, intelligent agency is the ONLY reasonable inference we can make!

In short, you have misunderstood the argument. Cars and buildings are examples of physical effects that require the causal explanation of intelligent agency. So is life. Now, if you want to posit that the Living God is the intelligent agent behind life, I would say that this is also very reasonable
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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9/11/2014 7:44:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/10/2014 6:07:04 PM, joepalcsak wrote:
At 9/10/2014 9:46:44 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 9/10/2014 8:41:26 AM, joepalcsak wrote:
At 9/8/2014 9:53:03 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
"Would you think a building or car put itself together by random natural process? Or would you believe it had a designer? The same goes for life on earth."

Here's what ticks me off. Hypocrisy. Normally, when a theist, mainly Christians, use this argument, they don't realize it, but are trying to equal themselves to God by saying they can design LIKE God. They try to put themselves as Gods because of this. If there is anybody on this forum that uses this argument and thinks they are clever, I got a question for you. Could you create a spontaneous set of atoms? Can you control gravity? Can you create systems like the laws of physics and evolution and throw them into the use of our universe? Think before you go saying things like this creationist nonsense.


I have a question for you: do you believe that purely natural processes could ever produce a modern sophisticated building or a car? Why or why not? If so, please provide details. If not, then you are making the point which you claim is a failure: specifically, that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agents in certain features of physical effects.

Thanks

I believe that it is impossible for pure natural processes to produce a modern sophisticated building or car. If evidence shows up that it can somehow be done, then I will admit I was wrong. The parts to a car or building are not alive or are capable of producing life. So they don't meet the standards of life as well as the ability to evolve and adapt. Certain metals or other non live things can be bent into shapes, but it's not evolving to have new features that are permanent.

Thanks for your answer. I'm sure that you have good reasons for believing that it is impossible for natural processes to produce a building or a car. I know that I do!

The point here is this: you and I have both testified that it is possible to detect the activity of intelligent agency in physical artifacts (at least some time ) while at the same time, excluding natural processes.

Life is based on information. In fact, the information storage and processing systems of life are the most advanced information storage and processing systems we have ever encountered. The information of life prescribes the construction of molecular machines. Many of these molecular machines are feats of engineering that we can not approach.

It is silly to propose that the most sophisticated information storage and processing system we have ever encountered has arisen through purely natural processes.

It is silly to propose that the most amazing engineering accomplishments we have ever encountered have arisen through purely natural processes.

It is perfectly reasonable to infer that intelligent agency is the cause of both. In fact, intelligent agency is the ONLY reasonable inference we can make!

In short, you have misunderstood the argument. Cars and buildings are examples of physical effects that require the causal explanation of intelligent agency. So is life. Now, if you want to posit that the Living God is the intelligent agent behind life, I would say that this is also very reasonable

In my view however, God is not us. He wouldn't build like us. He developed the system of natural evolving process and let it come into play. So I believed God created everything using his system of natural process called evolution.

Unless you can find an intelligent agent that clearly and only points to God, then i'll believe you. But many religions claimed this and said that the intelligent agent specifically proves the god of Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, etc.

Saying that he just created things and poof would mean that science is wrong and so that means our medicine is wrong. Creationism (Intelligent Design) is simply saying God created the world and it's inhabitants. Period. I am an evolutionist who believes God made the world, but made it using evolution as his system.
shaddamcorrinoIV
Posts: 106
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9/15/2014 1:04:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
some people try to say that science and religion are incompatible, some say that science and religion compliment each other and have a theistic evolution mind-set. I say that science and religion are equal but separate, science has nothing to do with morals, aesthetics, revelation etc. all of the things religion contributes to.