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Antarctic sea ice reaches record levels

Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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9/15/2014 11:02:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.abc.net.au...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Antarctic sea ice reach record level since the 35 years of satellite imagery. About double the size of Antarctica and three times the size of Australia.

Interesting.
The two explanations provided by AGW proponents is that it is due to global-warming-induced wind patterns.
http://www.newscientist.com...<x>stop-from-now-on.html#.VBcILlfky7d
So wind patterns that caused "temporarily pause" to global warming is also caused by global warming?

The other explanation is that it is due to melted fresh water that is easier to change temperature. "Fresh water is melting on land, but freezing at sea" sounds kinda wrong.
The other explanation is that the glaciers are melting and that fresh water is just easier to freeze. Well, it shouldn't be difficult to make distinction between salty and fresh water to confirm this hypothesis. "Fresh water on land is melting while fresh water on sea is freezing" sounds terribly wrong. Also, what is the mechanism in which fresh water remains unmixed hundreds of kilometers away from the glacier?

Ok. Rant's over. Discuss.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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9/15/2014 12:35:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 11:02:10 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Antarctic sea ice reach record level since the 35 years of satellite imagery. About double the size of Antarctica and three times the size of Australia.

Interesting.
The two explanations provided by AGW proponents is that it is due to global-warming-induced wind patterns.
http://www.newscientist.com...<x>stop-from-now-on.html#.VBcILlfky7d
So wind patterns that caused "temporarily pause" to global warming is also caused by global warming?

The other explanation is that it is due to melted fresh water that is easier to change temperature. "Fresh water is melting on land, but freezing at sea" sounds kinda wrong.
The other explanation is that the glaciers are melting and that fresh water is just easier to freeze. Well, it shouldn't be difficult to make distinction between salty and fresh water to confirm this hypothesis. "Fresh water on land is melting while fresh water on sea is freezing" sounds terribly wrong. Also, what is the mechanism in which fresh water remains unmixed hundreds of kilometers away from the glacier?

Ok. Rant's over. Discuss.

Cold, salty water is much denser than warm, fresher water and will sink below the less dense layer.

http://www.onr.navy.mil...

Also, fresh water does freeze at a higher temperature than saltwater. I expect you already know this, so I'm not going to cite it unless you request it.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
chui
Posts: 507
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9/16/2014 11:03:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 11:02:10 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Antarctic sea ice reach record level since the 35 years of satellite imagery. About double the size of Antarctica and three times the size of Australia.

The sea ice around the antarctic has increased by 4.5% over the last thirty years. Over the same time global temperatures have risen about 0.4 oC and glaciers have continued to shrink and many have completely disappeared.
Melting glaciers contribute to rising sea levels but sea ice makes little difference if any.

Antartic sea-ice has always been about three times the size of Australia. Why do you highlight this fact?

Interesting.
The two explanations provided by AGW proponents is that it is due to global-warming-induced wind patterns.
http://www.newscientist.com...<x>stop-from-now-on.html#.VBcILlfky7d
So wind patterns that caused "temporarily pause" to global warming is also caused by global warming?

I do not see anywhere in the articles you site that it says that global warming has caused the wind patterns that caused the hiatus. The new scientist article states clearly that the hiatus is thought to be the result of natural variation cooling superimposed over an underlying trend of increase. They suggest that while the atmosphere has not warmed the sea has due to recent wind patterns.

The other explanation is that it is due to melted fresh water that is easier to change temperature. "Fresh water is melting on land, but freezing at sea" sounds kinda wrong.

That glaciers are retreating and sea ice increasing is a matter of fact. Whether that "sounds kinds wrong" is not relevant. You do of course understand that melting happens in summer and freezing in winter?

The other explanation is that the glaciers are melting and that fresh water is just easier to freeze. Well, it shouldn't be difficult to make distinction between salty and fresh water to confirm this hypothesis.

Testing whether water is fresh or salt is not difficult, but this is not sufficient to test the hypothesis proposed. It would be necessary to measure the precise salinity of water all round the antarctic, a continent which is larger than Australia, which takes some time. It would probably be necessary to see how the salinity varies over a year. Having measured the data it would then be necessary to compare it to historic records to see if there has been a significant change in salinity that could be linked to increased sea-ice. If sufficiently accurate historic records do not exist then verifying this hypothesis is not possible currently.

"Fresh water on land is melting while fresh water on sea is freezing" sounds terribly wrong.

You mentioned that before. Unless you have definite grounds to doubt this statement then how it 'sounds' to you is still irrelevant. It is as useful as saying you don't like the 'taste' of it.

Also, what is the mechanism in which fresh water remains unmixed hundreds of kilometers away from the glacier?

Mixing takes time. The articles are not saying the water does not mix, but it's reasonable to assume that pouring vast quantities of freshwater into the sea will change the salinity. Whether the change is sufficient to explain sea-ice increase is as yet unproven but remains a hypothesis that ought to be explored if we are to improve our understanding of changes to the global climate.

Ok. Rant's over. Discuss.

I could make a derogatory remark about your poor grasp of the use of the apostrophe, but that would be as relevant as saying something sounds wrong.
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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9/16/2014 1:06:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 11:02:10 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Antarctic sea ice reach record level since the 35 years of satellite imagery. About double the size of Antarctica and three times the size of Australia.

Interesting.
The two explanations provided by AGW proponents is that it is due to global-warming-induced wind patterns.
http://www.newscientist.com...<x>stop-from-now-on.html#.VBcILlfky7d
So wind patterns that caused "temporarily pause" to global warming is also caused by global warming?

The other explanation is that it is due to melted fresh water that is easier to change temperature. "Fresh water is melting on land, but freezing at sea" sounds kinda wrong.
The other explanation is that the glaciers are melting and that fresh water is just easier to freeze. Well, it shouldn't be difficult to make distinction between salty and fresh water to confirm this hypothesis. "Fresh water on land is melting while fresh water on sea is freezing" sounds terribly wrong. Also, what is the mechanism in which fresh water remains unmixed hundreds of kilometers away from the glacier?

Ok. Rant's over. Discuss.

*coughs* Daily Mail *coughs* is useless *coughs*
jh1234lnew
Posts: 225
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9/16/2014 5:37:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/15/2014 11:02:10 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Antarctic sea ice reach record level since the 35 years of satellite imagery. About double the size of Antarctica and three times the size of Australia.

Interesting.
The two explanations provided by AGW proponents is that it is due to global-warming-induced wind patterns.
http://www.newscientist.com...<x>stop-from-now-on.html#.VBcILlfky7d
So wind patterns that caused "temporarily pause" to global warming is also caused by global warming?

The other explanation is that it is due to melted fresh water that is easier to change temperature. "Fresh water is melting on land, but freezing at sea" sounds kinda wrong.
The other explanation is that the glaciers are melting and that fresh water is just easier to freeze. Well, it shouldn't be difficult to make distinction between salty and fresh water to confirm this hypothesis. "Fresh water on land is melting while fresh water on sea is freezing" sounds terribly wrong. Also, what is the mechanism in which fresh water remains unmixed hundreds of kilometers away from the glacier?

Ok. Rant's over. Discuss.

http://www.skepticalscience.com...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/21/2014 2:13:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ice does not melt until the temperature gets above the melting point. The warmest month in Antarctica is January, when the average high temperature soars to -18 degrees. No ice melts at -18, none whatsoever. Now what happens if global warming were to warm things up by a degree? Absolutely nothing. It's still no where near the melting point.

So how much has Antarctic in fact warmed? Actually, Antarctic climate has cooled by about 0.7 degree since 2000. http://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com...

There a tiny peninsula that pokes far enough north to occasionally get above freezing. That tiny region has gotten warmer, while over 99% of the continent gotten colder. So there is no fresh water runoff from the glaciers, and nothing requiring elaborate explanation. There is more ice because it's gotten colder. Okay, it's no quite so simple, because there are ocean currents involved. But the explanation need is why the ice didn't expand earlier than it did.

There a pattern of Arctic Ice diminishing and Antarctic ice increases, then reversing, with a cycle of roughly 60 years. The Arctic was nearly ice free around 1940 and 1880. There are records of Chinese voyages back in the middle ages when the Arctic was ice free. National Geographic Magazine had an article on the periodic thawing and refreezing way back in the 1960s. It's just not a subject for discussion in front of the devout believers in CO2 as the devil.