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If time and space...

Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/27/2014 12:30:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "

How is it meaningless? For an event to occur, it must occur at a certain time and place. If there were no time or space, the the event could not happen. That's what's known as a paradox. Scientists can't explain it. They haven't got a clue.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/27/2014 12:43:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:30:24 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "

How is it meaningless?

I just examined how. You are asking for a sub-property of something that is defined as not having that property. Hence the question is just nonsense and doesn't have an answer.

For an event to occur, it must occur at a certain time and place.

Define 'event', and then justify why it requires time and space.

If there were no time or space, the the event could not happen.

This is just restating your assertion. (Begs the question)

That's what's known as a paradox. Scientists can't explain it. They haven't got a clue.

Neither can anyone else, because the question is meaningless.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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9/27/2014 7:29:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:30:24 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "

How is it meaningless? For an event to occur, it must occur at a certain time and place. If there were no time or space, the the event could not happen. That's what's known as a paradox. Scientists can't explain it. They haven't got a clue.

I think the big bang deals with the expansion of the universe. As such it operates with the stuff already there eg matter/space it just an issue of expansion.

Now if you start asking about what about before that, you know trying to talk about a "before" where there is no time, well how heavy is the number 2 ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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9/27/2014 7:45:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:30:24 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "

How is it meaningless? For an event to occur, it must occur at a certain time and place. If there were no time or space, the the event could not happen. That's what's known as a paradox. Scientists can't explain it. They haven't got a clue.

Jealousy is purple.
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apb4y
Posts: 480
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9/27/2014 7:52:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

The Big Bang occurred everywhere. It wasn't an explosion IN space, but an explosion OF space. In fact, to call it an explosion at all is misleading. It would be more accurate to imagine the universe as like the surface of the Earth: if you go in any direction for long enough, you'll end up back where you started. Now imagine if the Earth's surface area had zero size - that's the Big Bang singularity, and the point at which space and time become meaningless concepts. If that surface area suddenly increases from zero to something bigger than zero, that's your Big Bang.
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/28/2014 11:17:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 7:45:57 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:30:24 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "

How is it meaningless? For an event to occur, it must occur at a certain time and place. If there were no time or space, the the event could not happen. That's what's known as a paradox. Scientists can't explain it. They haven't got a clue.

Jealousy is purple.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've always wondered. ;)
Dr_Obvious
Posts: 551
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9/28/2014 11:20:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/27/2014 7:29:02 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:30:24 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:23:14 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 9/27/2014 12:13:43 PM, Dr_Obvious wrote:
Time and space are a part of the fabric of our universe. I believe it's safe to assume that time and space did not exist before the universe came into existence. We certainly don't have any evidence that they did. So here's a question for you. Without time and space, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang occur?

It's a meaningless question. As Dawkings puts it..

"It's like asking 'what is the colour of jealousy?' "

How is it meaningless? For an event to occur, it must occur at a certain time and place. If there were no time or space, the the event could not happen. That's what's known as a paradox. Scientists can't explain it. They haven't got a clue.

I think the big bang deals with the expansion of the universe. As such it operates with the stuff already there eg matter/space it just an issue of expansion.

Now if you start asking about what about before that, you know trying to talk about a "before" where there is no time, well how heavy is the number 2 ?

The number two has no mass or energy. It's value can be represented in just about any medium you'd care to use, but information is independent of our physical universe.