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What is beyond the end?

thewalruschild
Posts: 2
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9/28/2014 5:51:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was debating whether philosophy or science would be the best place for this topic. I eventually choose science based on the fact.. well.. I would like facts not speculation (which I am aware is all it really comes down to when we dabble this far into the workings of the universe). Also In advance I would like to apologize if this topic has been posted before.

So to begin, What is beyond the end? That may be a misleading title as I am questioning, what was here before anything was here and what is beyond what is here now. I do not have a way with words, so forgive me if what I am saying is somewhat muddled.

Everything originated from one tiny dense spot, if I am correct. How did that spot come to be in the first place. How long was it there before anything happened. It is just so mind blowing I can't being to fathom a rational explanation. How exactly did everything come to be. There must always have been something as nothing can come from nothing (energy cannot be created or destroyed only manipulated). Our universe is expanding, but into what? The nothingness that was there long before us?

It's just crazy to think about it all, that in-fact we are tiny little parasites on this earth, that is just one of many planets in this universe (among many other universes if you are so inclined to believe in that) So to think, all of this is just knocking about in a big vat of emptiness... I just, wow! Blows my tiny mind.

I know us as humans, could not possibly ever comprehend or figure out all the mysteries of the universe, but I am just so curious to know all of the secrets it holds!

Bur anyway, enough of my simple minded rambling, I would like to ask one question. Where did that tiny dense little spot come from? How did it come to be and when it ceases to exist... will it just be a simple nothingness again?

Thank you for taking the time to read my ramblings. I look forward to hearing back from you all, please go easy on me. I'm not the smartest person, I am just looking for answers.
apb4y
Posts: 480
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9/28/2014 4:02:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 5:51:05 AM, thewalruschild wrote:
I was debating whether philosophy or science would be the best place for this topic. I eventually choose science based on the fact.. well.. I would like facts not speculation (which I am aware is all it really comes down to when we dabble this far into the workings of the universe).

It's not even a philosophical question.

Also In advance I would like to apologize if this topic has been posted before.

It's been posted many times before, and will be posted many times again. Don't worry about it.

So to begin, What is beyond the end? That may be a misleading title as I am questioning, what was here before anything was here and what is beyond what is here now. I do not have a way with words, so forgive me if what I am saying is somewhat muddled.

Beyond the end of the universe? There is no end. The universe will eventually settle into a "final energy state", where all the stars, etc, are gone and matter/energy have become meaningless concepts.

Everything originated from one tiny dense spot, if I am correct. How did that spot come to be in the first place.

There is a minimum distance (10^-35 metres) and a minimum time (10^-43 seconds) allowed by Quantum Mechanics. Below these minimum values, space-time is a meaningless concept. Thus, your question is also meaningless.

How long was it there before anything happened. It is just so mind blowing I can't being to fathom a rational explanation.

Start by understanding that humans evolved to hunt and gather. Our brains deal with hunter-gatherer concepts - light or dark, hot or cold, true or false, here or there, past or future, cause and effect. Quantum Mechanics operates on a whole different kind of logic that we can barely cope with. The various theories attempting to incorporate gravity into GM require even more hurdles. Frankly, if your mind isn't blown, then you haven't understood the concept.

How exactly did everything come to be. There must always have been something as nothing can come from nothing (energy cannot be created or destroyed only manipulated).

Energy Conservation works differently on the quantum scale: matter and energy can be created spontaneously, provided that they are balanced by negative amounts of energy and as long as the overall entropy of the system is increased. If you consider that the Big Bang singularity had zero entropy, and must have been in a similar state of flux, it's not hard to see that it would spontaneously form a universe.

Our universe is expanding, but into what? The nothingness that was there long before us?

The universe is more like the surface of the Earth: go far enough in any direction and you'll have looped back around to your starting point. If the Earth suddenly tripled in size, its surface area would expand, but it wouldn't be expanding "into" anything from the perspective of the people living there.

Bur anyway, enough of my simple minded rambling, I would like to ask one question. Where did that tiny dense little spot come from? How did it come to be and when it ceases to exist... will it just be a simple nothingness again?

Not sure what you mean. That "dense spot" was the entire universe, and it's not so dense now.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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9/28/2014 8:58:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Magical Mystery

Thewalruschild:: I was debating whether philosophy or science would be the best place for this topic. I eventually choose science based on the fact.. well.. I would like facts not speculation (which I am aware is all it really comes down to when we dabble this far into the workings of the universe). Also In advance I would like to apologize if this topic has been posted before.

The Eggman: Philosophy is not really detachable from science because the question, "what is science " is itself a philosophical one? Science, whether it's social science and/or natural science are categories of philosophy, and not the other way around.

Thewalruschild: So to begin, What is beyond the end? That may be a misleading title as I am questioning, what was here before anything was here and what is beyond what is here now.

The Eggman: if there is a before anything was here, well then "nothing" was here, and what is beyond Here and Now, is everything else. The point I'm making is that recognizing "one thing" is depended upon it's differentiation of another, like an object from its background, and therefore the answer could be no more clear than the question.
<(89)

Thewalruschild: I do not have a way with words, so forgive me if what I am saying is somewhat muddled.

Everything originated from one tiny dense spot, if I am correct. How did that spot come to be in the first place.

The Eggman: If everything originating from one tiny dent spot, then at the time that dents spot would synonymously be everything.

Thewalruschild: How long was it there before anything happened.

The Eggman: Time itself is a measurement of change. And we've placed time zero at what we consider to be to be the Big Bang. Science is silent on anything before that.

Thewalruschild: It is just so mind blowing I can't being to fathom a rational explanation.

The Eggman: I can't fathom anything that could be considered a valid explanation which is not rational.
<(89)

Thewalruschild: How exactly did everything come to be. There must always have been something as nothing can come from nothing (energy cannot be created or destroyed only manipulated).

The Eggman: I believe you answered your own question.

Thewalruschild: Our universe is expanding, but into what? The nothingness that was there long before us?

The Eggman: Our universe is expanding, is not a fallible claim.

Thewalruschild:: It's just crazy to think about it all, that in-fact we are tiny little parasites on this earth, that is just one of many planets in this universe (among many other universes if you are so inclined to believe in that)

The Eggman: or, or".Oh well I don't know about "universes". I believe the multi-universe speculation it's more of a "language game" than it is a sound theory. The term universe was already supposed to mean everything, we've just found out that we didn't know what everything was, and so now we say there are multi-universes. But it's just different parts of the same universe.

The proof is that to say "there are many universes", explains no more than does saying "that there is one universe with many dimensions."

Thewalruschild: So to think, all of this is just knocking about in a big vat of emptiness... I just, wow! Blows my tiny mind.

The Eggman: What is emptiness really? Is it really empty? If so is it not by its very own definition " nothing". But if it's "nothing" then what are we talking about?
<(8D)

And if it's "something" then the same question arises; what are we talking about?
<(XD)

Thewalruschild: : I know us as humans, could not possibly ever comprehend or figure out all the mysteries of the universe, but I am just so curious to know all of the secrets it holds!

The Eggman: As a human, I don't really know that?
<(89)

Thewalruschild: [But] anyway, enough of my simple minded rambling, I would like to ask one question.

The Eggman: Really, just "One" question?
<(8D)

Thewalruschild: Where did that tiny dense little spot come from? How did it come to be and when it ceases to exist... will it just be a simple nothingness again?

The Eggman: The questions you're asking are dependent upon us "being outside of existence", and looking back in, in which case we would not exist.

In other words, the question is only answerable when we don't exist, and therefore when and only when the question is not relevant, or perhaps, when we have the answer already.
<(89)

Big Perhaps!
<(8D)

Against The Ideologist

The Fool:PERHAPS!
<(XD)
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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9/28/2014 10:59:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/28/2014 5:51:05 AM, thewalruschild wrote:


Everything originated from one tiny dense spot, if I am correct. How did that spot come to be in the first place. How long was it there before anything happened. It is just so mind blowing I can't being to fathom a rational explanation. How exactly did everything come to be. There must always have been something as nothing can come from nothing (energy cannot be created or destroyed only manipulated). Our universe is expanding, but into what? The nothingness that was there long before us?

How many times have you beaten your wife Mr smith ?

Some questions are known as "irrational" cause in the question contains a false assumption.

" How long was it there before anything happened."

This assume that "time" existed in that context, but if time did not to ask how long is irrational.

"How exactly did everything come to be"

This assumes that everything that exists came to be. Again same problem.

I think a more common question might be something like what caused the universe

Again this assumes that causality can be applied to such a context. Alot of people reject this.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Rooster1
Posts: 5
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10/1/2014 8:14:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The infinitely dense and measurable beginning in the BBT naturally begins with an infinity. Infinitely small, infinitely dense, infinite potential, infinite at large all the way around, in every direction. And yet....

This theory is just that. Until gravity and QM are correlated, there exists a void in our understanding of how this whole show began and will progress. The ultimate question for proponents of the BBT is: "Before the BB, what existed? And if the answer is nothing, what does that mean, because nothing equals nothing". I have read theories that there existed potential mass. Other theories that say there was not even potential mass. Either way, if the BB was the start of it all, it came from something. In a void less space, with no mass, no potential energy, no nothing....whence the spark? From nothing is nothing. What was the seed of the BB? Do not say it derived from zero or nothing. It required a seed. Whence for is the seed? Some cute scientist types (I am one btw) will say it came from nothing. Really. I have studied empty vacuum space in the labs, and I can differentiate between true zero none thinness, and so called empty space, a true vacuum never creates.
apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/1/2014 10:44:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 8:14:46 PM, Rooster1 wrote:
The infinitely dense and measurable beginning in the BBT naturally begins with an infinity. Infinitely small, infinitely dense, infinite potential, infinite at large all the way around, in every direction. And yet....

Infinite? No. The infinity is a prediction of General Relativity. It shows that General Relativity doesn't hold in such situations, and that a better theory is required to explain these phenomena.

whence the spark?

Quantum fluctuations. No "spark" needed.

Really. I have studied empty vacuum space in the labs, and I can differentiate between true zero none thinness, and so called empty space, a true vacuum never creates.

You need to study a bit harder. Vacuums spit out virtual particles all the time.