Total Posts:11|Showing Posts:1-11
Jump to topic:

Does Gravity exist without matter?

NewAgeMan
Posts: 3
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?
apb4y
Posts: 480
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2014 5:39:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

"Gravity" is just objects following the curvature of space-time. No matter means no distortion of space-time, and hence no gravity. Of course, without matter the concept of space-time ceases to have relevance, so it's a bit of a moot point.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2014 11:24:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

No. Without matter there would be no energy.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ajabi
Posts: 1,504
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 2:40:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 11:24:45 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

No. Without matter there would be no energy.

In fact matter is energy.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 7:27:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 2:40:05 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/19/2014 11:24:45 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

No. Without matter there would be no energy.

In fact matter is energy.

My point exactly. E=mc^2. Set m=0 and solve, solution is 0, therefore no energy.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
chui
Posts: 507
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 7:32:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:27:08 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 2:40:05 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/19/2014 11:24:45 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

No. Without matter there would be no energy.

In fact matter is energy.

My point exactly. E=mc^2. Set m=0 and solve, solution is 0, therefore no energy.

Alternatively set

E^2= m^2c^4 + p^2c^2 (the expansion of E=mc^2)

set m=0 and get

E=pc

and if p=h/f we get energy without matter eg the photon.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 2:29:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/21/2014 7:27:08 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/21/2014 2:40:05 AM, Ajabi wrote:
At 10/19/2014 11:24:45 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

No. Without matter there would be no energy.

In fact matter is energy.

My point exactly. E=mc^2. Set m=0 and solve, solution is 0, therefore no energy.

If gravity is an effect of the curvature of spacetime, then it only follows that gravity cannot exist without energy IF spacetime cannot be curved in any way except via. matter.

It seems that this is an unjustified assumption, especially in inflationary cosmology, where space-time is thought to ripple and bubble just by virtue of being quantied (assuming that spacetime indeed acts non-classically at small scales). Gravitational waves etc from ripples in the non-symmetrical spacetime doesn't seem to have much to do with matter, although I will be the firs tot say they have yet to be demonstrated to exist. It does rule such a statement premature though, at the least
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 6:11:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This, my friends, is why a biologist should just keep his mouth shut on physics. Because he will be schooled.
Religion Forum Ambassador

HUFFLEPUFF FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
NewAgeMan
Posts: 3
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2014 9:09:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

If I understand correctly, hydrogen atoms clump together to make stars. The more massive it gets the stronger the force of gravity it generates. In the far skies there are still more dusts and gaseous clouds of tiny particles still forming stars in the "star nurseries". However, this is observed to be a very slow process relative to human experience.

Imagine the scenario of having two particles (or particles), say two hydrogen atoms (or more), in the vacuum of space, will they be attracted to each other?

If yes,

Could small particle such as an atom bend space-time?

And,

2. Is space-time bent on one plane? If so, how did the Oort Cloud form?

If not, how does space-time get curved by matter?
tabularasa
Posts: 200
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/23/2014 7:46:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If there is no matter, there are no singular items. If there are not singular items, one thing cannot gravitate to another thing, since there are no things.
1. I already googled it.

2. Give me an argument. Spell it out. "You're wrong," is not an argument.
Floid
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2014 9:07:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/19/2014 1:59:34 PM, NewAgeMan wrote:
Could the force of Gravity exist without matter. We can see and experience the effect of the force of gravity here on earth and in the far distance in space. All because matter attracting each other to form bigger clumps and so on.

But, what if there weren't any matter? Remove all the matter from the universe; in complete vacuum, does Gravity still exist?

Depends on what you mean by "does gravity still exist".

An analogy: in a perfect vacuum there is no sound. Does this mean
sound does not exist? Yes and no. There is no sound in a vacuum. However, the physical principles that cause sound still exist there just aren't the required ingredients to cause it to happen (a medium through which pressure changes can occur).

So if we removed all matter from the universe does gravity still exist? Well, there is no force to be detected in that state (much less something to detect it with). But if you reintroduced matter and detected gravity then "gravity" existed the entire time (the mechanism that causes gravity) it just didn't have the required ingredients to act on.