Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

Universe has meaning, because it exists.

CountCheechula
Posts: 29
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 4:01:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If it exists it has a purpose, universe exists therefore it has purpose, something with purpose was created with meaning, not by chance.
Every man shall kneel and every tongue will confess.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 4:40:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:01:09 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
If it exists it has a purpose, universe exists therefore it has purpose, something with purpose was created with meaning, not by chance.

You forgot to demonstrate that everything that exists have a purpose.
Subutai
Posts: 3,216
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 5:14:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 4:01:09 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
If it exists it has a purpose, universe exists therefore it has purpose, something with purpose was created with meaning, not by chance.

There are two problems with this argument. One, why are we assuming assuming that if something exists that is has a purpose? And two, why does something having a purpose require that it was created with meaning? Say a philosopher somehow determines that there is a purpose X for the universe. Why must an external entity create this purpose and not an internal entity (i.e. humans)?
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
9spaceking
Posts: 4,213
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 5:19:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
no no no, you need to show something exists to have meaning.
Equestrian election
http://www.debate.org...

This House would impose democracy
http://www.debate.org...

Reign of Terror is unjustified
http://www.debate.org...

Raise min. wage to $10.10
http://www.debate.org...
CountCheechula
Posts: 29
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 5:37:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Blood exists, if you cut yourself you bleed blood, blood is necessary for your survival, without blood you cannot life, giving life is the bloods purpose, blood exists in our universe.
Light exists, for us to see and use for energy and to give life, hence when people that have recently die paramedics will shock them with electricity a form of life. Light for food a warmth all purposes for light and light is in our visible spectrum, our sun a physical object of exploding bombs in space and fire a cooking agent.
Every man shall kneel and every tongue will confess.
Subutai
Posts: 3,216
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 5:43:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:37:30 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
Blood exists, if you cut yourself you bleed blood, blood is necessary for your survival, without blood you cannot life, giving life is the bloods purpose, blood exists in our universe.
Light exists, for us to see and use for energy and to give life, hence when people that have recently die paramedics will shock them with electricity a form of life. Light for food a warmth all purposes for light and light is in our visible spectrum, our sun a physical object of exploding bombs in space and fire a cooking agent.

You're assuming that these things exist for our own purposes. Blood exists, because it is necessary for our survival, but only because evolution made blood a desirable thing to have. It was not "created" with any purpose. Light is completely independent of human survival. Light would exist with or without humans. There's even less real "purpose" with light except with what we make of it.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
CountCheechula
Posts: 29
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 5:53:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So you assume that all things that have ever been and that are here and the things that will always be are here for no reason at all. Just because.
I mean no this makes sense to a five year old maybe.
C'mon seriously? You have nobody that witnessed this Big Bang, you just say yeah a massive explosion happened and yeah everything is here.
Science can tell us how things work and there purpose, not who created it.
The Bible can tell us how things work and there purpose and who created it.

The problem is this, There is just as much proof and logic to assume that God created the Universe according to Genesis as opposed to mainstream science Big Bang/Evolution.
I can and most would assume that either both could be true, I can see God creating the Big Bang and In 7 days. God made it and that's all we need to know.
Science get back in the zone and stop getting full of yourselves and man just this give to be typing right now and surviving and being part of the grand plan. How can you not appreciate life and say shucks all for not?
Every man shall kneel and every tongue will confess.
Subutai
Posts: 3,216
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 9:59:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:53:44 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
So you assume that all things that have ever been and that are here and the things that will always be are here for no reason at all. Just because.
I mean no this makes sense to a five year old maybe.
C'mon seriously? You have nobody that witnessed this Big Bang, you just say yeah a massive explosion happened and yeah everything is here.
Science can tell us how things work and there purpose, not who created it.
The Bible can tell us how things work and there purpose and who created it.

The problem is this, There is just as much proof and logic to assume that God created the Universe according to Genesis as opposed to mainstream science Big Bang/Evolution.
I can and most would assume that either both could be true, I can see God creating the Big Bang and In 7 days. God made it and that's all we need to know.
Science get back in the zone and stop getting full of yourselves and man just this give to be typing right now and surviving and being part of the grand plan. How can you not appreciate life and say shucks all for not?

Everything you wrote was pretty much one big red herring. You were considering whether or not the universe has meaning, and now you're saying that the universe was created by God. The only relevant sentence was the first one. Meaninglessness seems scary to people for some reason, but a naked truth is better than any comforting lie.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2014 2:26:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 9:59:37 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 10/27/2014 5:53:44 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
So you assume that all things that have ever been and that are here and the things that will always be are here for no reason at all. Just because.
I mean no this makes sense to a five year old maybe.
C'mon seriously? You have nobody that witnessed this Big Bang, you just say yeah a massive explosion happened and yeah everything is here.
Science can tell us how things work and there purpose, not who created it.
The Bible can tell us how things work and there purpose and who created it.

The problem is this, There is just as much proof and logic to assume that God created the Universe according to Genesis as opposed to mainstream science Big Bang/Evolution.
I can and most would assume that either both could be true, I can see God creating the Big Bang and In 7 days. God made it and that's all we need to know.
Science get back in the zone and stop getting full of yourselves and man just this give to be typing right now and surviving and being part of the grand plan. How can you not appreciate life and say shucks all for not?

Everything you wrote was pretty much one big red herring. You were considering whether or not the universe has meaning, and now you're saying that the universe was created by God. The only relevant sentence was the first one. Meaninglessness seems scary to people for some reason, but a naked truth is better than any comforting lie.

^This
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2014 3:26:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The "purpose" of the universe is self-optimization as defined by teleology. The need for self-actualization and self-expression follows from the fact that reality is self-contained and is thus solely responsible for determining its own configuration. The universe must provide itself with a reason to exist, otherwise its structure would be incomplete (causally open and thus undecidable) in which case it would simply decohere for lack of a guiding principle.
slo1
Posts: 4,349
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2014 7:22:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:37:30 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
Blood exists, if you cut yourself you bleed blood, blood is necessary for your survival, without blood you cannot life, giving life is the bloods purpose, blood exists in our universe.
Light exists, for us to see and use for energy and to give life, hence when people that have recently die paramedics will shock them with electricity a form of life. Light for food a warmth all purposes for light and light is in our visible spectrum, our sun a physical object of exploding bombs in space and fire a cooking agent.

You would have fit in well why back when everyone thought the sun, stars and universe all centered around us.

come on.....light exists so we can see? lol
MEK
Posts: 253
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2014 11:01:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The universe has meaning"".? That the universe, or anything, for that matter exists is irrelevant the question of meaning. "Does the universe have meaning?" is a malformed question. The application of meaning is a human invention to satisfy our primitive desires to have answers. We humans have the hardest time accepting that there are some things in this universe that simply do not have an answer " at least not yet. The only line of discourse that can hope to achieve insight into areas like what is beyond the red light shift or how a universe started from presumably nothing is continued scientific inquiry.
Besides offering infinite regression as an answer " religion has rarely offered any answers that have survived modernity.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2014 4:13:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/27/2014 5:37:30 PM, CountCheechula wrote:
Blood exists, if you cut yourself you bleed blood, blood is necessary for your survival, without blood you cannot life, giving life is the bloods purpose, blood exists in our universe.
Light exists, for us to see and use for energy and to give life, hence when people that have recently die paramedics will shock them with electricity a form of life. Light for food a warmth all purposes for light and light is in our visible spectrum, our sun a physical object of exploding bombs in space and fire a cooking agent.

In your scenario it sound more like you're actually given meaning to the blood - in that it serves your purpose in living. Without human to give this meaning to blood, blood in itself doesn't have any meaning just like the universe doesn't have any meaning but our meaning to facilitate our existence. Just because something exist doesn't mean it has meaning, it need something else to reflect on in order to mean something - in a sense everything has meaning because everything is related to something in some way, that doesn't prove that someone must be there to create it all up, if you throw any ramdom set of object together it will always has a meaning because it is related to the other objects in that set in some way.