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One electron hypothesis

n7
Posts: 1,355
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12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?
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Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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12/1/2014 12:15:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM, n7 wrote:
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?

I don't know too much about it. It was originally proposed to explain how all electrons have exactly the same charge and mass. You basically have just one electron moving backwards and forwards in time, the same electron being observed over and over.

The charge of an electron is just in accordance with it's direction of time travel. An electron moving 'forwards' in time would be an electron, and vice versa would be a positron.

I have no idea how this applies to quantum mechanics, I suppose it makes some sense if you model an eternal universe as one big system, and an electron would be a wave function which spreads throughout all of time.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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12/1/2014 12:18:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM, n7 wrote:
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?

It also predicts the existance of the same number of positrons to electrons... Which runs into empirical problems...since our universe hasn't annihilated itself yet. All these desymetrisation models are futile.
chui
Posts: 507
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12/2/2014 4:41:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 12:18:00 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM, n7 wrote:
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?

It also predicts the existance of the same number of positrons to electrons... Which runs into empirical problems...since our universe hasn't annihilated itself yet. All these desymetrisation models are futile.

Feynman raised this very issue with Wheeler and he suggested they are hiding in protons. This suggests to me that Wheeler was not particularly serious with the one electron suggestion which he proposed in a phone call to Feynman. However it did inspire Feynman to postulate that positrons are electrons moving backwards in time. this suggestion is taken seriously.
StandardDeviation
Posts: 1
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12/2/2014 8:00:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM, n7 wrote:
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?

Yo.
Dig"

electrons are not made of matter. So there is no such thing as an electron. The electrical field (some use the term; electron possibility cloud) is not understood because physicists are best at bearing the axe until the entire tree falls. The universe would be a boring place if matter didn"t inherently, around each atom, have a dimension (or secondary ether, like air on earth for sound"s evolutionary survival utility) for electricity to communicate and react. Energy is Matter, the speed of light is time itself. Electromagnetism is light. Light travels through a vacuum, would it really jump through an inconsistent, ephemeral, transient path of "points" where the ghost of an electron has the possibility of not being, and also being at.
Specialization in the sciences. Academia, and stratified delineator castes have made most of our scientists into hyper-focused surrealist convolution artists.
Reunite, my disciples. Free your mind from disciplines.
Elect Ron, for State Senator.
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n7
Posts: 1,355
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12/2/2014 2:05:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 8:00:09 AM, StandardDeviation wrote:
At 12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM, n7 wrote:
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?

Yo.
Dig"

electrons are not made of matter. So there is no such thing as an electron. The electrical field (some use the term; electron possibility cloud) is not understood because physicists are best at bearing the axe until the entire tree falls. The universe would be a boring place if matter didn"t inherently, around each atom, have a dimension (or secondary ether, like air on earth for sound"s evolutionary survival utility) for electricity to communicate and react. Energy is Matter, the speed of light is time itself. Electromagnetism is light. Light travels through a vacuum, would it really jump through an inconsistent, ephemeral, transient path of "points" where the ghost of an electron has the possibility of not being, and also being at.
Specialization in the sciences. Academia, and stratified delineator castes have made most of our scientists into hyper-focused surrealist convolution artists.
Reunite, my disciples. Free your mind from disciplines.
Elect Ron, for State Senator.

This answers my question how?
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
Subutai
Posts: 3,134
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12/3/2014 2:20:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 11:42:03 AM, n7 wrote:
I don't get the one electron hypothesis. Is Wheeler saying all of the electronics in the universe are token identical or type identical? If token identical how can it be it various places at once and act like distinct particles? Or is he saying its wave function is spread out?

The one-electron hypothesis was a way of condensing the wave functions of all the electrons in the universe into a single wave function. Each electron would be where a time "slice" was made through spacetime that intersected the single world line. To my knowledge, it's not taken very seriously by most physicists, but it did introduce the idea that antimatter goes backward in a spacetime. I think all the electrons would be type identical in that case.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.