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Homosexuality.

FREEDO
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5/28/2010 4:35:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There has to be a ton of threads on this already but all-well.

I'd like to see all evidence for or against homosexuality being biological or not put forth.
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fnord
FREEDO
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5/28/2010 4:44:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/28/2010 4:41:29 PM, Volkov wrote:
Question is, why are you so curious about it? Is there something bothering you Freedo?

Oh Volkov, stop projecting your inner confusion on the outside world.
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fnord
Volkov
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5/28/2010 4:52:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/28/2010 4:44:48 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Oh Volkov, stop projecting your inner confusion on the outside world.

Says the guy who keeps emulating known girly-girl women. xD

Anyways, this should cover some of it for you: http://www.debate.org...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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5/28/2010 4:55:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I presume Freedo's headed to Canada so Volkov can project his confusion into Freedo's innards.

(Couldn't resist).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
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5/28/2010 4:56:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/28/2010 4:55:44 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I presume Freedo's headed to Canada so Volkov can project his confusion into Freedo's innards.

(Couldn't resist).

I'd laugh if I thought that was funny. Big words killed it.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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5/28/2010 5:58:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
We've talked about this topic enough. Do your own research before coming out of the closet, Freedo ;)
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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5/29/2010 5:07:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/28/2010 5:58:20 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
We've talked about this topic enough. Do your own research before coming out of the closet, Freedo ;)

Given the recent propensity for female avatars, it may be a very gender confused closet. ;)
True2GaGa
Posts: 1,574
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5/29/2010 5:39:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/29/2010 5:07:19 AM, Puck wrote:
At 5/28/2010 5:58:20 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
We've talked about this topic enough. Do your own research before coming out of the closet, Freedo ;)

Given the recent propensity for female avatars, it may be a very gender confused closet. ;)

Maybe.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/29/2010 6:38:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. Here FREEDO is just asking for information and you turn it into some kind of personal joke. I'm disgusted in all of you.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Volkov
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5/29/2010 6:39:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/29/2010 6:38:21 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. Here FREEDO is just asking for information and you turn it into some kind of personal joke. I'm disgusted in all of you.

Looks like someone else is hiding something....
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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5/30/2010 6:44:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
There is no evidence for homosexuality being anything. It's like autism.

I say the most likely choice is that it's mainly socialization or partly nature like other diseases but needs a social stimulus (bipolar disorder).

I'm sick of people treating it as a special case, there's no strong evidence against it or for it, but when has there ever been? Why can't people just use common sense instead of being so accepting?(Racial Biology)
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Cerebral_Narcissist
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5/30/2010 10:22:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 6:44:59 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
There is no evidence for homosexuality being anything. It's like autism.

So not like autism at all then.


I say the most likely choice is that it's mainly socialization or partly nature like other diseases but needs a social stimulus (bipolar disorder).

Other diseases?


I'm sick of people treating it as a special case, there's no strong evidence against it or for it, but when has there ever been? Why can't people just use common sense instead of being so accepting?(Racial Biology)

It has been found throughout the animal kingdom and human history, it causes no debilitation. Common sense suggests it is something that should be accepted. You have yet to vocalise your issues against it in any sensible way, your problems are most like internal and should be fixed by the first year of university.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/30/2010 10:28:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/29/2010 6:38:21 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. Here FREEDO is just asking for information and you turn it into some kind of personal joke. I'm disgusted in all of you.

Wow. You're the only one who really is hiding his own homosexuality.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/30/2010 10:29:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 6:44:59 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
There is no evidence for homosexuality being anything. It's like autism.

I say the most likely choice is that it's mainly socialization or partly nature like other diseases but needs a social stimulus (bipolar disorder).

I'm sick of people treating it as a special case, there's no strong evidence against it or for it, but when has there ever been? Why can't people just use common sense instead of being so accepting?(Racial Biology)

I'm pretty sure the medical community doesn't classify homosexuality as a disease.
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/30/2010 10:40:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 10:29:40 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 5/30/2010 6:44:59 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
There is no evidence for homosexuality being anything. It's like autism.

I say the most likely choice is that it's mainly socialization or partly nature like other diseases but needs a social stimulus (bipolar disorder).

I'm sick of people treating it as a special case, there's no strong evidence against it or for it, but when has there ever been? Why can't people just use common sense instead of being so accepting?(Racial Biology)

I'm pretty sure the medical community doesn't classify homosexuality as a disease.

Psychologists did until fairly recently however.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
innomen
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5/30/2010 10:55:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The topic is less interesting to me than the motivations behind it. I am never surprised when this comes to me from a fundamentalist (I should share some of the PM's i have received), but am a bit more puzzled when it comes from someone with a supposedly more open mind about homosexuality.

So, if it is genetic, or biological the thinking is, it is less o a choice to the individual (not sure why that assumption is there). If it is not a choice it cannot be a sin, since God made me this way ;-). If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.) Now if you are not inclined to adhere to the dogmatic rants of religion in this area, why would you care? Furthermore, if it can be determined one way or the other, what would it really change (unless you think there is some chance that i can go straight, and you have some odd desire to make that happen)?
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/30/2010 11:00:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 6:44:59 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
There is no evidence for homosexuality being anything. It's like autism.

Being anything? What does that mean?

I say the most likely choice is that it's mainly socialization or partly nature like other diseases but needs a social stimulus (bipolar disorder).

Haha socialization. You realize that's completely contrary, right? Socialization tells people to be STRAIGHT - not gay. People commit suicide over shame for being gay.

I'm sick of people treating it as a special case, there's no strong evidence against it or for it, but when has there ever been? Why can't people just use common sense instead of being so accepting?(Racial Biology)

... Says the person who lacks the most common sense. And what do you mean you're sick of people treating it as a special case? What special case? Just be quiet. Don't you have a corner you can be playing in or something?
President of DDO
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/30/2010 11:02:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 10:55:32 AM, innomen wrote:
The topic is less interesting to me than the motivations behind it. I am never surprised when this comes to me from a fundamentalist (I should share some of the PM's i have received), but am a bit more puzzled when it comes from someone with a supposedly more open mind about homosexuality.

So, if it is genetic, or biological the thinking is, it is less o a choice to the individual (not sure why that assumption is there).

If it's biological then of course it's not a choice to be homosexual, only to act on it.

If it is not a choice it cannot be a sin, since God made me this way ;-).

That is flawed as well. We have a natural propensity for a number of things that God deems as a sin.

If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?

Now if you are not inclined to adhere to the dogmatic rants of religion in this area, why would you care? Furthermore, if it can be determined one way or the other, what would it really change (unless you think there is some chance that i can go straight, and you have some odd desire to make that happen)?

Well its more interesting than anything else.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
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5/30/2010 11:05:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:02:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 5/30/2010 10:55:32 AM, innomen wrote:
The topic is less interesting to me than the motivations behind it. I am never surprised when this comes to me from a fundamentalist (I should share some of the PM's i have received), but am a bit more puzzled when it comes from someone with a supposedly more open mind about homosexuality.

So, if it is genetic, or biological the thinking is, it is less o a choice to the individual (not sure why that assumption is there).

If it's biological then of course it's not a choice to be homosexual, only to act on it.

If it is not a choice it cannot be a sin, since God made me this way ;-).

That is flawed as well. We have a natural propensity for a number of things that God deems as a sin.
God or men?

If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?
Well that's pretty much my point as well.

Now if you are not inclined to adhere to the dogmatic rants of religion in this area, why would you care? Furthermore, if it can be determined one way or the other, what would it really change (unless you think there is some chance that i can go straight, and you have some odd desire to make that happen)?

Well its more interesting than anything else.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/30/2010 11:06:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:05:03 AM, innomen wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:02:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 5/30/2010 10:55:32 AM, innomen wrote:
The topic is less interesting to me than the motivations behind it. I am never surprised when this comes to me from a fundamentalist (I should share some of the PM's i have received), but am a bit more puzzled when it comes from someone with a supposedly more open mind about homosexuality.

So, if it is genetic, or biological the thinking is, it is less o a choice to the individual (not sure why that assumption is there).

If it's biological then of course it's not a choice to be homosexual, only to act on it.

If it is not a choice it cannot be a sin, since God made me this way ;-).

That is flawed as well. We have a natural propensity for a number of things that God deems as a sin.
God or men?


?

If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?
Well that's pretty much my point as well.

No I am questioning your point, it makes no sense.


Now if you are not inclined to adhere to the dogmatic rants of religion in this area, why would you care? Furthermore, if it can be determined one way or the other, what would it really change (unless you think there is some chance that i can go straight, and you have some odd desire to make that happen)?

Well its more interesting than anything else.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
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5/30/2010 11:16:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:06:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:


If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?
Well that's pretty much my point as well.

No I am questioning your point, it makes no sense.


Not my point, but those that believe it is a choice believe that there was a point in time when something may have influenced someone's original desire for heterosexuality, an over bearing mother is a common example. If environmental factors can make you gay or create the choice to leave your original desire, then environmental factors can also return you to your original desire.
Kinesis
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5/30/2010 11:22:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 10:40:23 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 5/30/2010 10:29:40 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 5/30/2010 6:44:59 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
There is no evidence for homosexuality being anything. It's like autism.

I say the most likely choice is that it's mainly socialization or partly nature like other diseases but needs a social stimulus (bipolar disorder).

I'm sick of people treating it as a special case, there's no strong evidence against it or for it, but when has there ever been? Why can't people just use common sense instead of being so accepting?(Racial Biology)

I'm pretty sure the medical community doesn't classify homosexuality as a disease.

Psychologists did until fairly recently however.

30 years isn't particularly recent.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/30/2010 11:22:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:16:12 AM, innomen wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:06:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:


If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?
Well that's pretty much my point as well.

No I am questioning your point, it makes no sense.


Not my point, but those that believe it is a choice believe that there was a point in time when something may have influenced someone's original desire for heterosexuality, an over bearing mother is a common example. If environmental factors can make you gay or create the choice to leave your original desire, then environmental factors can also return you to your original desire.

If enviromental factors can cause you to be gay, it does not follow that there is any choice in the matter. Or either that the process can be reversed.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/30/2010 11:39:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:22:26 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:16:12 AM, innomen wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:06:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:


If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?
Well that's pretty much my point as well.

No I am questioning your point, it makes no sense.


Not my point, but those that believe it is a choice believe that there was a point in time when something may have influenced someone's original desire for heterosexuality, an over bearing mother is a common example. If environmental factors can make you gay or create the choice to leave your original desire, then environmental factors can also return you to your original desire.

If enviromental factors can cause you to be gay, it does not follow that there is any choice in the matter. Or either that the process can be reversed.

So do me a favor and play devil's advocate and explain to me how it would come to be a choice.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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5/30/2010 11:46:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:39:30 AM, innomen wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:22:26 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:16:12 AM, innomen wrote:
At 5/30/2010 11:06:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:


If it is the result of my environment then it was a choice that i made, and not only is it not in God's plan, but it is a sin that i can change back in making that choice. (It kills me that people believe this stuff.)

How does it follow that if its a result of your enviromnent it is also a choice?
Well that's pretty much my point as well.

No I am questioning your point, it makes no sense.


Not my point, but those that believe it is a choice believe that there was a point in time when something may have influenced someone's original desire for heterosexuality, an over bearing mother is a common example. If environmental factors can make you gay or create the choice to leave your original desire, then environmental factors can also return you to your original desire.

If enviromental factors can cause you to be gay, it does not follow that there is any choice in the matter. Or either that the process can be reversed.

So do me a favor and play devil's advocate and explain to me how it would come to be a choice.

I am not even sure I can, the only way I could see it as being a choice is by repression... which is not a choice as such, or bisexuals who choose to favour one gender over another. Beyond that I can not even comprehend how to start.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
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5/30/2010 11:51:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/30/2010 11:46:03 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

So do me a favor and play devil's advocate and explain to me how it would come to be a choice.

I am not even sure I can, the only way I could see it as being a choice is by repression... which is not a choice as such, or bisexuals who choose to favour one gender over another. Beyond that I can not even comprehend how to start.

Welcome to my world, i am presented with the whole "choice" thing routinely.
omelet
Posts: 416
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5/30/2010 2:10:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Why exactly does it matter whether it's biological?

But to actually answer the question, there are genes which predispose individuals toward homosexuality, but environmental factors also play a large role.

I am genuinely interested in why you might be interested in this. Whether it's nature or nurture does not change how we should treat homosexuals. Are you under the impression that homosexuality is a societal problem?