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What's Intelligent Design good for?

Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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12/25/2014 9:08:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Intelligent Design (Which is a terrible name since you need to use "intelligent design" as much as you need to use "solid ice") is more of a historical hypothesis than a scientific method. The same questions can be pointed at any historical claim or discovery.

Rather than technological application, I guess they may help us answer some philosophical questions and learn more about the universe in general.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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12/25/2014 5:58:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

For scientific purposes no, it serves for absolutely nothing. But it can still be useful to understand early christians' culture, like greek myths also help us understand better the greek culture.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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12/25/2014 7:53:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

No point.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/25/2014 8:13:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 9:08:51 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Intelligent Design (Which is a terrible name since you need to use "intelligent design" as much as you need to use "solid ice") is more of a historical hypothesis than a scientific method. The same questions can be pointed at any historical claim or discovery.

Rather than technological application, I guess they may help us answer some philosophical questions and learn more about the universe in general.

Answer some philosophical questions? Can you expand on this a bit, what do you have in mind?
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.

From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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12/26/2014 3:33:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

How would you teach it?

You wouldn't. You'd cram it down the students throats until they choked on it.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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12/26/2014 8:24:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Absolutely, if you're talking myth and superstition, gods are the best answer.

Aliens, on the other hand, present a problem. If aliens created us, who created them? Gods? Back to square one.

Universal consciousness? Yeah, whatever.

Personally, I prefer to look at trying to find answers to a question of nature and the world around us, our universe, with answers that involve nature and the world around us rather than turning to myths and superstitions or some other invisible sky friend consciousness thingy. Learning about real things is so much more interesting than whatever ancient myths can offer.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Posts: 2,744
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12/26/2014 8:45:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

What's death good for? Can it be used for anyting useful?
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/26/2014 8:48:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:45:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

What's death good for? Can it be used for anyting useful?

Yes. Osama Bin Laden, Putin, Kim Jong Un and so on. Population control. Food.
All these things require death. So death can be a useful thing.
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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12/26/2014 8:49:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:45:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

What's death good for? Can it be used for anyting useful?

Yea, resurrection.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/27/2014 12:05:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 8:45:23 PM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 12/25/2014 4:29:55 AM, Accipiter wrote:
I am wondering what can be done with ID? Can studying it help us stop disease or develop new vaccines? Will we gain any useful information about the universe from it? How would you teach it? I can't imagine it taking someone more than 15 min to learn it. No matter how I turn it ID just can't be used for anything useful.

What's death good for? Can it be used for anyting useful?

Yes death good for many things and yes it's very useful and yes you are weird.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/28/2014 2:17:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.

Life could have come from an asteroid or comet. A large body colliding with a planet that has life on it will blow organic stuff trapped in rock out in to space. Or perhaps your aliens put some DNA or whatever into little rockets and sent them to Earth.

On Mars they found water, organic molecules and methane, if they could have drilled down a hundred feet they would have found bacteria. This is leading scientists to believe that the universe probably has more life in it then they estimated.

In all the most obvious mistakes of religion the pious always placed man at the center of everything, they think we are somehow remarkable.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/28/2014 12:41:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 2:17:58 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.

Life could have come from an asteroid or comet. A large body colliding with a planet that has life on it will blow organic stuff trapped in rock out in to space. Or perhaps your aliens put some DNA or whatever into little rockets and sent them to Earth.


But that excludes ID. We are talking about the point of ID in relation to biology, not abiogenesis. Where did the life on the asteroids come from. If it came from the aliens, where did the aliens come from.

On Mars they found water, organic molecules and methane, if they could have drilled down a hundred feet they would have found bacteria. This is leading scientists to believe that the universe probably has more life in it then they estimated.

In all the most obvious mistakes of religion the pious always placed man at the center of everything, they think we are somehow remarkable.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are unique. We are the only know sentient species in the universe. That does makes us unique.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/28/2014 4:05:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 12:41:04 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/28/2014 2:17:58 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.

Life could have come from an asteroid or comet. A large body colliding with a planet that has life on it will blow organic stuff trapped in rock out in to space. Or perhaps your aliens put some DNA or whatever into little rockets and sent them to Earth.


But that excludes ID. We are talking about the point of ID in relation to biology, not abiogenesis. Where did the life on the asteroids come from. If it came from the aliens, where did the aliens come from.

On Mars they found water, organic molecules and methane, if they could have drilled down a hundred feet they would have found bacteria. This is leading scientists to believe that the universe probably has more life in it then they estimated.

In all the most obvious mistakes of religion the pious always placed man at the center of everything, they think we are somehow remarkable.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are unique. We are the only know sentient species in the universe. That does makes us unique.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are ignorant not unique. Thinking that we are unique is rather egocentric don't you think?
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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12/29/2014 1:05:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/28/2014 4:05:37 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/28/2014 12:41:04 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/28/2014 2:17:58 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.

Life could have come from an asteroid or comet. A large body colliding with a planet that has life on it will blow organic stuff trapped in rock out in to space. Or perhaps your aliens put some DNA or whatever into little rockets and sent them to Earth.


But that excludes ID. We are talking about the point of ID in relation to biology, not abiogenesis. Where did the life on the asteroids come from. If it came from the aliens, where did the aliens come from.

On Mars they found water, organic molecules and methane, if they could have drilled down a hundred feet they would have found bacteria. This is leading scientists to believe that the universe probably has more life in it then they estimated.

In all the most obvious mistakes of religion the pious always placed man at the center of everything, they think we are somehow remarkable.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are unique. We are the only know sentient species in the universe. That does makes us unique.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are ignorant not unique. Thinking that we are unique is rather egocentric don't you think?

Not really. I don't see how thinking your unique is egocentric. If we found life and then still thought we were unique, then that would be egocentric. But thinking that we are unique because we have no actual evidence to suggest that we are not alone, is not egocentric.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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12/29/2014 6:51:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 1:05:46 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/28/2014 4:05:37 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/28/2014 12:41:04 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/28/2014 2:17:58 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.

Life could have come from an asteroid or comet. A large body colliding with a planet that has life on it will blow organic stuff trapped in rock out in to space. Or perhaps your aliens put some DNA or whatever into little rockets and sent them to Earth.


But that excludes ID. We are talking about the point of ID in relation to biology, not abiogenesis. Where did the life on the asteroids come from. If it came from the aliens, where did the aliens come from.

On Mars they found water, organic molecules and methane, if they could have drilled down a hundred feet they would have found bacteria. This is leading scientists to believe that the universe probably has more life in it then they estimated.

In all the most obvious mistakes of religion the pious always placed man at the center of everything, they think we are somehow remarkable.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are unique. We are the only know sentient species in the universe. That does makes us unique.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are ignorant not unique. Thinking that we are unique is rather egocentric don't you think?

Not really. I don't see how thinking your unique is egocentric. If we found life and then still thought we were unique, then that would be egocentric. But thinking that we are unique because we have no actual evidence to suggest that we are not alone, is not egocentric.

That's a rather daring assertion when the only planet you know, has life. It's not like you have explored a lot of planets to conclude life is an unlikely event...
Rubikx
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12/29/2014 9:25:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/29/2014 6:51:18 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/29/2014 1:05:46 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/28/2014 4:05:37 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/28/2014 12:41:04 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/28/2014 2:17:58 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/27/2014 11:05:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/27/2014 12:43:08 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 7:27:08 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 6:51:06 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:42:14 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 5:24:02 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 3:41:38 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:35:36 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 2:10:40 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/26/2014 1:56:56 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/26/2014 12:02:09 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 12/25/2014 8:39:13 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 12/25/2014 11:54:47 AM, Rubikx wrote:
Ultimately you could argue there is no point. That being said religious beliefs can provide people with motivation and allow them to help others or just provide them with a sense of self worth.
Obviously this is the opinion from a human perspective and if we say ID is correct then we can't possibly know why god would have done it apart from simply guessing.

ID in it's present form suggests we have been created but I don't see that it proves that the god of the bible or any other god did it.

being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence. Especially looking at how complex the world/universe is. So really the only options are God(s), aliens or the universal consciousness brought us into existence. As a whole it seems more likely that a God or many Gods of any religion (or even one we haven't heard of yet) created the universe.

Being created by ID requires a massive level of intelligence?

That's not true we are already able to manipulate DNA to create forms of life never before seen on this planet. Right now we are on the verge of being able to create custom designed people from scratch and based on what I have seen people in general do not have massive levels of intelligence.

The people who are manipulating DNA are very smart people. They're not exactly Forest Gump if you know what I mean. Very few people off the street just can go and manipulate DNA to create custom life forms. But creating an entire universe would take a lot more. We still don't entirely understand how atoms work or how our universe formed. There are tons of things that we have no idea how it works. No human is smart enough or capable of creating/designing an entire universe. That level of intelligence and power is beyond humans and requires ID.


From what I have seen in ID literature it all talks about ID creating people not the universe. ID is all about biology not cosmology.

I suppose it depends on what we're talking about. Based off of the original question "What's intelligent design good for?", I assumed we where talking about God. or in other words I assumed we where talking about the creation/existence of the entire universe. But I guess ID can be applied to a lot of things. A painting requires ID, so do cars and clothes and so on and not just biology.

I have never seen anything about ID that attacks anything but evolution so I think the discussion should remain within the confines of biology.

Very well. But biology still requires ID. I mean abiogenisis doesn't seem to me like a logical conclusion for the beginning of life. So really the only solution is ID when it comes to biology.

So you are saying God did it with ID? How do you know that it was God that used ID to create people and not somebody else?

Well, as I said earlier (if we assume we were created by ID) the only options would be God(s), aliens or some sort of Universal consciousness. Unless you can think of any others. Given these options God(s) seem the most likely choice.

Why do God(s) seem the most likely choice?

Unless you can think of any other options from the ones i gave earlier. The idea that aliens would just fly to earth, create life and then just leave, doesn't seem like a practical idea. Likewise, the idea that some sort of New Age universal consciousness brought us into existence doesn't seem likely either. Personally if we are assuming we where created by ID I don't see any other logical conclusions.

Life could have come from an asteroid or comet. A large body colliding with a planet that has life on it will blow organic stuff trapped in rock out in to space. Or perhaps your aliens put some DNA or whatever into little rockets and sent them to Earth.


But that excludes ID. We are talking about the point of ID in relation to biology, not abiogenesis. Where did the life on the asteroids come from. If it came from the aliens, where did the aliens come from.

On Mars they found water, organic molecules and methane, if they could have drilled down a hundred feet they would have found bacteria. This is leading scientists to believe that the universe probably has more life in it then they estimated.

In all the most obvious mistakes of religion the pious always placed man at the center of everything, they think we are somehow remarkable.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are unique. We are the only know sentient species in the universe. That does makes us unique.

Until we do discover actual life somewhere else in the universe we are ignorant not unique. Thinking that we are unique is rather egocentric don't you think?

Not really. I don't see how thinking your unique is egocentric. If we found life and then still thought we were unique, then that would be egocentric. But thinking that we are unique because we have no actual evidence to suggest that we are not alone, is not egocentric.

That's a rather daring assertion when the only planet you know, has life. It's not like you have explored a lot of planets to conclude life is an unlikely event...

Its true, the amount of evidence we have about life on other planets is very limited. However, we still have no evidence (apart from mathematical probability) to conclusively say that there is other life in the universe. So, based off the evidence we have so far gathered we must conclude that we are the only life in the universe. Thats not to say we won't find more life in the universe, but based off of the facts as of now we are the only know life in the universe. There is a good chance that there is other life, but we haven't yet found it and so we can't conclusively say that it exists.