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Gradualism or Punctuated Equilibrium

HououinKyouma
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12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
slo1
Posts: 4,353
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12/30/2014 11:01:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

probably a bit of both. Evolution is so complex and dependent upon so many factors that it is very chaotic in its nature. Both can describe conditions that were probably present and accurate for certain times for certain populations of organisms.

When one identifies many of the possible drivers of evolution, quite honestly chaos theory is probably a better method of joining them rather than one of the evolutionary models.
HououinKyouma
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12/30/2014 5:48:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/30/2014 11:01:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

probably a bit of both. Evolution is so complex and dependent upon so many factors that it is very chaotic in its nature. Both can describe conditions that were probably present and accurate for certain times for certain populations of organisms.

When one identifies many of the possible drivers of evolution, quite honestly chaos theory is probably a better method of joining them rather than one of the evolutionary models.

I had never actually thought of thinking about evolution along the lines of chaos theory, so thanks!
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
Otokage
Posts: 2,351
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1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.
HououinKyouma
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1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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1/6/2015 3:04:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.

I'd be surprised to hear someone who advocates punctuated equilibrium above all else.

I'd have to agree with slo1 and ask why not both?

For example, modern humans, in many ways, are experiencing stasis because we have mitigated the effects of many evolutionary forces on most of the population (in developed countries anyway). However, we presumably have not stopped developing mutations. If, for some reason, our society were to collapse and we were all on our own and more subject to evolutionary forces (i.e. sans vaccinations, water treatment, widespread healthcare/medications, etc.), how would those mutations affect our rates of survival as various groups (with/without X, Y, or Z mutation)? I can imagine a scenario in which we have gained many mutations and a sudden shift in environment causes formerly neutral mutations and variations to become immediately imperative and change the face of the species.

I'm also thinking of that classic case of the peppered moth in the industrial revolution.

Phyletic gradualism seems most apt in (geological time) retrospect I suppose. But the change in species is only as gradual as the change in the environment. Sometimes there are spontaneous algae blooms. Sometimes there is a natural disaster. Sometimes a plague rolls through.

Should we characterize these extreme, quick changes in terms of branching in phyletic gradualism or as the break in stasis of punctuated equilibrium?

*shrug*
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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1/6/2015 7:42:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 3:04:22 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.

I'd be surprised to hear someone who advocates punctuated equilibrium above all else.

Wasn't Stephen Jay Gould one such extreme advocate of PE?

I'd have to agree with slo1 and ask why not both?

For example, modern humans, in many ways, are experiencing stasis because we have mitigated the effects of many evolutionary forces on most of the population (in developed countries anyway). However, we presumably have not stopped developing mutations. If, for some reason, our society were to collapse and we were all on our own and more subject to evolutionary forces (i.e. sans vaccinations, water treatment, widespread healthcare/medications, etc.), how would those mutations affect our rates of survival as various groups (with/without X, Y, or Z mutation)? I can imagine a scenario in which we have gained many mutations and a sudden shift in environment causes formerly neutral mutations and variations to become immediately imperative and change the face of the species.

I'm also thinking of that classic case of the peppered moth in the industrial revolution.

Phyletic gradualism seems most apt in (geological time) retrospect I suppose. But the change in species is only as gradual as the change in the environment. Sometimes there are spontaneous algae blooms. Sometimes there is a natural disaster. Sometimes a plague rolls through.

Doesn't Punctuated Equilibrium appear more apt in the fossil record, though? After all, the fossil record does seem to show that species exist in a period of stasis and then suddenly branch out into new species.

Should we characterize these extreme, quick changes in terms of branching in phyletic gradualism or as the break in stasis of punctuated equilibrium?

*shrug*
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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1/6/2015 11:39:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 7:42:32 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:04:22 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.

I'd be surprised to hear someone who advocates punctuated equilibrium above all else.

Wasn't Stephen Jay Gould one such extreme advocate of PE?

I don't know- but I was referring to people on this site.
I'd have to agree with slo1 and ask why not both?

For example, modern humans, in many ways, are experiencing stasis because we have mitigated the effects of many evolutionary forces on most of the population (in developed countries anyway). However, we presumably have not stopped developing mutations. If, for some reason, our society were to collapse and we were all on our own and more subject to evolutionary forces (i.e. sans vaccinations, water treatment, widespread healthcare/medications, etc.), how would those mutations affect our rates of survival as various groups (with/without X, Y, or Z mutation)? I can imagine a scenario in which we have gained many mutations and a sudden shift in environment causes formerly neutral mutations and variations to become immediately imperative and change the face of the species.

I'm also thinking of that classic case of the peppered moth in the industrial revolution.

Phyletic gradualism seems most apt in (geological time) retrospect I suppose. But the change in species is only as gradual as the change in the environment. Sometimes there are spontaneous algae blooms. Sometimes there is a natural disaster. Sometimes a plague rolls through.

Doesn't Punctuated Equilibrium appear more apt in the fossil record, though? After all, the fossil record does seem to show that species exist in a period of stasis and then suddenly branch out into new species.

Does it? That's not the impression I've gotten. Can you give an example?
Should we characterize these extreme, quick changes in terms of branching in phyletic gradualism or as the break in stasis of punctuated equilibrium?

*shrug*
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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1/7/2015 12:56:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/6/2015 11:39:35 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:42:32 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:04:22 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.

I'd be surprised to hear someone who advocates punctuated equilibrium above all else.

Wasn't Stephen Jay Gould one such extreme advocate of PE?

I don't know- but I was referring to people on this site.
I'd have to agree with slo1 and ask why not both?

For example, modern humans, in many ways, are experiencing stasis because we have mitigated the effects of many evolutionary forces on most of the population (in developed countries anyway). However, we presumably have not stopped developing mutations. If, for some reason, our society were to collapse and we were all on our own and more subject to evolutionary forces (i.e. sans vaccinations, water treatment, widespread healthcare/medications, etc.), how would those mutations affect our rates of survival as various groups (with/without X, Y, or Z mutation)? I can imagine a scenario in which we have gained many mutations and a sudden shift in environment causes formerly neutral mutations and variations to become immediately imperative and change the face of the species.

I'm also thinking of that classic case of the peppered moth in the industrial revolution.

Phyletic gradualism seems most apt in (geological time) retrospect I suppose. But the change in species is only as gradual as the change in the environment. Sometimes there are spontaneous algae blooms. Sometimes there is a natural disaster. Sometimes a plague rolls through.

Doesn't Punctuated Equilibrium appear more apt in the fossil record, though? After all, the fossil record does seem to show that species exist in a period of stasis and then suddenly branch out into new species.

Does it? That's not the impression I've gotten. Can you give an example?

Well, the fossil record of the evolution of humans does seem to lend support to Punctuated Equilibrium. For instance, there is a gap of about a million years between the appearance of H. Habilis and H. Erectus--according, of course, to our rather broken fossil record.

Should we characterize these extreme, quick changes in terms of branching in phyletic gradualism or as the break in stasis of punctuated equilibrium?

*shrug*
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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1/12/2015 1:09:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/7/2015 12:56:38 AM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:39:35 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:42:32 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:04:22 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.

I'd be surprised to hear someone who advocates punctuated equilibrium above all else.

Wasn't Stephen Jay Gould one such extreme advocate of PE?

I don't know- but I was referring to people on this site.
I'd have to agree with slo1 and ask why not both?

For example, modern humans, in many ways, are experiencing stasis because we have mitigated the effects of many evolutionary forces on most of the population (in developed countries anyway). However, we presumably have not stopped developing mutations. If, for some reason, our society were to collapse and we were all on our own and more subject to evolutionary forces (i.e. sans vaccinations, water treatment, widespread healthcare/medications, etc.), how would those mutations affect our rates of survival as various groups (with/without X, Y, or Z mutation)? I can imagine a scenario in which we have gained many mutations and a sudden shift in environment causes formerly neutral mutations and variations to become immediately imperative and change the face of the species.

I'm also thinking of that classic case of the peppered moth in the industrial revolution.

Phyletic gradualism seems most apt in (geological time) retrospect I suppose. But the change in species is only as gradual as the change in the environment. Sometimes there are spontaneous algae blooms. Sometimes there is a natural disaster. Sometimes a plague rolls through.

Doesn't Punctuated Equilibrium appear more apt in the fossil record, though? After all, the fossil record does seem to show that species exist in a period of stasis and then suddenly branch out into new species.

Does it? That's not the impression I've gotten. Can you give an example?

Well, the fossil record of the evolution of humans does seem to lend support to Punctuated Equilibrium. For instance, there is a gap of about a million years between the appearance of H. Habilis and H. Erectus--according, of course, to our rather broken fossil record.

Should we characterize these extreme, quick changes in terms of branching in phyletic gradualism or as the break in stasis of punctuated equilibrium?

*shrug*

Hmmm... I don't really understand what you're getting at.

H. habilis isn't necessarily ancestral to H. erectus. It's true, there are many gaps in the broken fossil record of ancestral humans, but I don't see how these two in particular (or large gaps at all) make a case for punctuated equilibrium.

I would think that small gaps in the fossil record between two more dissimilar specimens would make a case for punctuated equilibrium... But then again, if we found that, we'd most likely just assume they are not ancestral to each other or they are varied specimens in the same species or perhaps different sexes haha

...and this is why I decided not to do this my whole life. :D
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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1/12/2015 4:47:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 1:09:01 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/7/2015 12:56:38 AM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/6/2015 11:39:35 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/6/2015 7:42:32 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/6/2015 3:04:22 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:18:11 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/1/2015 5:13:12 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

Phyletic gradualism, since punctuated equilibrium has some eccentricities that don't appear to be possible (gathering DNA mutations without suffering the consequent morphological changes, and then expressing them all at once). Although we know today that phyletic gradualism can be faster than the creators of that term thought.

Good reply. Now we need a proponent of Punctuated Equilibria to come in and see if we can get a discussion going.

I'd be surprised to hear someone who advocates punctuated equilibrium above all else.

Wasn't Stephen Jay Gould one such extreme advocate of PE?

I don't know- but I was referring to people on this site.
I'd have to agree with slo1 and ask why not both?

For example, modern humans, in many ways, are experiencing stasis because we have mitigated the effects of many evolutionary forces on most of the population (in developed countries anyway). However, we presumably have not stopped developing mutations. If, for some reason, our society were to collapse and we were all on our own and more subject to evolutionary forces (i.e. sans vaccinations, water treatment, widespread healthcare/medications, etc.), how would those mutations affect our rates of survival as various groups (with/without X, Y, or Z mutation)? I can imagine a scenario in which we have gained many mutations and a sudden shift in environment causes formerly neutral mutations and variations to become immediately imperative and change the face of the species.

I'm also thinking of that classic case of the peppered moth in the industrial revolution.

Phyletic gradualism seems most apt in (geological time) retrospect I suppose. But the change in species is only as gradual as the change in the environment. Sometimes there are spontaneous algae blooms. Sometimes there is a natural disaster. Sometimes a plague rolls through.

Doesn't Punctuated Equilibrium appear more apt in the fossil record, though? After all, the fossil record does seem to show that species exist in a period of stasis and then suddenly branch out into new species.

Does it? That's not the impression I've gotten. Can you give an example?

Well, the fossil record of the evolution of humans does seem to lend support to Punctuated Equilibrium. For instance, there is a gap of about a million years between the appearance of H. Habilis and H. Erectus--according, of course, to our rather broken fossil record.

Should we characterize these extreme, quick changes in terms of branching in phyletic gradualism or as the break in stasis of punctuated equilibrium?

*shrug*

Hmmm... I don't really understand what you're getting at.

H. habilis isn't necessarily ancestral to H. erectus. It's true, there are many gaps in the broken fossil record of ancestral humans, but I don't see how these two in particular (or large gaps at all) make a case for punctuated equilibrium.

I would think that small gaps in the fossil record between two more dissimilar specimens would make a case for punctuated equilibrium... But then again, if we found that, we'd most likely just assume they are not ancestral to each other or they are varied specimens in the same species or perhaps different sexes haha

...and this is why I decided not to do this my whole life. :D

I am inclined to agree with you. I also find the arguments in favor of Punctuated Equilibrium to be rather forced.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
gingerbread-man
Posts: 301
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1/12/2015 5:06:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

This is why I love evolution....its like the Borg of scientific theories....it so awesomely constructed is can just swallow everything up.

Evolution is slow, except when it is fast
Similarities are evidence of evolution, Differences are evidence of evolution

Its more flexible than a Romanian gymnast
Not my gumdrop buttons!

Debates currently in voting period:

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SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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1/12/2015 5:16:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

In my opinion, both of them are good explanations for the diversity of life. http://necsi.edu...

http://evolution.berkeley.edu...
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
Life asked Death "Why do people love me but hate you?"
Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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1/12/2015 7:47:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 5:06:32 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

This is why I love evolution....its like the Borg of scientific theories....it so awesomely constructed is can just swallow everything up.

Evolution is slow, except when it is fast
Similarities are evidence of evolution, Differences are evidence of evolution

Its more flexible than a Romanian gymnast

Thank you for showing how you completely misunderstand the theory of evolution and the topic at hand.

You are welcome.

Sincerely Yours,

Hououin "mad scientist" Kyouma.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
HououinKyouma
Posts: 1,030
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1/12/2015 7:49:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 5:16:46 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

In my opinion, both of them are good explanations for the diversity of life. http://necsi.edu...

http://evolution.berkeley.edu...

Thanks, I will check those links.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
gingerbread-man
Posts: 301
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1/12/2015 8:44:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 7:47:22 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:06:32 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

This is why I love evolution....its like the Borg of scientific theories....it so awesomely constructed is can just swallow everything up.

Evolution is slow, except when it is fast
Similarities are evidence of evolution, Differences are evidence of evolution

Its more flexible than a Romanian gymnast

Thank you for showing how you completely misunderstand the theory of evolution and the topic at hand.

You are welcome.

Sincerely Yours,

Hououin "mad scientist" Kyouma.

I'm more of a punctuated equilibrium kind of guy, it seems to fit the fossil record a little better and changes in species populations, when they do happen, seem to happen pretty quickly as new predetors or other environmental forces turn up on the scene.
Not my gumdrop buttons!

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HououinKyouma
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1/13/2015 4:14:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/12/2015 8:44:08 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 1/12/2015 7:47:22 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:06:32 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

This is why I love evolution....its like the Borg of scientific theories....it so awesomely constructed is can just swallow everything up.

Evolution is slow, except when it is fast
Similarities are evidence of evolution, Differences are evidence of evolution

Its more flexible than a Romanian gymnast

Thank you for showing how you completely misunderstand the theory of evolution and the topic at hand.

You are welcome.

Sincerely Yours,

Hououin "mad scientist" Kyouma.

I'm more of a punctuated equilibrium kind of guy, it seems to fit the fossil record a little better and changes in species populations, when they do happen, seem to happen pretty quickly as new predetors or other environmental forces turn up on the scene.

Are you being serious or are you trolling? If you were trolling in your last post, or I misunderstood the meaning of it, then I will apologize, but if you're just trolling then I won't.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.
gingerbread-man
Posts: 301
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1/13/2015 4:39:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 4:14:07 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/12/2015 8:44:08 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 1/12/2015 7:47:22 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:06:32 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

This is why I love evolution....its like the Borg of scientific theories....it so awesomely constructed is can just swallow everything up.

Evolution is slow, except when it is fast
Similarities are evidence of evolution, Differences are evidence of evolution

Its more flexible than a Romanian gymnast

Thank you for showing how you completely misunderstand the theory of evolution and the topic at hand.

You are welcome.

Sincerely Yours,

Hououin "mad scientist" Kyouma.

I'm more of a punctuated equilibrium kind of guy, it seems to fit the fossil record a little better and changes in species populations, when they do happen, seem to happen pretty quickly as new predetors or other environmental forces turn up on the scene.

Are you being serious or are you trolling? If you were trolling in your last post, or I misunderstood the meaning of it, then I will apologize, but if you're just trolling then I won't.

I was being serious in both my comments, though in the first my tongue was firmly in my cheek - I tend to think PE fits the evidence better, yet at the same time, even looking at the links that SamStevens put up that its all a little bit "you say potato, I say pataata" because as evolution deals with change so many concepts appear to be quite unfalsifiable. for example...the first sentence in the first link:

Gradualism and punctuated equilibrium are two ways in which the evolution of a species can occur. A species can evolve by only one of these, or by both.

so you can have it both ways - its a very maliable theory. With this in mind the entire thread is a little bit like asking....Can you get from London to Paris by plane or by train?
Not my gumdrop buttons!

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HououinKyouma
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1/14/2015 2:37:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/13/2015 4:39:33 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 1/13/2015 4:14:07 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/12/2015 8:44:08 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 1/12/2015 7:47:22 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
At 1/12/2015 5:06:32 PM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 12/27/2014 4:53:36 PM, HououinKyouma wrote:
To those on DDO that are interested in Evolutionary theory, I would like to ask which model of evolution you guys prefer, Punctuated Equilibrium or the more traditional Phyletic gradualist model?

This is why I love evolution....its like the Borg of scientific theories....it so awesomely constructed is can just swallow everything up.

Evolution is slow, except when it is fast
Similarities are evidence of evolution, Differences are evidence of evolution

Its more flexible than a Romanian gymnast

Thank you for showing how you completely misunderstand the theory of evolution and the topic at hand.

You are welcome.

Sincerely Yours,

Hououin "mad scientist" Kyouma.

I'm more of a punctuated equilibrium kind of guy, it seems to fit the fossil record a little better and changes in species populations, when they do happen, seem to happen pretty quickly as new predetors or other environmental forces turn up on the scene.

Are you being serious or are you trolling? If you were trolling in your last post, or I misunderstood the meaning of it, then I will apologize, but if you're just trolling then I won't.

I was being serious in both my comments, though in the first my tongue was firmly in my cheek - I tend to think PE fits the evidence better, yet at the same time, even looking at the links that SamStevens put up that its all a little bit "you say potato, I say pataata" because as evolution deals with change so many concepts appear to be quite unfalsifiable. for example...the first sentence in the first link:

Gradualism and punctuated equilibrium are two ways in which the evolution of a species can occur. A species can evolve by only one of these, or by both.

so you can have it both ways - its a very maliable theory. With this in mind the entire thread is a little bit like asking....Can you get from London to Paris by plane or by train?

Thank you, this clarifies things. The point though is that quite a few evolutionary biologists and paleontologists insist that it must be an either/or question, in other words, you can't split the difference and try to have it both ways with Phylectic Gradualism and Punctuated Equilibrium.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." F. Nietzsche.

"Freedom is always freedom for the one who thinks differently." R. Luxemburg.

"The principle of the masochistic left is that, in general, two blacks make a white, half a loaf is the same as no bread." G. Orwell, paraphrase.

"Islamophobia is a word created by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate morons". Andrew Cummins.