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PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/8/2010 5:16:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 7:58:06 PM, cjl wrote:
Is it genetic?:

There is no rock solid, empirical evidence that it is genetic, but enough circumstantial and anecdotal evidence highly suggests that it is.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/8/2010 8:34:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
In short, all sex is a choice -- it's a choice to act on your biological impulses. Those biological impulses are part of your anatomy meaning attraction is not a 'choice.' I suffer from a migraine condition -- Is that a choice? Or it just a part of my biological nature?

Sex is a choice; sexuality isn't. After taking a class called Human Sexuality (which I thought was going to be a social class but it turned out to be a very hard science class!!!) I learned a lot about sex, sexual impulses and other biological factors that go into 'sex.' I'm sure genetics play some role in determining sexuality, but I think it has more to do with hormones. Of course since genetics play a factor in hormones, the two are related.

INB4 Bible Thumpers quoting the Bible about gays being immoral.
President of DDO
cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/8/2010 1:40:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well I can say that you are born with t because I was. My genes were and are what they are. My genes, according to science, are what I am, in simple terms. But why would we choose to be gay? Many of the attention reasons apply to few.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/8/2010 2:52:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
One of the things that is important to know about this question is why do we ask it? I have come to know the stakes that are involved for those who are religiously dogmatic. If it is biological or genetic it is of God's plan and is somewhat sanctioned by His will. Therefore, it is imperative to make this of man's making so that it will be put at a moral level and not a biological level, and therefore a sin, or not of God's will.

Many gay people ask this of themselves in the early stages of coming out, because they are wrestling with the issues that society puts before us. Eventually, if all goes well, you just say I don't really give a damn. You reconcile who you are with society and with God if he is in your life and move on with the business of living.
cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/9/2010 7:35:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:52:30 PM, innomen wrote:
One of the things that is important to know about this question is why do we ask it? I have come to know the stakes that are involved for those who are religiously dogmatic. If it is biological or genetic it is of God's plan and is somewhat sanctioned by His will. Therefore, it is imperative to make this of man's making so that it will be put at a moral level and not a biological level, and therefore a sin, or not of God's will.

Many gay people ask this of themselves in the early stages of coming out, because they are wrestling with the issues that society puts before us. Eventually, if all goes well, you just say I don't really give a damn. You reconcile who you are with society and with God if he is in your life and move on with the business of living.

We ask it because all beings long for answers, as many as possible.
innomen
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7/9/2010 8:22:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 7:35:49 AM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:52:30 PM, innomen wrote:
One of the things that is important to know about this question is why do we ask it? I have come to know the stakes that are involved for those who are religiously dogmatic. If it is biological or genetic it is of God's plan and is somewhat sanctioned by His will. Therefore, it is imperative to make this of man's making so that it will be put at a moral level and not a biological level, and therefore a sin, or not of God's will.

Many gay people ask this of themselves in the early stages of coming out, because they are wrestling with the issues that society puts before us. Eventually, if all goes well, you just say I don't really give a damn. You reconcile who you are with society and with God if he is in your life and move on with the business of living.

We ask it because all beings long for answers, as many as possible.

I don't ask why i like strawberries, i just do. But this question seems of far greater importance because our lives are dictated (to a certain degree) by this particular aspect of our desires, and it is a not a statistically normal life, and thus controversial.
cjl
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7/9/2010 8:24:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 8:22:39 AM, innomen wrote:
At 7/9/2010 7:35:49 AM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:52:30 PM, innomen wrote:
One of the things that is important to know about this question is why do we ask it? I have come to know the stakes that are involved for those who are religiously dogmatic. If it is biological or genetic it is of God's plan and is somewhat sanctioned by His will. Therefore, it is imperative to make this of man's making so that it will be put at a moral level and not a biological level, and therefore a sin, or not of God's will.

Many gay people ask this of themselves in the early stages of coming out, because they are wrestling with the issues that society puts before us. Eventually, if all goes well, you just say I don't really give a damn. You reconcile who you are with society and with God if he is in your life and move on with the business of living.

We ask it because all beings long for answers, as many as possible.

I don't ask why i like strawberries, i just do. But this question seems of far greater importance because our lives are dictated (to a certain degree) by this particular aspect of our desires, and it is a not a statistically normal life, and thus controversial.

Well most people do.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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7/9/2010 3:07:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's not genetic because change is possible. I'm gonna debate Lwerd about it soon. Even the APA the most bias pro gay association admits it's a mix.

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

APA site.

Basically - Dunno, but...

Both gay gene's 93' and 03' where both disproven. Any others(10') only show 'maculating' genes('lesbian' mice), they made mice that produce male hormones and act male. Any smart observational scientist can see that's not lesbian mouse that's a gender confused mouse. The folks at newscientist can't see this. Lol.
http://www.newscientist.com...

Misc video.
http://www.wjla.com...
'sup DDO -- july 2013
cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/10/2010 9:17:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:07:57 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not genetic because change is possible. I'm gonna debate Lwerd about it soon. Even the APA the most bias pro gay association admits it's a mix.

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

APA site.

Basically - Dunno, but...


Both gay gene's 93' and 03' where both disproven. Any others(10') only show 'maculating' genes('lesbian' mice), they made mice that produce male hormones and act male. Any smart observational scientist can see that's not lesbian mouse that's a gender confused mouse. The folks at newscientist can't see this. Lol.
http://www.newscientist.com...

Misc video.
http://www.wjla.com...

I will be watching that debate.
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/11/2010 12:10:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://discovermagazine.com...

Ta-da.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/11/2010 12:34:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:07:57 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not genetic because change is possible. I'm gonna debate Lwerd about it soon. Even the APA the most bias pro gay association admits it's a mix.

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

APA site.

Basically - Dunno, but...


Both gay gene's 93' and 03' where both disproven. Any others(10') only show 'maculating' genes('lesbian' mice), they made mice that produce male hormones and act male. Any smart observational scientist can see that's not lesbian mouse that's a gender confused mouse. The folks at newscientist can't see this. Lol.
http://www.newscientist.com...

Misc video.
http://www.wjla.com...

Most genetic things which cause things like...immunity to AIDs, schizophrenia, cancer, left-handedness, etc, are a mix. None of these are evil or unnatural or harmful simply because they are unnatural, this is how we evolve--what gets passed down gets passed down, it's not a value judgement.

Come on Zeb, you know better than sexuality being just hetero or homosexual. It's a mix. Most people are on a scale, not one or the other.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/11/2010 7:21:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:07:57 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not genetic because change is possible. I'm gonna debate Lwerd about it soon. Even the APA the most bias pro gay association admits it's a mix.

I'm highly looking forward to this debate. Nobody ever said that sexuality was entirely genetic; other factors - including genetics (and environment, culture, etc.) play a role. It's certainly not a choice, and genes are entirely relevant. Please oh please send me this debate challenge asap.

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors.

Oxy-moron. You say it's not genetically related but concede that biological factors are involved? Well hmm. What's biology? From Wiki - Biology is a natural science concerned with the study of life and living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, distribution, and taxonomy. Among the most important topics are five unifying principles that can be said to be the fundamental axioms of modern biology; the 3rd one states that genes are the basic unit of heredity. Genetics is a discipline of biology; it's the science of heredity and variation in living organisms.

pwned.

I'm going to absolutely destroy you in this debate, Zetsubou.
President of DDO
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/11/2010 5:15:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/11/2010 7:21:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:07:57 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not genetic because change is possible. I'm gonna debate Lwerd about it soon. Even the APA the most bias pro gay association admits it's a mix.

I'm highly looking forward to this debate. Nobody ever said that sexuality was entirely genetic; other factors - including genetics (and environment, culture, etc.) play a role. It's certainly not a choice, and genes are entirely relevant. Please oh please send me this debate challenge asap.

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors.

Oxy-moron. You say it's not genetically related but concede that biological factors are involved? Well hmm. What's biology? From Wiki - Biology is a natural science concerned with the study of life and living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, distribution, and taxonomy. Among the most important topics are five unifying principles that can be said to be the fundamental axioms of modern biology; the 3rd one states that genes are the basic unit of heredity. Genetics is a discipline of biology; it's the science of heredity and variation in living organisms.

pwned.

I'm going to absolutely destroy you in this debate, Zetsubou.

I can't wait.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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7/12/2010 8:48:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/11/2010 7:21:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:07:57 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
It's not genetic because change is possible. I'm gonna debate Lwerd about it soon. Even the APA the most bias pro gay association admits it's a mix.

I'm highly looking forward to this debate. Nobody ever said that sexuality was entirely genetic; other factors - including genetics (and environment, culture, etc.) play a role. It's certainly not a choice, and genes are entirely relevant. Please oh please send me this debate challenge asap.

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors.

Oxy-moron. You say it's not genetically related but concede that biological factors are involved? Well hmm. What's biology? From Wiki - Biology is a natural science concerned with the study of life and living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, distribution, and taxonomy. Among the most important topics are five unifying principles that can be said to be the fundamental axioms of modern biology; the 3rd one states that genes are the basic unit of heredity. Genetics is a discipline of biology; it's the science of heredity and variation in living organisms.

pwned.

I'm going to absolutely destroy you in this debate, Zetsubou.

Some religious groups, churches, etc. believe that "unwanted" homosexuality can be "cured" with a mixture of aversion therapy and hormonal implants.

What do you think?
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JustCallMeTarzan
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7/12/2010 8:51:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 7:58:06 PM, cjl wrote:
Is it genetic?

Yes and no. Nobody really understands whether or not it is completely genetic or completely a choice, but there is evidence that it is genetically based in part. Personally, I think it is genetic. There is good evidence that the more male children a woman has, it becomes increasingly likely that the next child will be homosexual.

I don't know what the study says about lesbians, but I think that's an entirely different ballgame, mostly because female sexuality is a lot more "fluid" than male sexuality.

But here's something to think about... if people tell you it is wholly choice... Can you remember choosing to be gay? Ask the other person if they remember choosing to be straight...
innomen
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7/12/2010 8:54:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/12/2010 8:51:58 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 7/7/2010 7:58:06 PM, cjl wrote:
Is it genetic?

Yes and no. Nobody really understands whether or not it is completely genetic or completely a choice, but there is evidence that it is genetically based in part. Personally, I think it is genetic. There is good evidence that the more male children a woman has, it becomes increasingly likely that the next child will be homosexual.

I don't know what the study says about lesbians, but I think that's an entirely different ballgame, mostly because female sexuality is a lot more "fluid" than male sexuality.

But here's something to think about... if people tell you it is wholly choice... Can you remember choosing to be gay? Ask the other person if they remember choosing to be straight...

Remember that it needs to be a choice so it will fall within free will, and not God's plan.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/12/2010 9:05:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/11/2010 7:21:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:

I'm going to absolutely destroy you in this debate, Zetsubou.

As much as I dislike the child I don't really want to watch you handing him back his bloodied testicals.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/12/2010 2:09:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/12/2010 8:54:59 AM, innomen wrote:
At 7/12/2010 8:51:58 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 7/7/2010 7:58:06 PM, cjl wrote:
Is it genetic?

Yes and no. Nobody really understands whether or not it is completely genetic or completely a choice, but there is evidence that it is genetically based in part. Personally, I think it is genetic. There is good evidence that the more male children a woman has, it becomes increasingly likely that the next child will be homosexual.

I don't know what the study says about lesbians, but I think that's an entirely different ballgame, mostly because female sexuality is a lot more "fluid" than male sexuality.

But here's something to think about... if people tell you it is wholly choice... Can you remember choosing to be gay? Ask the other person if they remember choosing to be straight...

Remember that it needs to be a choice so it will fall within free will, and not God's plan.

Well, for me it was genetic. Just that microscopic shift of some DNA parts. But thats me. Maybe itm is choice for some.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/12/2010 2:43:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/12/2010 2:09:24 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/12/2010 8:54:59 AM, innomen wrote:
At 7/12/2010 8:51:58 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 7/7/2010 7:58:06 PM, cjl wrote:
Is it genetic?

Yes and no. Nobody really understands whether or not it is completely genetic or completely a choice, but there is evidence that it is genetically based in part. Personally, I think it is genetic. There is good evidence that the more male children a woman has, it becomes increasingly likely that the next child will be homosexual.

I don't know what the study says about lesbians, but I think that's an entirely different ballgame, mostly because female sexuality is a lot more "fluid" than male sexuality.

But here's something to think about... if people tell you it is wholly choice... Can you remember choosing to be gay? Ask the other person if they remember choosing to be straight...

Remember that it needs to be a choice so it will fall within free will, and not God's plan.

Well, for me it was genetic. Just that microscopic shift of some DNA parts. But thats me. Maybe itm is choice for some.

Oh it wasn't a choice for me either; I'm just saying that the fundamentalists will need it to not be a choice for it to be consistent with their dogma.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/12/2010 2:48:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/12/2010 2:43:40 PM, innomen wrote:
At 7/12/2010 2:09:24 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/12/2010 8:54:59 AM, innomen wrote:
At 7/12/2010 8:51:58 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 7/7/2010 7:58:06 PM, cjl wrote:
Is it genetic?

Yes and no. Nobody really understands whether or not it is completely genetic or completely a choice, but there is evidence that it is genetically based in part. Personally, I think it is genetic. There is good evidence that the more male children a woman has, it becomes increasingly likely that the next child will be homosexual.

I don't know what the study says about lesbians, but I think that's an entirely different ballgame, mostly because female sexuality is a lot more "fluid" than male sexuality.

But here's something to think about... if people tell you it is wholly choice... Can you remember choosing to be gay? Ask the other person if they remember choosing to be straight...

Remember that it needs to be a choice so it will fall within free will, and not God's plan.

Well, for me it was genetic. Just that microscopic shift of some DNA parts. But thats me. Maybe itm is choice for some.

Oh it wasn't a choice for me either; I'm just saying that the fundamentalists will need it to not be a choice for it to be consistent with their dogma.

Hmm, I don't think so. Lust is a sin regardless of whether or not its hetero or homo. From the point of view of the bible a celibate homosexual is on the same footing as any heterosexual.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.