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ADHD Does Not Exist

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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2/14/2015 1:55:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What a controversial book! Ever wondered if you have Attention Deficit Disorder?

In today's Book-of-the-Day, "ADHD Does Not Exist," Dr. Richard Saul says, "Not a single individual " not even the person who finds it close to impossible to pay attention or sit still " is afflicted by the disorder called ADHD..."

It's interesting because this is not some random quack doctor making these claims. This is a highly esteemed doctor from the University of Chicago with more than 50 years of practice.

I didn't realize that 11% of children in the USA and 4% of adults are diagnosed with ADHD (more than a 40% jump in the last decade).

He lays out his central point by saying, "Nasal congestion can be a symptom of a cold, but a runny nose is not a diagnosis" In the same way, the symptom complex associated with the ADHD diagnosis is related to more than 20 medical diagnosis that, when treated effectively, can result in the disappearance of the attention-deficit and hyperactivity symptoms."

If he's right then just like so many other things in the world, we are treating symptoms.

Not the root issues...

We are putting Band-Aids on big cuts instead of stitching them up.

Interesting that he also says that most children diagnosed with ADHD might have learning disabilities but they also have higher IQs than average.

Dr. Saul tells a story about a fourth grade kid who was always causing trouble in class and was diagnosed with ADHD because of it.

Dr. Saul says he asked the mom if the boy was disruptive in all classes.

The mom said no, only in math.

Dr. Saul diagnosed the kid as being simply bored. So once they moved the boy up to the fifth grade math class (one grade higher), his disruptive behavior disappeared overnight.

It didn't take any medications.

Simple solution.

Now I don't know if this book is accurate. I'm no doctor.

But I do know that you and I live in a world that usually tries to take "magic pills" to solve complex problems.

We take the easy way out...

Just like one of the key concepts in the "67 Steps." This is the difference between the Stoic and Epicurean.

Whenever you find something keeping you from finding the "Good Life" (health, wealth, love, and happiness) first start by trying to get to the root of the problem.

Don't mask the symptoms.

If you are in my business mentorship program you've heard me talk about how Benjamin Graham's book "The Intelligent Investor" says that to take action you have to follow three progressive steps:

1. Tested judgment

2. Adequate knowledge

3. Courage in action

So for your own life, when you diagnose your problems, take action by reading more, going to more seminars, listening to more audiobooks, watching more YouTube videos, finding more mentors, until your level of "adequate knowledge "increases.

Anyways, let me know what you think - has ADHD been over diagnosed and overmedicated in the modern world?
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/14/2015 3:29:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I concur.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,170
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2/14/2015 7:00:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Believe it or not this is welfare related.

In the U.S. in 1996 bi-partisan effort passed welfare reform, 'ending welfare as we know it'.
The primary effort ended AFDC cash assistance, replacing it with TANF, a block grant programs (as opposed to an entitlement program). TANF has strong work requirements, and theoretical time limits. If you ask a politician or look in the textbooks they will say TANF replaced AFDC, but if you dig deeper you will see AFDC was replaced with a variety of vendor payment programs, and SSI - federal welfare.

TANF is less than 5% of the welfare budget.
Many household who would be eligible for TANF do no apply, because they do not want to bother with work requirements or child support and can get along just fine with all the other welfare programs.
Of those who do receive TANF, half of all household have no adult household member, so there are no work requirements, and no time limits. The head of household is not on the grant because they receive SSI, or are a non-parent custodian.

Supplemental Security Income is administered by Social Security but not related to it.
It is federal welfare, paid for out of the general fund, for aged and disabled persons, who are low income.
Some statistics:
One in 40 U.S. citizens receives SSI.
For those households with an SSI child, half of all income is the child's SSI. For many it is the only income - family of four living off the income of one disabled child, and various vendor payment welfare programs.
The fastest growing segment of SSI is for children with mental disorders.
Bi-polar is big, maybe bigger than ADHD, I have never seen eligibility broken down to exact diagnosis.
The cash payment of SSI is the tip of the iceberg, actual benefits go much deeper, the cash itself is just over $700 a month. Remember, the tip of the iceberg.

There are studies attempting to show that ADHD is not a U.S.A. problem - meaning of course that it seems as though it is.
I suspect other countries with large social welfare budgets seeing similar trends, but I have not investigated.
"Is it an American condition?"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Many professionals and organizations in mental health are dependent on government dollars for payroll and operation. When not government, Private insurance needs a recognized diagnosis to justify payouts.
If you subsidize something you will get more of it.

Like so many things there are many pieces to the puzzle.
Those with funding to put the pieces together are often have serving interests that prevent meaningful research.

~ ~ ~

SSI recipients -
On average, SSI payments accounted for nearly half of the income for the children's families,
Overall, 36 percent of the children were reported to have had disabilities that affected their abilities to do things "a great deal," and for 21 percent their difficulties had very little or no impact. Physical disabilities were most common among children aged 0 to 5, and mental disabilities dominated the picture for the other two age groups: 6 to 12 and 13 to 17.
http://www.ssa.gov...

~ ~
The number of SSI child recipients more than tripled between 1989 (before Zebley) and 1995. The number of SSI awards to children based on mental disorders increased significantly, with a heightened awareness surrounding attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and mental disorders that resulted in maladaptive behavior. Awards for low birth weight also increased dramatically.
http://www.ssa.gov...

~ ~
Today"s antipoverty safety net is dramatically different from the one in place two decades ago when welfare reform (TANF) was enacted. Rather than a safety net primarily dependent on cash assistance programs, as is the common perception, the current system is highly reliant on social service programs funded by government and delivered through community-based nonprofits. Annual public and private expenditures for social service programs today exceed total federal outlays for cash assistance programs like welfare, food stamps, and the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).|
http://ed.stanford.edu...
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,170
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2/14/2015 7:12:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Many parents (not all) coach children so they continue to meet SSI standards for mentally disabled.
After all, they are the 'bread winner'.
The evidence for this is of course anecdotal, but ask any welfare eligibility worker and they will tell you of incidents they have knowledge about.
If you ask an MSW social worker, they may deny this. They are part of the self-serving crowd.
An MSW has a caseload of less than a dozen families, eligibility workers typically have 500 households.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,731
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2/14/2015 10:02:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've been speaking out against ADHD and the drugs they prescribe for it for almost 20 years. There's one of two positions I'll accept on the subject:
1) ADHD does not exist, it is simply a set of vague criteria applied to kids who aren't fitting perfectly into the cookie-cutter roles we are setting for them in school or
2) There is a condition we should be concerned about, the cause of which is not a chemical imbalance that should be medicated, but simply our modern lifestyles. Kids' minds are changed by being subjected to sitting in front of screens for hours a day, they aren't properly educated and motivated in school, and there are all sorts of diet, exercise, and sleep concerns that previous generations didn't have to deal with.

In either case, the answer is not drugs, it is a different approach to educating them and indeed raising them.

I talked to a guy in 2001, he was a coworker of mine at Subway. He was taking ADHD medication. I told him my views on the subject, and he told me he disagreed because he could concentrate better when he had his meds. It was depressing to hear him say that, he was only a teenager and already addicted to these pills they were giving him. Once these kids are fed these things, they become addicts and they can't function without them.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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2/14/2015 2:22:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well if it exists, I don't know why it needs to be medicated or it is considered patological. Teachers have been dealing just fine with supposed ADHD kids since... always. They just need alternative methodologies for learning.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/14/2015 2:28:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 10:02:11 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I've been speaking out against ADHD and the drugs they prescribe for it for almost 20 years. There's one of two positions I'll accept on the subject:
1) ADHD does not exist, it is simply a set of vague criteria applied to kids who aren't fitting perfectly into the cookie-cutter roles we are setting for them in school or
2) There is a condition we should be concerned about, the cause of which is not a chemical imbalance that should be medicated, but simply our modern lifestyles. Kids' minds are changed by being subjected to sitting in front of screens for hours a day, they aren't properly educated and motivated in school, and there are all sorts of diet, exercise, and sleep concerns that previous generations didn't have to deal with.

In either case, the answer is not drugs, it is a different approach to educating them and indeed raising them.

I talked to a guy in 2001, he was a coworker of mine at Subway. He was taking ADHD medication. I told him my views on the subject, and he told me he disagreed because he could concentrate better when he had his meds. It was depressing to hear him say that, he was only a teenager and already addicted to these pills they were giving him. Once these kids are fed these things, they become addicts and they can't function without them.

Are you really so much of an expert on this topic that you can feel sorry for someone who is on these medications and believe that it helps them?
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,731
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2/14/2015 2:31:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 2:28:30 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/14/2015 10:02:11 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I've been speaking out against ADHD and the drugs they prescribe for it for almost 20 years. There's one of two positions I'll accept on the subject:
1) ADHD does not exist, it is simply a set of vague criteria applied to kids who aren't fitting perfectly into the cookie-cutter roles we are setting for them in school or
2) There is a condition we should be concerned about, the cause of which is not a chemical imbalance that should be medicated, but simply our modern lifestyles. Kids' minds are changed by being subjected to sitting in front of screens for hours a day, they aren't properly educated and motivated in school, and there are all sorts of diet, exercise, and sleep concerns that previous generations didn't have to deal with.

In either case, the answer is not drugs, it is a different approach to educating them and indeed raising them.

I talked to a guy in 2001, he was a coworker of mine at Subway. He was taking ADHD medication. I told him my views on the subject, and he told me he disagreed because he could concentrate better when he had his meds. It was depressing to hear him say that, he was only a teenager and already addicted to these pills they were giving him. Once these kids are fed these things, they become addicts and they can't function without them.

Are you really so much of an expert on this topic that you can feel sorry for someone who is on these medications and believe that it helps them?

Um... yeah that's how much of an expert I am. Pretty impressive eh?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/14/2015 3:40:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 2:31:59 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 2/14/2015 2:28:30 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/14/2015 10:02:11 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I've been speaking out against ADHD and the drugs they prescribe for it for almost 20 years. There's one of two positions I'll accept on the subject:
1) ADHD does not exist, it is simply a set of vague criteria applied to kids who aren't fitting perfectly into the cookie-cutter roles we are setting for them in school or
2) There is a condition we should be concerned about, the cause of which is not a chemical imbalance that should be medicated, but simply our modern lifestyles. Kids' minds are changed by being subjected to sitting in front of screens for hours a day, they aren't properly educated and motivated in school, and there are all sorts of diet, exercise, and sleep concerns that previous generations didn't have to deal with.

In either case, the answer is not drugs, it is a different approach to educating them and indeed raising them.

I talked to a guy in 2001, he was a coworker of mine at Subway. He was taking ADHD medication. I told him my views on the subject, and he told me he disagreed because he could concentrate better when he had his meds. It was depressing to hear him say that, he was only a teenager and already addicted to these pills they were giving him. Once these kids are fed these things, they become addicts and they can't function without them.

Are you really so much of an expert on this topic that you can feel sorry for someone who is on these medications and believe that it helps them?

Um... yeah that's how much of an expert I am. Pretty impressive eh?

What I mean is that I would expect someone with sufficient conviction in a belief (in the Bayesian sense) to cause them to feel pity towards another person to also have a very well established understanding of the topic. In other words, I was asking about your degree of certainty. I was also implicitly asking what kind of study you've done on the topic.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,170
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2/14/2015 6:30:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/14/2015 2:22:41 PM, Otokage wrote:
Well if it exists, I don't know why it needs to be medicated or it is considered patological. Teachers have been dealing just fine with supposed ADHD kids since... always. They just need alternative methodologies for learning.

Yes, 12 years of secondary education, and never heard of anyone at our school(s) that needed medication, counseling, or treatment.
Teachers adapted, students adapted, life went on.
Discipline problems? Sure. Disability payments or treatment? No.

I was taking University classes on child development child psych, and 'exception children' in 1969. Not a single chapter on ADD or ADHD.
How to handle 'hyper-active' children in the classroom, yes.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/15/2015 4:02:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Fool: Although nobody has perfect attention all the time, there is a huge continuum and at one point it becomes a significant problem.

Secondly, it's mostly diagnosed and boys because the shift and of learning styles in school has been made to cater to girls success. (thus the jump in diagnosis ) The everybody's a winner learning style which caters to femininity.. And some feminist would even get rid of marking altogether, as to not hurt anybody's feelings.

Boys on the other hand strive in an environments where there is competition, that is, winners and losers and they will start becoming disinterested, when it becomes this gray and colorless mediocrity...

Against The Ideologist
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/15/2015 4:10:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*The Fool: Secondly, it's mostly diagnosed [to] boys and caused by the shift of learning styles in school has been made to cater to girls success as opposed to boys.. .. Because of course it's their fault and not the environment.. They must be retarded or something because they're not like girls, so let's give them some drugs, to be more like girls"
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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2/15/2015 4:17:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Interesting.

I can't disagree that some kids just can't pay attention in school as well as others though.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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2/15/2015 4:44:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/15/2015 4:10:01 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:

"They must be retarded or something because they're not like girls, so let's give them some drugs, to be more like girls""

The Fool: For the record. ADD used to actually be called, minor retardation at one point.
<(8D)

Fun Fact:
"Mongolism was a medical term used to identify someone with Down syndrome. The Mongolian People's Republic requested that the medical community cease use of the term as a referent to intellectual disability.
<(XD)

" Their request was granted in the 1960s, when the World Health Organization agreed that the term should cease being used within the medical community.""
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL