Total Posts:13|Showing Posts:1-13
Jump to topic:

Life not as we know it

Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm a little bored with the ID vs evolution stuff here, figured I'd share something else that I found pretty interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

"A new type of methane-based, oxygen-free life form that can metabolize and reproduce similar to life on Earth has been modeled. It is theorized to have a cell membrane, composed of small organic nitrogen compounds and capable of functioning in liquid methane temperatures of 292 degrees below zero"

While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it. Does this open the door to exploring worlds previously thought uninhabitable? If we find something like these cells on another planet/moon, how will it impact our understanding of life on earth?
gingerbread-man
Posts: 301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2015 12:07:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
I'm a little bored with the ID vs evolution stuff here, figured I'd share something else that I found pretty interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

"A new type of methane-based, oxygen-free life form that can metabolize and reproduce similar to life on Earth has been modeled. It is theorized to have a cell membrane, composed of small organic nitrogen compounds and capable of functioning in liquid methane temperatures of 292 degrees below zero"

While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it. Does this open the door to exploring worlds previously thought uninhabitable? If we find something like these cells on another planet/moon, how will it impact our understanding of life on earth?

Sounds an awful like ID to me.
Not my gumdrop buttons!

Debates currently in voting period:

http://www.debate.org...
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2015 12:11:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 12:07:12 AM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
I'm a little bored with the ID vs evolution stuff here, figured I'd share something else that I found pretty interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

"A new type of methane-based, oxygen-free life form that can metabolize and reproduce similar to life on Earth has been modeled. It is theorized to have a cell membrane, composed of small organic nitrogen compounds and capable of functioning in liquid methane temperatures of 292 degrees below zero"

While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it. Does this open the door to exploring worlds previously thought uninhabitable? If we find something like these cells on another planet/moon, how will it impact our understanding of life on earth?

Sounds an awful like ID to me.

DAMN YOU, hahaha!!!!
gingerbread-man
Posts: 301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2015 12:16:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 12:11:24 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:
At 3/3/2015 12:07:12 AM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
I'm a little bored with the ID vs evolution stuff here, figured I'd share something else that I found pretty interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

"A new type of methane-based, oxygen-free life form that can metabolize and reproduce similar to life on Earth has been modeled. It is theorized to have a cell membrane, composed of small organic nitrogen compounds and capable of functioning in liquid methane temperatures of 292 degrees below zero"

While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it. Does this open the door to exploring worlds previously thought uninhabitable? If we find something like these cells on another planet/moon, how will it impact our understanding of life on earth?

Sounds an awful like ID to me.

DAMN YOU, hahaha!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;o)
Not my gumdrop buttons!

Debates currently in voting period:

http://www.debate.org...
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2015 12:49:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 12:16:02 AM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 3/3/2015 12:11:24 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:
At 3/3/2015 12:07:12 AM, gingerbread-man wrote:
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
I'm a little bored with the ID vs evolution stuff here, figured I'd share something else that I found pretty interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

"A new type of methane-based, oxygen-free life form that can metabolize and reproduce similar to life on Earth has been modeled. It is theorized to have a cell membrane, composed of small organic nitrogen compounds and capable of functioning in liquid methane temperatures of 292 degrees below zero"

While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it. Does this open the door to exploring worlds previously thought uninhabitable? If we find something like these cells on another planet/moon, how will it impact our understanding of life on earth?

Sounds an awful like ID to me.

DAMN YOU, hahaha!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;o)

All good; kinda invited that one...probably should have left the preface out.
Gustav_Adolf_II
Posts: 80
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2015 9:41:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
I'm a little bored with the ID vs evolution stuff here, figured I'd share something else that I found pretty interesting.

http://www.sciencedaily.com...

"A new type of methane-based, oxygen-free life form that can metabolize and reproduce similar to life on Earth has been modeled. It is theorized to have a cell membrane, composed of small organic nitrogen compounds and capable of functioning in liquid methane temperatures of 292 degrees below zero"

While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it. Does this open the door to exploring worlds previously thought uninhabitable? If we find something like these cells on another planet/moon, how will it impact our understanding of life on earth?

This is really interesting, I think I'll follow this story and check in for progress. This could lead to very interesting discoveries.
"Quoting yourself only makes you look like an arrogant jerk" - Gustav_Adolf_II
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/3/2015 12:55:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it.

Also fascinating is that the earth itself was once a planet hostile to life as we presently know it, with very little oxygen in the atmosphere. Like the atmospheres of Mars and Venus, it is thought that volcanoes produced the earth's initial atmosphere: mostly carbon-dioxide, with a little nitrogen and no water vapour -- all the water being in the oceans.

It appears that life can emerge in that environment, and so transform it: from light nitrogen and no oxygen to lots of nitrogen, a fifth oxygen, and enough water vapour that it can rain, so other life forms can eventually appear inland.

But what happened to those first life-forms?

It may be that their own waste products -- oxygen and nitrogen -- killed them. Or perhaps they're still around, living in remote corners. Or did they become something else?

There are so many life-forms that can live in bizarre environments... Not just prokaryotes that can live on CO2 planets but microorganisms that can live in and around geysers and hotsprings and volcanic vents in the deep sea floor, with temperatures up to 752F. We have bacteria that like environments rich in cyanide, worms that prefer snow, bacteria that love acid hotsprings, algae that prefer water so salty you could almost stand a spoon in it, fungi that like their water with no oxygen at all, algae that enjoy the radiation of nuclear reactors, fish that only live under stupidly high pressures on the deep sea floor, and shrimp that like to live in deserts.

So it's a bit hard to imagine that some kinds of life can't appear on planets where we ourselves couldn't live.
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/4/2015 12:47:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 12:55:24 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2015 11:15:02 PM, Sosoconfused wrote:
While not actually a discovery; it's interesting to think of viable life forms in environments hostile to life as we know it.

Also fascinating is that the earth itself was once a planet hostile to life as we presently know it, with very little oxygen in the atmosphere. Like the atmospheres of Mars and Venus, it is thought that volcanoes produced the earth's initial atmosphere: mostly carbon-dioxide, with a little nitrogen and no water vapour -- all the water being in the oceans.

It appears that life can emerge in that environment, and so transform it: from light nitrogen and no oxygen to lots of nitrogen, a fifth oxygen, and enough water vapour that it can rain, so other life forms can eventually appear inland.

But what happened to those first life-forms?

It may be that their own waste products -- oxygen and nitrogen -- killed them. Or perhaps they're still around, living in remote corners. Or did they become something else?

There are so many life-forms that can live in bizarre environments... Not just prokaryotes that can live on CO2 planets but microorganisms that can live in and around geysers and hotsprings and volcanic vents in the deep sea floor, with temperatures up to 752F. We have bacteria that like environments rich in cyanide, worms that prefer snow, bacteria that love acid hotsprings, algae that prefer water so salty you could almost stand a spoon in it, fungi that like their water with no oxygen at all, algae that enjoy the radiation of nuclear reactors, fish that only live under stupidly high pressures on the deep sea floor, and shrimp that like to live in deserts.

So it's a bit hard to imagine that some kinds of life can't appear on planets where we ourselves couldn't live.

While I agree that life on earth has adapted wonderfully to even the extremes of earth; I though the most profound portion of this article was and entirely different chemistry of life. I.e. no phospholipids to produce cell membranes, a totally unique method of reproduction perhaps completely alien without the use of something like DNA.

If such a phenomena really exists would it fundamentally change our definition of life? Do we even have a good definition of life to start with?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/4/2015 1:00:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 12:47:36 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:
While I agree that life on earth has adapted wonderfully to even the extremes of earth; I though the most profound portion of this article was and entirely different chemistry of life. I.e. no phospholipids to produce cell membranes, a totally unique method of reproduction perhaps completely alien without the use of something like DNA.

Yes, I understand, but it's also increasingly looking like life on earth is weirder than we thought. For example, there was a recent result to show that metabolism can occur outside cells: http://www.newscientist.com...

If such a phenomena really exists would it fundamentally change our definition of life? Do we even have a good definition of life to start with?

I guess the point I'm heading to is that our criteria may be changing anyway, even without interplanetary speculation. We already have problems categorising viruses, but once we decide key metabolic processes can occur without organisms, and not every molecular replication is biological, what is left?

Adaptation perhaps, and that suggests evolution, so will we move from having life explained by evolution, to evolution defining life?

I can only imagine what our Creationist colleagues might make of that. :)
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/4/2015 1:53:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 1:00:42 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/4/2015 12:47:36 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:
While I agree that life on earth has adapted wonderfully to even the extremes of earth; I though the most profound portion of this article was and entirely different chemistry of life. I.e. no phospholipids to produce cell membranes, a totally unique method of reproduction perhaps completely alien without the use of something like DNA.

Yes, I understand, but it's also increasingly looking like life on earth is weirder than we thought. For example, there was a recent result to show that metabolism can occur outside cells: http://www.newscientist.com...

If such a phenomena really exists would it fundamentally change our definition of life? Do we even have a good definition of life to start with?

I guess the point I'm heading to is that our criteria may be changing anyway, even without interplanetary speculation. We already have problems categorising viruses, but once we decide key metabolic processes can occur without organisms, and not every molecular replication is biological, what is left?

Adaptation perhaps, and that suggests evolution, so will we move from having life explained by evolution, to evolution defining life?

I can only imagine what our Creationist colleagues might make of that. :)

haha, you heathen!!! Interesting to think that our definition of life may be the thing that is holding us back from discovering the origin of life. Perhaps soon genetic material won't even be a defining factor of life; perhaps just something that evolved over time but not necessary to the processes of early/simply life.

That's a cool article. I gotta read more on it. This kinda goes along with it http://www.sciencedaily.com... Looks like life may be a lot older than we think.

On the virus note, they may be getting upgraded into the land of the living soon.

http://news.discovery.com...

http://now.tufts.edu...

Exciting stuff happening. It's hard to keep up as the research seems to be pouring out.
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/4/2015 2:05:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 1:00:42 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/4/2015 12:47:36 AM, Sosoconfused wrote:
While I agree that life on earth has adapted wonderfully to even the extremes of earth; I though the most profound portion of this article was and entirely different chemistry of life. I.e. no phospholipids to produce cell membranes, a totally unique method of reproduction perhaps completely alien without the use of something like DNA.

Yes, I understand, but it's also increasingly looking like life on earth is weirder than we thought. For example, there was a recent result to show that metabolism can occur outside cells: http://www.newscientist.com...

If such a phenomena really exists would it fundamentally change our definition of life? Do we even have a good definition of life to start with?

I guess the point I'm heading to is that our criteria may be changing anyway, even without interplanetary speculation. We already have problems categorising viruses, but once we decide key metabolic processes can occur without organisms, and not every molecular replication is biological, what is left?

Adaptation perhaps, and that suggests evolution, so will we move from having life explained by evolution, to evolution defining life?

I can only imagine what our Creationist colleagues might make of that. :)

Also found this:
http://www.sciencealert.com...

The heathen scientists are at id again....now their really playing God, trying to build a totally different kind of life form based on what they call "XNA"....

I think we're gonna be throwing out our old notions of what constitutes life pretty soon and we'll have redefine that term almost in it's entirety.
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/4/2015 5:50:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 2:18:29 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Interesting links, Soso -- thank you!

Sure thing. Just glad to read something other than ID theory.