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Free will, consciousness,and instincts

janesix
Posts: 3,446
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4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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4/2/2015 7:01:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

I just read about this yesterday! There's a part of the brain that inhibits instinctive behavior and if you stimulate it, you can stop people/mice from eating when hungry etc. I'll see if I can find it again.

Point is, if you had that part of you stimulated chemically, and you kept "choosing" to refrain from impulsive behavior, to what extent is that "free will"?
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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4/2/2015 7:19:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 7:04:26 PM, janesix wrote:
Interesting. I'd like to see that article.

Me too. I can't find it now. I was sick yesterday, so maybe it was a nerdy feverish hallucination.
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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4/2/2015 9:21:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 8:04:28 PM, Garbanza wrote:
well okay I got the details wrong. But still.

Darn. That article was way to hard for me to comprehend.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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4/2/2015 9:44:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 9:21:58 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/2/2015 8:04:28 PM, Garbanza wrote:
well okay I got the details wrong. But still.

Darn. That article was way to hard for me to comprehend.

Here's a summary:

http://neurosciencenews.com...
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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4/3/2015 10:12:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

Overall, I agree, although I wouldn't say humans have a complete free will. I mean, conscious choices are always conditioned by the environment around you, so how "free" are the choices you are making? For example, if you are offered a job tomorrow I presume you will say you are free to accept it or not, but if you are having financial difficulties: how likely it is that you reject the job? Unlikely. So are you really that "free" to refuse it? Or are u similar to a mouse that will hardly reject food if its hungry?
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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4/3/2015 3:19:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 10:12:42 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

Overall, I agree, although I wouldn't say humans have a complete free will. I mean, conscious choices are always conditioned by the environment around you, so how "free" are the choices you are making? For example, if you are offered a job tomorrow I presume you will say you are free to accept it or not, but if you are having financial difficulties: how likely it is that you reject the job? Unlikely. So are you really that "free" to refuse it? Or are u similar to a mouse that will hardly reject food if its hungry?

I agree we don't have complete free will. I think we have MORE than a mouse though, because we are able to starve ourselves to death if we choose to, when I doubt a mouse could do that.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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4/4/2015 10:19:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/3/2015 3:19:06 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/3/2015 10:12:42 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

Overall, I agree, although I wouldn't say humans have a complete free will. I mean, conscious choices are always conditioned by the environment around you, so how "free" are the choices you are making? For example, if you are offered a job tomorrow I presume you will say you are free to accept it or not, but if you are having financial difficulties: how likely it is that you reject the job? Unlikely. So are you really that "free" to refuse it? Or are u similar to a mouse that will hardly reject food if its hungry?

I agree we don't have complete free will. I think we have MORE than a mouse though, because we are able to starve ourselves to death if we choose to, when I doubt a mouse could do that.

I think it's kind of difficult to conclude. Did you hear this story about a lioness that made friends with a gazelle, then starved to death? I think I saw it on youtube lol.
Evolutionofconspiracy
Posts: 8
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4/16/2015 3:49:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Things like free will, conciousness and instincts were tremendously beneficial in our rise to power as a species and so it makes sense that we have such a higher degree of these aspects. Although these abilities are being eroded by today. In fact I personally believe that several aspects of the human conciousness are significantly weaker than they were in ancient generations and continue to be deliberately subverted by those in authority.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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4/16/2015 4:56:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/16/2015 3:49:47 PM, Evolutionofconspiracy wrote:
Things like free will, conciousness and instincts were tremendously beneficial in our rise to power as a species and so it makes sense that we have such a higher degree of these aspects. Although these abilities are being eroded by today. In fact I personally believe that several aspects of the human conciousness are significantly weaker than they were in ancient generations and continue to be deliberately subverted by those in authority.

That seems like an interesting position. Could you elaborate?
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,171
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4/17/2015 8:07:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/4/2015 10:19:21 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/3/2015 3:19:06 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/3/2015 10:12:42 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

Overall, I agree, although I wouldn't say humans have a complete free will. I mean, conscious choices are always conditioned by the environment around you, so how "free" are the choices you are making? For example, if you are offered a job tomorrow I presume you will say you are free to accept it or not, but if you are having financial difficulties: how likely it is that you reject the job? Unlikely. So are you really that "free" to refuse it? Or are u similar to a mouse that will hardly reject food if its hungry?

I agree we don't have complete free will. I think we have MORE than a mouse though, because we are able to starve ourselves to death if we choose to, when I doubt a mouse could do that.

I think it's kind of difficult to conclude. Did you hear this story about a lioness that made friends with a gazelle, then starved to death? I think I saw it on youtube lol.

Lion and gazelle - yes.
Lion starves - no.
There was speculation the gazelle may have wondered off and starved.
MaxCool
Posts: 12
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4/17/2015 5:29:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

Free will. That statement means nothing. You are in a science forum, stop talking about psychology. Free from what...reason?
janesix
Posts: 3,446
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4/17/2015 6:21:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/17/2015 5:29:55 PM, MaxCool wrote:
At 4/2/2015 6:51:22 PM, janesix wrote:
I think that living things must have different levels of free will. I think free will has to depend on how far we can make choices that go against instincts. Humans have more free will than a mouse because we can make more conscious choices that can go against our natural instincts. Like we are more capable of refraining from eating if we are hungry.

Free will. That statement means nothing. You are in a science forum, stop talking about psychology. Free from what...reason?

Do you have a life, or do you just troll forums all day?