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Evolution and Aliens

Rubikx
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4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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4/6/2015 10:43:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Life seems to be easy(life started as soon as the Earth cooled off) but then it took billions of years for the first intelligent life to appear. Almost didn't happen, as cordates barely made it out of the Cambrian.

Probably lots of life, little intelligence.

It also takes a lot of technology, resources, and time to get from one star system to another.

Only one of the intelligent creatures on this planet have opposable thumbs to make tools and technology.

Intelligent creatures use their technology to destroy each other and their planet.

I could probably think of lots more.
Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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4/7/2015 9:06:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Personaly, I don't think it is a matter of "being an evolutionist" or not, but a matter of evidence. We have evidence that planets can support life as we are certain that Earth support life. We have no evidence and no reason to believe that Earth is a unique planet, so it is sensible to think there's millions of Earth-like planets in the universe, and therefore millions of planets capable of supporting Earth-like life.

This said, we have no evidence of aliens what so ever, so I can not take seriously alien encounters in the same way I can not take seriously people who claim to see God.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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4/7/2015 12:49:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:

....if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

It is impossible to disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens, if one believes in evolution. <sarcastically>

Maybe that was not really your point. I think your premise with a little spit and shine is relatively sound. One who believes life can start from the proper incubator of organic compounds, should also suspect it could happen elsewhere. The scientific community is engaged to uncovering whether life existed at some point on another body in our solar system.

In fact I just read of a brand new plan where NASA is going to drop a sub on to Titan where there are models of speculation of methane based life.

Now whether life elsewhere was able to evolve to a point where humans are is another question. I don't think someone who believes in aboigensis would particularly care to argue against it happening else where in the universe. It however is just wishful thinking at this stage because it can't be proven or denied, so why spend much time on it.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,860
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4/7/2015 12:52:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

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Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis. The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god. Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.
Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/7/2015 8:37:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:43:21 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Life seems to be easy(life started as soon as the Earth cooled off) but then it took billions of years for the first intelligent life to appear. Almost didn't happen, as cordates barely made it out of the Cambrian.

Probably lots of life, little intelligence.

It also takes a lot of technology, resources, and time to get from one star system to another.

Only one of the intelligent creatures on this planet have opposable thumbs to make tools and technology.

Intelligent creatures use their technology to destroy each other and their planet.

I could probably think of lots more.

But if evolution/abiogenesis is true there should be enough planets that support life that there should be more then just intelligent life on earth. And with so many planets intelligent life could have developed much faster on other planets then it did on earth. So there should be enough intelligent life, for long enough that there should be some evidence somewhere that they exist.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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4/7/2015 11:46:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis. The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god. Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.
Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

Evolution happens as long as life exists. How that life came to exist is irrelevant to any discussion about the validity of evolutionary theory. Evolution explains how life is diverse, not how it exists.

As to justifying abiogenesis on only one planet, I see no reason for anyone to do that since no one appears to be making the claim that it has only happened on one planet.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/7/2015 11:50:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

The belief that aliens exist, is different from the beleif that aliens have visited this earth and have abducted people.

Its like saying "Do you believe Plesiosaurs existed? So how could you discount the stories of the Lock Ness monster?"

Just because aliens exist, doesnt mean theyve come to earth, much like just because Plesiosaurs existed once on this planet, doesnt mean that one exists at the bottom of a lake in ireland.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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4/7/2015 11:54:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis.

No it doesn't.

The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god.

No, it isn't.

Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.

Belief shouldn't have a point. It's either true or untrue.

Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

I don't think you know what "statistically" means. To have that mean anything you'd have to have some grounds for asserting how many planets should support abiogenesis, and you'd have to know how likely abiogenesis was.
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/7/2015 11:54:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis. The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god. Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.
Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

No one is saying that aliens dont exist.

But the point about being a scientists, isnt accepting any claim until there is evidence to disprove its existance. Its NOT accepting a claim, until there is evidence to demonstrate its existance.

Personally, i think its very probable that alien life exists somewhere on this galaxy/universe. But its certainly not a fact like Evolution, nor would i ever claim it to be.
tkubok
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4/7/2015 11:55:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 8:37:27 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:43:21 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Life seems to be easy(life started as soon as the Earth cooled off) but then it took billions of years for the first intelligent life to appear. Almost didn't happen, as cordates barely made it out of the Cambrian.

Probably lots of life, little intelligence.

It also takes a lot of technology, resources, and time to get from one star system to another.

Only one of the intelligent creatures on this planet have opposable thumbs to make tools and technology.

Intelligent creatures use their technology to destroy each other and their planet.

I could probably think of lots more.

But if evolution/abiogenesis is true there should be enough planets that support life that there should be more then just intelligent life on earth. And with so many planets intelligent life could have developed much faster on other planets then it did on earth. So there should be enough intelligent life, for long enough that there should be some evidence somewhere that they exist.

Sure. And when you bring that evidence, you can confirm as a scientist that alien life, exists.

But until then, youre just stating your opinion, your personal belief. Which is fine. But since you called us out as being "Evolutionists", im guessing you want us to address this as scientists. And as a scientist, we have no evidence that aliens exist.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/8/2015 9:01:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 11:46:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis. The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god. Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.
Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

Evolution happens as long as life exists. How that life came to exist is irrelevant to any discussion about the validity of evolutionary theory. Evolution explains how life is diverse, not how it exists.

As to justifying abiogenesis on only one planet, I see no reason for anyone to do that since no one appears to be making the claim that it has only happened on one planet.

You where the one to make that claim, "You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.".
DanneJeRusse
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4/8/2015 10:52:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Space travel. Long term, really long term exposure to harmful electromagnet radiation would not allow it, life forms could not survive.
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Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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4/8/2015 1:33:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 9:01:54 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:46:00 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis. The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god. Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.
Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

Evolution happens as long as life exists. How that life came to exist is irrelevant to any discussion about the validity of evolutionary theory. Evolution explains how life is diverse, not how it exists.

As to justifying abiogenesis on only one planet, I see no reason for anyone to do that since no one appears to be making the claim that it has only happened on one planet.

You where the one to make that claim, "You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.".

And? Where in there do you see a claim that it has not happened? I made a claim about what it is possible to believe and not believe, not what has actually happened.
kman100
Posts: 24
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4/8/2015 1:49:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 8:37:27 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:43:21 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Life seems to be easy(life started as soon as the Earth cooled off) but then it took billions of years for the first intelligent life to appear. Almost didn't happen, as cordates barely made it out of the Cambrian.

Probably lots of life, little intelligence.

It also takes a lot of technology, resources, and time to get from one star system to another.

Only one of the intelligent creatures on this planet have opposable thumbs to make tools and technology.

Intelligent creatures use their technology to destroy each other and their planet.

I could probably think of lots more.

But if evolution/abiogenesis is true there should be enough planets that support life that there should be more then just intelligent life on earth. And with so many planets intelligent life could have developed much faster on other planets then it did on earth. So there should be enough intelligent life, for long enough that there should be some evidence somewhere that they exist.

Intelligent life is only one of the billions and billions of outcomes of evolution. Evolution isn't a linear path towards intelligence. Life is probably, but intelligent life is not.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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4/8/2015 3:01:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 9:06:05 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Personaly, I don't think it is a matter of "being an evolutionist" or not, but a matter of evidence. We have evidence that planets can support life as we are certain that Earth support life. We have no evidence and no reason to believe that Earth is a unique planet, so it is sensible to think there's millions of Earth-like planets in the universe, and therefore millions of planets capable of supporting Earth-like life.

Nonsense. Mention another planet with the Earth's atmosphere and water level.
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janesix
Posts: 3,491
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4/8/2015 3:36:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 8:37:27 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:43:21 PM, janesix wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Life seems to be easy(life started as soon as the Earth cooled off) but then it took billions of years for the first intelligent life to appear. Almost didn't happen, as cordates barely made it out of the Cambrian.

Probably lots of life, little intelligence.

It also takes a lot of technology, resources, and time to get from one star system to another.

Only one of the intelligent creatures on this planet have opposable thumbs to make tools and technology.

Intelligent creatures use their technology to destroy each other and their planet.

I could probably think of lots more.

But if evolution/abiogenesis is true there should be enough planets that support life that there should be more then just intelligent life on earth. And with so many planets intelligent life could have developed much faster on other planets then it did on earth. So there should be enough intelligent life, for long enough that there should be some evidence somewhere that they exist.

Intelligence isn't guaranteed. If it exists somewhere else, then of course there is evidence for it. How would we even know where to look?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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4/8/2015 4:11:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?
There have been a range of scientific views about life on other planets (by the way, professional 'evolutionists' are called 'scientists'.) For a while it wasn't clear how many life-supporting planets there are, since most cannot be seen, even through the most powerful telescopes. But astrophysical modelling suggests there ought to be very many, and this is beginning to be confirmed.

But still outstanding are the probabilities of a life-supporting planet actually producing life, and the chance of intelligent life emerging from that. It's quite conceivable (and a bit sad) that although intelligent life exists, or has existed, it's so far away that we shall never interact with it.

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters.
The possibility of life elsewhere in our galaxy, even intelligent life, is not the probability of anyone on earth having met any. The two are separate propositions requiring different kinds of evidence.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/8/2015 7:11:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/7/2015 11:54:00 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis.

No it doesn't.

The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god.

No, it isn't.

Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.

Belief shouldn't have a point. It's either true or untrue.

Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

I don't think you know what "statistically" means. To have that mean anything you'd have to have some grounds for asserting how many planets should support abiogenesis, and you'd have to know how likely abiogenesis was.

What I meant by statistically is that there are enough planets in the universe that there should be a lot of life.

Evolution does require abiogenesis.
There are only three options for the beginning of life (If you can think of any more let me know). God. Aliens. Abiogenesis.
Aliens
If aliens started life on earth, then where did those aliens come from? more aliens? they had to come from God or abiogenesis at some point.
God
the bible claims that god created life the way it is. He made every species that we have now. Obviously they would have changed over the years, but they are still the same species. Evolution claims that life changed from species to species. The two aren't compatible. Evolution and creationism can't both be true.
So if you are an evolutionist then you have to believe that life started on its own somewhere in the universe. Evolution requires abiogenesis.
kman100
Posts: 24
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4/8/2015 7:16:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 7:11:15 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:54:00 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis.

No it doesn't.

The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god.

No, it isn't.

Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.

Belief shouldn't have a point. It's either true or untrue.

Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

I don't think you know what "statistically" means. To have that mean anything you'd have to have some grounds for asserting how many planets should support abiogenesis, and you'd have to know how likely abiogenesis was.

What I meant by statistically is that there are enough planets in the universe that there should be a lot of life.

Evolution does require abiogenesis.
There are only three options for the beginning of life (If you can think of any more let me know). God. Aliens. Abiogenesis.
Aliens
If aliens started life on earth, then where did those aliens come from? more aliens? they had to come from God or abiogenesis at some point.
God
the bible claims that god created life the way it is. He made every species that we have now. Obviously they would have changed over the years, but they are still the same species. Evolution claims that life changed from species to species. The two aren't compatible. Evolution and creationism can't both be true.
So if you are an evolutionist then you have to believe that life started on its own somewhere in the universe. Evolution requires abiogenesis.

The bible also state tht bats are birds and that gay people should be stoned, which is why many people don't take it literally and believe in theistic evolution
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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4/8/2015 8:17:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 7:11:15 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:54:00 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis.

No it doesn't.

The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god.

No, it isn't.

Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.

Belief shouldn't have a point. It's either true or untrue.

Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

I don't think you know what "statistically" means. To have that mean anything you'd have to have some grounds for asserting how many planets should support abiogenesis, and you'd have to know how likely abiogenesis was.

What I meant by statistically is that there are enough planets in the universe that there should be a lot of life.

Evolution does require abiogenesis.
There are only three options for the beginning of life (If you can think of any more let me know). God. Aliens. Abiogenesis.
Aliens
If aliens started life on earth, then where did those aliens come from? more aliens? they had to come from God or abiogenesis at some point.
God
the bible claims that god created life the way it is. He made every species that we have now. Obviously they would have changed over the years, but they are still the same species. Evolution claims that life changed from species to species. The two aren't compatible. Evolution and creationism can't both be true.
So if you are an evolutionist then you have to believe that life started on its own somewhere in the universe. Evolution requires abiogenesis.

I strongly recommend you learn some more about evolution, and maybe take a break from telling the rest of us (who truly understand it) what we must believe. Evolution is change in allele frequency in a population over time. Even if some god snapped its fingers and made everything exactly like it is now, evolution would still be occurring. No matter how life came about, evolution occurs.

Secondly, you might want to brush up on various religions while you're at it. There are far more proposed gods than just that of the Bible. And even within Judaism and Christianity, there are sects that accept that life probably started as very simple organisms and evolved to what it is now. Some say that their god guided that evolution, but nevertheless they don't automatically subscribe to the literal genesis of the Bible.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/8/2015 9:18:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 8:17:47 PM, Burzmali wrote:
At 4/8/2015 7:11:15 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/7/2015 11:54:00 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 4/7/2015 8:33:21 PM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:36:19 PM, Burzmali wrote:
Evolution is what happens after life already exists. What you're thinking of is abiogenesis. Also, believing that abiogenesis occurred on Earth does not necessarily require the belief that it has happened on other planets. You could believe that it's possible without believing that it has actually happened elsewhere.

But evolution requires abiogenesis.

No it doesn't.

The whole point of evolution is that it provides an answer as to how life exists without god.

No, it isn't.

Whats the point of evolution if you believe there is no abiogenesis.

Belief shouldn't have a point. It's either true or untrue.

Statistically abiogenesis should be common throughout the universe. So how could you justify abiogenesis existing on only one planet in the entire universe?

I don't think you know what "statistically" means. To have that mean anything you'd have to have some grounds for asserting how many planets should support abiogenesis, and you'd have to know how likely abiogenesis was.

What I meant by statistically is that there are enough planets in the universe that there should be a lot of life.

Evolution does require abiogenesis.
There are only three options for the beginning of life (If you can think of any more let me know). God. Aliens. Abiogenesis.
Aliens
If aliens started life on earth, then where did those aliens come from? more aliens? they had to come from God or abiogenesis at some point.
God
the bible claims that god created life the way it is. He made every species that we have now. Obviously they would have changed over the years, but they are still the same species. Evolution claims that life changed from species to species. The two aren't compatible. Evolution and creationism can't both be true.
So if you are an evolutionist then you have to believe that life started on its own somewhere in the universe. Evolution requires abiogenesis.

I strongly recommend you learn some more about evolution, and maybe take a break from telling the rest of us (who truly understand it) what we must believe. Evolution is change in allele frequency in a population over time. Even if some god snapped its fingers and made everything exactly like it is now, evolution would still be occurring. No matter how life came about, evolution occurs.

Secondly, you might want to brush up on various religions while you're at it. There are far more proposed gods than just that of the Bible. And even within Judaism and Christianity, there are sects that accept that life probably started as very simple organisms and evolved to what it is now. Some say that their god guided that evolution, but nevertheless they don't automatically subscribe to the literal genesis of the Bible.

I know. I just wanted to spark controversy and see what people think. The best way to do it is make baseless claims revolving around religion. I think i succeeded.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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4/9/2015 6:15:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Evolution, you don't believe in it, you either understand it or you don't.
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/10/2015 9:07:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:15:27 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Evolution, you don't believe in it, you either understand it or you don't.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of scientists who fully understand it and still don't think its true. Its a theory not a fact so therefore you can believe or disbelieve in it.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/10/2015 1:09:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 9:07:07 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:15:27 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Evolution, you don't believe in it, you either understand it or you don't.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of scientists who fully understand it and still don't think its true. Its a theory not a fact so therefore you can believe or disbelieve in it.

A theory is a collection of facts.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
GDBH
Posts: 66
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4/10/2015 1:15:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Um... I'm not sure what you mean by "evolution" here.
The measure of a good politician these days seems to be his ability to bull$hit.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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4/10/2015 1:19:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 9:07:07 AM, Rubikx wrote:
There are plenty of scientists who fully understand it and still don't think its true.

"An overwhelming majority of the scientific community accepts evolution as the dominant scientific theory of biological diversity. Nearly every scientific society, representing hundreds of thousands of scientists, has issued statements rejecting intelligent design[2] and a petition supporting the teaching of evolutionary biology was endorsed by 72 US Nobel Prize winners"

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Rubikx
Posts: 226
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4/10/2015 3:03:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/10/2015 1:09:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 4/10/2015 9:07:07 AM, Rubikx wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:15:27 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 4/6/2015 10:04:25 PM, Rubikx wrote:
Is it possible to be an evolutionist and yet not believe in aliens? If you believe in evolution that you should believe that earth is just one among many planets capable of supporting life. So there should be life all over the place. So is there anyone who believes evolution is true but not that aliens exist?

As an evolutionist how could you dispute alien encounters. Obviously there are people who fake it, but if you believe in evolution how can you disbelieve people who claim to have seen aliens?

Evolution, you don't believe in it, you either understand it or you don't.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of scientists who fully understand it and still don't think its true. Its a theory not a fact so therefore you can believe or disbelieve in it.

A theory is a collection of facts.

No a theory is a collection of evidence. There is a big difference. A law is collection of facts. Newtons LAWS of motion. the THEORY of evolution. they are not the same thing.