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everything seeks equilibrium

Kahvan
Posts: 1,339
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8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I had a thought, i do not agree with it but i still find it to be very interesting.

My thought is this, everything ultimately seeks equilibrium. The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical. I will give two examples, they obviously have flaws but I hope you look at what I mean by them. The first is when you spill water on a flat surface. The water doesn't just sit in an odd shape but spreads out thinly and evenly. Solids are also doing this (spreading out) just much more slowly.

The second example would be this. Imagine you put 5 people each in a different car and told them to o drive down a single straight stretch of road for eternity. Eventually these 5 people would fall into some sort of pattern. In the beggining they might vie for position and change alot but eventually they would develop a pattern or an organized line of travel.

Discuss.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/10/2010 8:37:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical.

the universe wants something?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/10/2010 9:21:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
I had a thought, i do not agree with it but i still find it to be very interesting.

My thought is this, everything ultimately seeks equilibrium. The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical. I will give two examples, they obviously have flaws but I hope you look at what I mean by them. The first is when you spill water on a flat surface. The water doesn't just sit in an odd shape but spreads out thinly and evenly. Solids are also doing this (spreading out) just much more slowly.

The second example would be this. Imagine you put 5 people each in a different car and told them to o drive down a single straight stretch of road for eternity. Eventually these 5 people would fall into some sort of pattern. In the beggining they might vie for position and change alot but eventually they would develop a pattern or an organized line of travel.

Discuss.

I'd say there seems to be a polarity in most things. The polarity is what seems to create the balance, the pull between negative and positive is where the balance lies.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/10/2010 9:57:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 9:34:14 AM, annhasle wrote:
Hmm.... reminds me of something.... Oh! Taoism! :P

I'd say the difference is in Taoism.... everything is already "balanced".

and cannot be, on a zoomed out perspective, "out of balance".

sure... if you take consider the perspective of a particular guy... he can be rash.. ridiculous... and stuff.. but ultimately there's reasons for the way he is... and the things which lie behind His being that way Mesh Perfectly with everything else.....
bottoming out/balancing in how things SIMPLY ARE.

heres an awesome passage from Zhuangzi:

The penumbra asked the shadow:
"A little while ago you moved, and now you've stopped. A little while ago you sat down, and now you're standing up. How can you act so irrationally?"
The shadow replied:
"Do I have to depend on something else to be the way I am? Does what I depend on also have to depend on something else to be what it is? Is my dependence like a snake's on its scales or a cicada's on its wings? How can I know why I am so? How can I know why I am not otherwise?"

(Note: Penumbra: A space of partial illumination [as in an eclipse] between the perfect shadow on all sides and the full light. The luminous outline around a shadow.)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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8/10/2010 1:25:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
...Solids are also doing this (spreading out) just much more slowly.
That is not correct; only liquids do this. Glass (for example) is a "slow flowing" liquid. Solids do not take the shape of their container like liquids, no matter how long you give them.

The second example would be this. Imagine you put 5 people each in a different car and told them to o drive down a single straight stretch of road for eternity. Eventually these 5 people would fall into some sort of pattern. In the beginning they might vie for position and change alot but eventually they would develop a pattern or an organized line of travel.
Don't understand the point, can you clarify?

As far as finding "patterns," one can do that for anything. Randomness & chaos are relative terms as there are "patterns" to these as well. Then there are those that think that randomness doesn't exist to begin with!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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8/10/2010 1:41:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 8:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical.

the universe wants something?

I think he was using the term abstractly, as in positive "wants" to attract to negative & vice versa.

I agree that the Universe seems to "want" to reach a state equilibrium. This seems to be the direction of things to come: the Omega State. This would be the "struggle" between two different & opposing properties that each "want" equilibrium. Once the properties "cancel out" we will have reached the Omega State: the end of time & the Universe as we know it. A completely full and unchanging singularity that encompasses all.

I will say this: there are some unanswered question. Namely questions about a clearly observable & gross asymmetry in our Universe: that of matter vs antimatter.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Kahvan
Posts: 1,339
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8/10/2010 2:00:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 1:41:46 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 8/10/2010 8:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical.

the universe wants something?

I think he was using the term abstractly, as in positive "wants" to attract to negative & vice versa.

I agree that the Universe seems to "want" to reach a state equilibrium. This seems to be the direction of things to come: the Omega State. This would be the "struggle" between two different & opposing properties that each "want" equilibrium. Once the properties "cancel out" we will have reached the Omega State: the end of time & the Universe as we know it. A completely full and unchanging singularity that encompasses all.

I will say this: there are some unanswered question. Namely questions about a clearly observable & gross asymmetry in our Universe: that of matter vs antimatter.

a much better explanation of the thought I was trying to put across
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 2:08:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 8:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical.

the universe wants something?

Yes.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/10/2010 2:10:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does positive magnetivity attract the negative or vice-versa? No reason for it to be both.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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8/10/2010 2:18:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Maybe it's misleading to say that the universe wants anything, but it is a matter of scientific fact that chaotic structures will always resolve into less chaos.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/10/2010 2:20:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:18:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Maybe it's misleading to say that the universe wants anything, but it is a matter of scientific fact that chaotic structures will always resolve into less chaos.

How do you define chaos?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/10/2010 2:22:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:18:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Maybe it's misleading to say that the universe wants anything, but it is a matter of scientific fact that chaotic structures will always resolve into less chaos.

Ehh, I don't think so... http://en.wikipedia.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/10/2010 2:25:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Universe has a tendency to develop things from simplistic origins and increasingly becomes more complex.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/10/2010 2:49:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:

My thought is this, everything ultimately seeks equilibrium. The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical.

Nope. After the Big Bang, matter was favoured over antimatter.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/10/2010 2:50:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:18:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Maybe it's misleading to say that the universe wants anything, but it is a matter of scientific fact that chaotic structures will always resolve into less chaos.

opposite actually. in a closed system disorder is constantly increasing. whats interesting is that maximum entropy is a sort of equilibrium.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/10/2010 3:21:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:08:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/10/2010 8:37:08 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/10/2010 8:31:43 AM, Kahvan wrote:
The universe is in a constant state of wanting everything to eventually be perfectly balanced and symmetrical.

the universe wants something?

Yes.

lol I thought you were done with the conscious universe bit :)

You just said in another thread that Pantheism= Atheism...

this would be why it doesn't.

Pantheism is like your conscious universe stuff.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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8/11/2010 10:59:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/10/2010 2:50:28 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/10/2010 2:18:43 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Maybe it's misleading to say that the universe wants anything, but it is a matter of scientific fact that chaotic structures will always resolve into less chaos.


opposite actually. in a closed system disorder is constantly increasing. whats interesting is that maximum entropy is a sort of equilibrium.

Yes! That's because there are 2 types of order that are inversely related: if you increase one order the other decreases & vice versa. Max entropy is an equilibrium between the 2 orders.

At 8/10/2010 2:49:31 PM, Puck wrote:
Nope. After the Big Bang, matter was favoured over antimatter.
I agree, as I stated before: "...a clearly observable & gross asymmetry in our Universe: that of matter vs antimatter."
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.