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Science proves...

Zetsubou
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8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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8/11/2010 8:37:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.

Are you talking in a religious sense or in general?
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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8/11/2010 8:41:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sounds like a pretty general assertion. Why do I get the feeling that you'd just simply disregard any valid examples by playing semantics and saying that it doesn't actually count as "science"?
Zetsubou
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8/11/2010 8:42:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's not Semantics. I'll use your definition(given that it is reasonable)

It's a standard common misconception.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
tvellalott
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8/11/2010 8:43:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.

Hmmm..
Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge that is capable of resulting in a correct prediction or reliable outcome.

I can prove that 1 + 1 = 2 using the science of mathematics can I not?
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Zetsubou
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8/11/2010 8:43:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:37:35 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.

Are you talking in a religious sense or in general?

Anything.

I'm not the preaching type.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/11/2010 8:44:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.

science assumes the physical.

IF your talking about Physical things... IF YOU'RE ASSUMING THEM... then science can prove things (to a reasonable degree)... IN FACT that's it's entire purpose.

if you're not assuming those things... then yeah (science which starts after that assumption) can't prove anything to ya.

For example: Science can "prove" I'm my parents child.

not beyond any doubt... but pretty darned sure given the nature of physical reality...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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8/11/2010 8:48:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.

Solipsism is fun!
kfc
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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8/11/2010 8:49:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:43:05 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:17:51 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
...nothing.

Jsut clearing up a misconception that many 'skeptic' types hold.

Science, by definition cannot prove nor disprove. Does anyone challenge me on this? Give examples.

Hmmm..
Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge that is capable of resulting in a correct prediction or reliable outcome.

I can prove that 1 + 1 = 2 using the science of mathematics can I not?

Maths is not a science, so to speak, it uses non existing terms.

"as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

Einstein - The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Koopin
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8/11/2010 8:51:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:49:59 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Your all misunderstanding.

I'm just joking. I get what you are trying to say, Science cannot be proven, therefore how can we prove anything with science.
kfc
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/11/2010 8:52:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

wow... that's an awesome quote!

take that PCP.... Plato...

and all the rest o' ya silly rationalists!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
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8/11/2010 8:53:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:44:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
So you don't believe in objective truths?

The DDO logo is yellow.

Objective truth =/= Science.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/11/2010 8:54:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:53:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:44:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
So you don't believe in objective truths?

The DDO logo is yellow.

Objective truth =/= Science.

But isn't science used to prove objective truths?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Zetsubou
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8/11/2010 8:54:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:52:27 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

wow... that's an awesome quote!

take that PCP.... Plato...

and all the rest o' ya silly rationalists!

Glad to help.

Do you see what I'm getting at btw?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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8/11/2010 8:56:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.

But gravity itself is still a theory and has not been proven.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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8/11/2010 8:57:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.

Read my Easter Bunny debate.
kfc
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/11/2010 8:58:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Eh it's simply how one wants to define proove. Science doesn't deal with absolutes, claims are more better understood in a scale of certainty. Arguing that science can't prove absolutes is a bit of a strawman since the scientific method doesn't postulate it can anyway.

What it can do is provide evidence for any given hypothesis and establish scientific facts which are understood to be facts as per defined under the scientific method. In addition it can quite handily negate assertions by the same method.
mattrodstrom
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8/11/2010 9:00:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:54:37 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:52:27 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

wow... that's an awesome quote!

take that PCP.... Plato...

and all the rest o' ya silly rationalists!

Glad to help.

Do you see what I'm getting at btw?

I assume physical reality.

science doesn't make me do that... but science is how you determine what that supposed physical reality is.

I assume physical reality b/c that assumption is natural and quite apparently allows me to most effectively satisfy my cares.

being an empiricist.... I even think part of the reason I have "constructed" this concept of physical reality is because it's good at getting satisfaction (though, of course, it's also dependant upon my nature/predispositions)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 9:01:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:44:35 PM, annhasle wrote:
So you don't believe in objective truths?

I don't know about him, but you don't.
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Zetsubou
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8/11/2010 9:02:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:56:50 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.

But gravity itself is still a theory and has not been proven.

Newton's Theory of gravity supported by
Einstein's theory of relativity supported by
Newton's laws of motion.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
popculturepooka
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8/11/2010 9:02:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:52:27 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

wow... that's an awesome quote!

take that PCP.... Plato...

and all the rest o' ya silly rationalists!

Yeah, you go ahead and tell mathematicians that. As far as I know most aren't ficitionalists.
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2010 9:03:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:58:08 PM, Puck wrote:
Eh it's simply how one wants to define proove. Science doesn't deal with absolutes, claims are more better understood in a scale of certainty. Arguing that science can't prove absolutes is a bit of a strawman since the scientific method doesn't postulate it can anyway.

What it can do is provide evidence for any given hypothesis and establish scientific facts which are understood to be facts as per defined under the scientific method. In addition it can quite handily negate assertions by the same method.

This.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
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8/11/2010 9:04:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 9:02:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:52:27 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
"as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

wow... that's an awesome quote!

take that PCP.... Plato...

and all the rest o' ya silly rationalists!

Yeah, you go ahead and tell mathematicians that. As far as I know most aren't ficitionalists.

after your nietzsche quote... I now wanna find his quote on math...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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8/11/2010 9:04:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 9:02:27 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:56:50 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.

But gravity itself is still a theory and has not been proven.

Newton's Theory of gravity supported by
Einstein's theory of relativity supported by
Newton's laws of motion.

Sorry no gravity is a law now.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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8/11/2010 9:05:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.

Repeated observations may make it a scientific fact, it doesn't make it an absolute truth, we just rarely bother to distinguish it as such because of the rate of observations where it occurs i.e. it happens enough that talking about it not happening doesn't make much sense until it doesn't happen. We can rate it with a very high degree of certainty that it will indeed occur just as you say.
LaissezFaire
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8/11/2010 9:05:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/11/2010 9:04:17 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/11/2010 9:02:27 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:56:50 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 8/11/2010 8:56:05 PM, MikeLoviN wrote:
gravity, If i drop a ball it will fall with a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s/s until it hits the ground or reaches terminal velocity. Try it.

But gravity itself is still a theory and has not been proven.

Newton's Theory of gravity supported by
Einstein's theory of relativity supported by
Newton's laws of motion.

Sorry no gravity is a law now.

It's both a theory and a law. The law of gravity basically states that gravity exists. The theory of gravity explains what causes it.
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