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Faster than Light?

DanneJeRusse
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6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?
The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.

It's just food for thought.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/26/2015 5:24:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?

The very accurate measurements of the speed of light.

The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Sorry, but the light from the sun is emitted in all directions and travels on geodesics at a constant speed.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

LOL. That's pretty funny.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 5:36:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 5:24:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?

The very accurate measurements of the speed of light.

The light was not moving. The planet and moon were moving.
The so called movement of light across any planet is an illusion.
Something that does not move has no speed.
Only things that move have a speed.

The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Sorry, but the light from the sun is emitted in all directions and travels on geodesics at a constant speed.

The light from the sun is constant and does not turn on and off. Therefore has no speed.
Light is like time which is also constant and only appears to move forward but in reality does not move at all. The illusion is due to planet movement in space.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

LOL. That's pretty funny.

Truth can be hilarious at times. It is even funnier when humans realize how stupid they really are.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/26/2015 5:42:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 5:36:59 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:24:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?

The very accurate measurements of the speed of light.

The light was not moving. The planet and moon were moving.
The so called movement of light across any planet is an illusion.
Something that does not move has no speed.
Only things that move have a speed.


The light from the sun is constant and does not turn on and off. Therefore has no speed.
Light is like time which is also constant and only appears to move forward but in reality does not move at all. The illusion is due to planet movement in space.

Yeah, I think you have no idea what you're talking about. The movements of planets and moons in space is nowhere near the speed of light.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

LOL. That's pretty funny.

Truth can be hilarious at times. It is even funnier when humans realize how stupid they really are.


I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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6/26/2015 6:00:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When you turn on a light in a dark room, that light travels. When you turn the light off, it is once again dark, because the light have traveled away. It isn't always present.

Though light is too fast for us to see it travel, we can measure it's speed. That speed is given a symbol: c.

What is the symbol for the speed of time?
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 5:42:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:36:59 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:24:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?

The very accurate measurements of the speed of light.

The light was not moving. The planet and moon were moving.
The so called movement of light across any planet is an illusion.
Something that does not move has no speed.
Only things that move have a speed.


The light from the sun is constant and does not turn on and off. Therefore has no speed.
Light is like time which is also constant and only appears to move forward but in reality does not move at all. The illusion is due to planet movement in space.

Yeah, I think you have no idea what you're talking about. The movements of planets and moons in space is nowhere near the speed of light.

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.
I am saying, what if it doesn't? What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?
Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.
What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

The illusions are obviously very convincing ones but ultimately Light is always present the same as time is always present. The sun does not turn on and off when it rises and sets. The light never leaves the Earth.
Any measurements of shadows on planets have nothing to do with the speed of light but have a lot to do with the speed of planets and whatever is creating the shadows or black dots which were measured.

Taking old ideas for granted never helped anyone to discover new things. Therefore don't be too quick to ridicule things which appear to be ridiculous because ultimately they might not be as ridiculous as they appear to be.
Question everything, take nothing for granted and throw nothing away. All things are connected in some way. That includes knowledge and ignorance.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 6:19:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 6:00:11 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
When you turn on a light in a dark room, that light travels. When you turn the light off, it is once again dark, because the light have traveled away. It isn't always present.

That is true for artificial light but not necessarily true for the light that comes from the sun since that light is always present and is not a light that turns on and off.
It's all in the perception.

Though light is too fast for us to see it travel, we can measure it's speed. That speed is given a symbol: c.

Giving a concept a symbol just symbolizes a concept.

What is the symbol for the speed of time?

You could use the infinity symbol. That would work. However you could also use a clock. It all depends on what aspect of time you wish to talk about..... The way it appears to move ( the illusion of its movement ) or the fact that it moves no where but is always present in the NOW which is infinite, without beginning or end.

I am simply considering the possibility that Light has the same illusory aspects as Time does and can appear to move while at the same time not moving at all. It all depends on human perception and what specific aspects you wish to study.

Anything is possible so any serious science students ought not throw out possibilities just because their mind is stuck in a rut where they blindly accept some calculation to be absolute truth.
When things like time and light have different aspects, those aspects ought to be taken into consideration in order to understand the whole thing not just one aspect of it.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/26/2015 6:33:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:42:34 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:36:59 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:24:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?

The very accurate measurements of the speed of light.

The light was not moving. The planet and moon were moving.
The so called movement of light across any planet is an illusion.
Something that does not move has no speed.
Only things that move have a speed.


The light from the sun is constant and does not turn on and off. Therefore has no speed.
Light is like time which is also constant and only appears to move forward but in reality does not move at all. The illusion is due to planet movement in space.

Yeah, I think you have no idea what you're talking about. The movements of planets and moons in space is nowhere near the speed of light.

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.

Yes, facts have a tendency to convince.

I am saying, what if it doesn't?

It does.

What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?

Nope.

Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.

If that's what you want to believe.

What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

It's not an illusion.

The illusions are obviously very convincing ones but ultimately Light is always present the same as time is always present. The sun does not turn on and off when it rises and sets. The light never leaves the Earth.

Unless, there is no light shining on the earth, the dark side of it, evidently.

Any measurements of shadows on planets have nothing to do with the speed of light but have a lot to do with the speed of planets and whatever is creating the shadows or black dots which were measured.

LOL. Okee dokee.

Taking old ideas for granted never helped anyone to discover new things. Therefore don't be too quick to ridicule things which appear to be ridiculous because ultimately they might not be as ridiculous as they appear to be.

Definitely, your ideas about light and time are ridiculous.

Question everything, take nothing for granted and throw nothing away. All things are connected in some way. That includes knowledge and ignorance.

You may wish some day to replace the latter with the former.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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6/26/2015 7:26:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 6:19:55 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:11 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
When you turn on a light in a dark room, that light travels. When you turn the light off, it is once again dark, because the light have traveled away. It isn't always present.

That is true for artificial light but not necessarily true for the light that comes from the sun since that light is always present and is not a light that turns on and off.
It's all in the perception.

Science would struggle greatly if it depended on perception for accuracy. Light from the Sun isn't always present per se. If the Sun is still in view while you read this, then the sunlight that is around you when you begin reading this post will be millions of miles away by the time you finish reading this post. If that Sun should suddenly shut off, like a light bulb, and it will at some future time, then the light will no longer be present. So it's just as true for sunlight as it is for artificial light.

Though light is too fast for us to see it travel, we can measure it's speed. That speed is given a symbol: c.

Giving a concept a symbol just symbolizes a concept.

It also shows that the velocity of light is measurable. Not so with time.

What is the symbol for the speed of time?

You could use the infinity symbol. That would work. However you could also use a clock. It all depends on what aspect of time you wish to talk about..... The way it appears to move ( the illusion of its movement ) or the fact that it moves no where but is always present in the NOW which is infinite, without beginning or end.

I am simply considering the possibility that Light has the same illusory aspects as Time does and can appear to move while at the same time not moving at all. It all depends on human perception and what specific aspects you wish to study.

Anything is possible so any serious science students ought not throw out possibilities just because their mind is stuck in a rut where they blindly accept some calculation to be absolute truth.
When things like time and light have different aspects, those aspects ought to be taken into consideration in order to understand the whole thing not just one aspect of it.

Experimenting with ideas is always a good thing. But sorting the facts is important to good experimentation. Infinity would indicate that time does not travel, because infinity has no beginning or end. There is no beginning or end for infinite time, it remains still while all else travels within it. Time is a concept measured by men, or any other intelligence in the universe, according to their astronomical situation. Infinity would not recognize the existence of time since it is unaffected by the passing of events.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 7:27:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 6:33:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.

Yes, facts have a tendency to convince.

It is great to know you are convinced.
However, I am not 100% convinced. Therefore facts only have a tendency to convince those who want to believe them and seem to have no such affect on those who question them.

I am saying, what if it doesn't?

It does.

You obviously believe it because you are convinced it is true.
Have you ever measures it yourself to check or do you simply take it for granted that someone elses calculations were correct?
How often do you just take someones word for something being true without checking it to confirm their claim?

What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?

Nope.

Why do you discount the possibility?

Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.

If that's what you want to believe.

I believe many things are not what they appear to be. I believe "the hand is quicker than the eye" and human perception can cause us to believe illusions.
Einstein wrote "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

What do you believe about time and its illusions?

What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

It's not an illusion.

What makes you so certain ?
Light and human perception can create all kinds of illusions, so why not one that makes Light appear to move when it does not move at all?

Google movement illusions and check the images.

The illusions are obviously very convincing ones but ultimately Light is always present the same as time is always present. The sun does not turn on and off when it rises and sets. The light never leaves the Earth.

Unless, there is no light shining on the earth, the dark side of it, evidently.

The light still does not leave the Earth. The light creates the dark side by creating a shadow. The area of the planet facing the light is always in the light. That area changes as the planet rotates. The light however does not move.
It is the Earths movement which creates changes in the shadows. It is not the movement of light.

Any measurements of shadows on planets have nothing to do with the speed of light but have a lot to do with the speed of planets and whatever is creating the shadows or black dots which were measured.

LOL. Okee dokee.

Taking old ideas for granted never helped anyone to discover new things. Therefore don't be too quick to ridicule things which appear to be ridiculous because ultimately they might not be as ridiculous as they appear to be.

Definitely, your ideas about light and time are ridiculous.

Question everything, take nothing for granted and throw nothing away. All things are connected in some way. That includes knowledge and ignorance.

You may wish some day to replace the latter with the former.

They go hand in hand like opposite sides of a coin. You can't have one without the other.
The wise understand they are fools. It is the fools who believe they are wise.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 8:08:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 7:26:28 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:19:55 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:11 PM, Kyle_the_Heretic wrote:
When you turn on a light in a dark room, that light travels. When you turn the light off, it is once again dark, because the light have traveled away. It isn't always present.

That is true for artificial light but not necessarily true for the light that comes from the sun since that light is always present and is not a light that turns on and off.
It's all in the perception.

Science would struggle greatly if it depended on perception for accuracy. Light from the Sun isn't always present per se. If the Sun is still in view while you read this, then the sunlight that is around you when you begin reading this post will be millions of miles away by the time you finish reading this post. If that Sun should suddenly shut off, like a light bulb, and it will at some future time, then the light will no longer be present. So it's just as true for sunlight as it is for artificial light.

Science relies heavily on human perception and conclusions.
Light from the sun is always present on the side of the planet facing the sun. The light does not move. The planet does and when the planet turns away from the sun, it creates the illusion that the sun is moving around the planet when it is not.
The concept about the sun one day shutting off is nothing but speculation. Feel free to believe it if you wish.
Personally I view that concept as a myth in the same way I view the beginning of the universe as a myth.

Though light is too fast for us to see it travel, we can measure it's speed. That speed is given a symbol: c.

Giving a concept a symbol just symbolizes a concept.

It also shows that the velocity of light is measurable. Not so with time.

Anything is measurable including time if you place imaginary points on something and measure between the points. Creative people obviously found a way to measure time in seconds, hours, days etc. It is this illusion of time and age which causes people to believe time passes and objects have a certain age.

What is the symbol for the speed of time?

You could use the infinity symbol. That would work. However you could also use a clock. It all depends on what aspect of time you wish to talk about..... The way it appears to move ( the illusion of its movement ) or the fact that it moves no where but is always present in the NOW which is infinite, without beginning or end.

I am simply considering the possibility that Light has the same illusory aspects as Time does and can appear to move while at the same time not moving at all. It all depends on human perception and what specific aspects you wish to study.

Anything is possible so any serious science students ought not throw out possibilities just because their mind is stuck in a rut where they blindly accept some calculation to be absolute truth.
When things like time and light have different aspects, those aspects ought to be taken into consideration in order to understand the whole thing not just one aspect of it.

Experimenting with ideas is always a good thing. But sorting the facts is important to good experimentation. Infinity would indicate that time does not travel, because infinity has no beginning or end. There is no beginning or end for infinite time, it remains still while all else travels within it. Time is a concept measured by men, or any other intelligence in the universe, according to their astronomical situation. Infinity would not recognize the existence of time since it is unaffected by the passing of events.

True. Infinity has no beginning or end. All existing things move within infinity. Time as we humans perceive it is relative to Earth and its movements. No such time exists any other place in the universe. Therefore measuring things relative to Earthly measurements is meaningless nonsense when it comes to measuring or trying to determine the ages of anything outside our planet.
When you combine space and time into a single space-time continuum, and understand that time is infinite, it should be easy to understand that space is also infinite. It has no beginning or end.
Therefore any concept of expansion of space- time is as ridiculous as a concept of an expansion of infinity.

When something is here and not here at the same time ( NOW you see it, NOW you don't) Is it staying still or is it moving as the future replaces the past in the infinite present at a speed faster than light?

Are the past and the future merely illusions created by human perception and movement of various objects in the space- time continuum?

Are the things we humans perceive to be moving really moving at all?
https://www.google.com...

Our mind and eyes can play tricks on us and cause us to believe something is moving when it is not moving and can also cause us to believe something is not moving when it really is moving. If it moves too fast or too slow for us to perceive or measure, we would not be able to tell it was moving.
The only movement we humans can observe is the movement in our own perception which can obviously create illusions of movement in our minds.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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6/26/2015 8:27:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 7:27:45 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:33:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.

Yes, facts have a tendency to convince.

It is great to know you are convinced.

Convinced of facts? Who wouldn't be? People who believe in things?

However, I am not 100% convinced. Therefore facts only have a tendency to convince those who want to believe them and seem to have no such affect on those who question them.

I don't think you're informed of the facts, let alone having the capacity to question them.

I am saying, what if it doesn't?

It does.

You obviously believe it because you are convinced it is true.

Again, I don't believe in things.

Have you ever measures it yourself to check or do you simply take it for granted that someone elses calculations were correct?

Of course I have, there are many ways to measure the speed of light. One can do so with a microwave oven.

How often do you just take someones word for something being true without checking it to confirm their claim?

Usually never.

What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?

Nope.

Why do you discount the possibility?

Because it makes no sense and is completely wrong.

Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.

If that's what you want to believe.

I believe many things are not what they appear to be. I believe "the hand is quicker than the eye" and human perception can cause us to believe illusions.

Then, you should try to understand things rather than believing in them, that way you'll get things more right than wrong.

Einstein wrote "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

What do you believe about time and its illusions?

I'm not a believer.


What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

It's not an illusion.

What makes you so certain ?

Facts.

Light and human perception can create all kinds of illusions, so why not one that makes Light appear to move when it does not move at all?

Yeah, light travels, it's been measured accurately.

Google movement illusions and check the images.


The illusions are obviously very convincing ones but ultimately Light is always present the same as time is always present. The sun does not turn on and off when it rises and sets. The light never leaves the Earth.

Unless, there is no light shining on the earth, the dark side of it, evidently.

The light still does not leave the Earth. The light creates the dark side by creating a shadow. The area of the planet facing the light is always in the light. That area changes as the planet rotates. The light however does not move.
It is the Earths movement which creates changes in the shadows. It is not the movement of light.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Any measurements of shadows on planets have nothing to do with the speed of light but have a lot to do with the speed of planets and whatever is creating the shadows or black dots which were measured.

LOL. Okee dokee.


Taking old ideas for granted never helped anyone to discover new things. Therefore don't be too quick to ridicule things which appear to be ridiculous because ultimately they might not be as ridiculous as they appear to be.

Definitely, your ideas about light and time are ridiculous.

Question everything, take nothing for granted and throw nothing away. All things are connected in some way. That includes knowledge and ignorance.

You may wish some day to replace the latter with the former.

They go hand in hand like opposite sides of a coin. You can't have one without the other.
The wise understand they are fools. It is the fools who believe they are wise.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
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6/26/2015 8:42:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 1:42:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
NOW you see it.
NOW you don't.

Indeed.

These things all travel faster than light. Or in the case of the 1st Example---DID travel faster at one time!

1. The Big Bang itself expanded much faster than the speed of light. But this only means that "nothing can go faster than light." Since nothing is just empty space or vacuum, it can expand faster than light speed since no material object is breaking the light barrier. Therefore, empty space can certainly expand faster than light.

2. If you wave a flashlight across the night sky, then, in principle, its image can travel faster than light speed (since the beam of light is going from one part of the Universe to another part on the opposite side, which is, in principle, many light years away). The problem here is that no material object is actually moving faster than light. (Imagine that you are surrounded by a giant sphere one light year across.

The image from the light beam will eventually hit the sphere one year later. This image that hits the sphere then races across the entire sphere within a matter of seconds, although the sphere is one light year across.) Just the image of the beam as it races across the night sky is moving faster than light, but there is no message, no net information, no material object that actually moves along this image.

3. Quantum entanglement moves faster than light. If I have two electrons close together, they can vibrate in unison, according to the quantum theory. If I then separate them, an invisible umbilical cord emerges which connects the two electrons, even though they may be separated by many light years. If I jiggle one electron, the other electron "senses" this vibration instantly, faster than the speed of light. Einstein thought that this therefore disproved the quantum theory, since nothing can go faster than light.

But actually this experiment (the EPR experiment) has been done many times, and each time Einstein was wrong. Information does go faster than light, but Einstein has the last laugh. This is because the information that breaks the light barrier is random, and hence useless. (For example, let's say a friend always wears one red sock and one green sock. You don't know which leg wears which sock. If you suddenly see that one foot has a red sock, then you know instantly, faster than the speed of light, that the other sock is green.

But this information is useless. You cannot send Morse code or usable information via red and green socks.)
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
DanneJeRusse
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6/26/2015 8:52:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 8:42:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:42:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
NOW you see it.
NOW you don't.

Indeed.

These things all travel faster than light. Or in the case of the 1st Example---DID travel faster at one time!

1. The Big Bang itself expanded much faster than the speed of light. But this only means that "nothing can go faster than light." Since nothing is just empty space or vacuum, it can expand faster than light speed since no material object is breaking the light barrier. Therefore, empty space can certainly expand faster than light.

2. If you wave a flashlight across the night sky, then, in principle, its image can travel faster than light speed (since the beam of light is going from one part of the Universe to another part on the opposite side, which is, in principle, many light years away). The problem here is that no material object is actually moving faster than light. (Imagine that you are surrounded by a giant sphere one light year across.

The image from the light beam will eventually hit the sphere one year later. This image that hits the sphere then races across the entire sphere within a matter of seconds, although the sphere is one light year across.) Just the image of the beam as it races across the night sky is moving faster than light, but there is no message, no net information, no material object that actually moves along this image.

3. Quantum entanglement moves faster than light. If I have two electrons close together, they can vibrate in unison, according to the quantum theory. If I then separate them, an invisible umbilical cord emerges which connects the two electrons, even though they may be separated by many light years. If I jiggle one electron, the other electron "senses" this vibration instantly, faster than the speed of light. Einstein thought that this therefore disproved the quantum theory, since nothing can go faster than light.

But actually this experiment (the EPR experiment) has been done many times, and each time Einstein was wrong. Information does go faster than light, but Einstein has the last laugh. This is because the information that breaks the light barrier is random, and hence useless. (For example, let's say a friend always wears one red sock and one green sock. You don't know which leg wears which sock. If you suddenly see that one foot has a red sock, then you know instantly, faster than the speed of light, that the other sock is green.

But this information is useless. You cannot send Morse code or usable information via red and green socks.)

Don't forget the Kaku source where you lifted that from, genius.

http://bigthink.com...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
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6/26/2015 8:56:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 8:52:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:42:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:42:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
NOW you see it.
NOW you don't.

Indeed.

These things all travel faster than light. Or in the case of the 1st Example---DID travel faster at one time!

1. The Big Bang itself expanded much faster than the speed of light. But this only means that "nothing can go faster than light." Since nothing is just empty space or vacuum, it can expand faster than light speed since no material object is breaking the light barrier. Therefore, empty space can certainly expand faster than light.

2. If you wave a flashlight across the night sky, then, in principle, its image can travel faster than light speed (since the beam of light is going from one part of the Universe to another part on the opposite side, which is, in principle, many light years away). The problem here is that no material object is actually moving faster than light. (Imagine that you are surrounded by a giant sphere one light year across.

The image from the light beam will eventually hit the sphere one year later. This image that hits the sphere then races across the entire sphere within a matter of seconds, although the sphere is one light year across.) Just the image of the beam as it races across the night sky is moving faster than light, but there is no message, no net information, no material object that actually moves along this image.

3. Quantum entanglement moves faster than light. If I have two electrons close together, they can vibrate in unison, according to the quantum theory. If I then separate them, an invisible umbilical cord emerges which connects the two electrons, even though they may be separated by many light years. If I jiggle one electron, the other electron "senses" this vibration instantly, faster than the speed of light. Einstein thought that this therefore disproved the quantum theory, since nothing can go faster than light.

But actually this experiment (the EPR experiment) has been done many times, and each time Einstein was wrong. Information does go faster than light, but Einstein has the last laugh. This is because the information that breaks the light barrier is random, and hence useless. (For example, let's say a friend always wears one red sock and one green sock. You don't know which leg wears which sock. If you suddenly see that one foot has a red sock, then you know instantly, faster than the speed of light, that the other sock is green.

But this information is useless. You cannot send Morse code or usable information via red and green socks.)

Don't forget the Kaku source where you lifted that from, genius.

http://bigthink.com...

Actually it was bigthink.com, dipsh1t.

And here is another link on something that travels SO MUCH faster than light than even Ol' Albert though it was spooky!

http://www.livescience.com...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Ramshutu
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6/26/2015 8:58:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?
The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.

It's just food for thought.

You can beam a laser at the moon, and it takes a certain amount of time to come back.

It takes a certain amount of time to communicate with space probes and get a response.

You can measure the speed of light with lasers, interferometers, and various other things, and all indicate it has a speed.

You can even take a super high speed camera (1,000,000,000 FPS) and take pictures of pules of light moving! https://www.youtube.com...

Please, enlighten me; how can you can explain these measurements if light does not have a speed?
Saint_of_Me
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6/26/2015 9:30:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And yet another example of how we are pretty sure we might have (LOL) found something that supersedes light speed.

Seems the good folks at NASA might have stumbled upon it while experimenting with something called an "EmDrive Resonance Chamber" which was an idea for inter-stellar travel propulsion technology.

Here's the article...................

http://www.techtimes.com...

How many links is that? (Hey JeRusse: am I getting better at posting pertinent links? LOL)
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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6/26/2015 9:33:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 8:27:47 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 7:27:45 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:33:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.

Yes, facts have a tendency to convince.

It is great to know you are convinced.

Convinced of facts? Who wouldn't be? People who believe in things?

People who believe in what they perceive to be facts are obviously convinced by their own perceptions of facts being facts as opposed to believing the so called "facts" are actually illusions of facts.
Eg the fact that all people can clearly observe the sun moving across the sky does not make it a fact that the sun moves across the sky.
Appearances of facts can obviously be deceiving.

However, I am not 100% convinced. Therefore facts only have a tendency to convince those who want to believe them and seem to have no such affect on those who question them.

I don't think you're informed of the facts, let alone having the capacity to question them.

Thank you for your uninformed opinion. It is interesting and amusing.

I am saying, what if it doesn't?

It does.

You obviously believe it because you are convinced it is true.

Again, I don't believe in things.

"Things?"
All people believe in some things. You are deceiving yourself if you think you don't. One thing you obviously believe is your own mind,which includes your own judgments and your own perceptions.

Have you ever measures it yourself to check or do you simply take it for granted that someone elses calculations were correct?

Of course I have, there are many ways to measure the speed of light. One can do so with a microwave oven.

That is measuring electromagnetic waves created by an artificial source once you turn on the electricity.
Measuring spacing between hot spots is not measuring the speed of anything. It is a measurement of distance between two points.

How often do you just take someones word for something being true without checking it to confirm their claim?

Usually never.

How about your own conclusions about your own observations? How often do you question those before you do stupid things like writing "I don't believe in things". <<< Do you believe that thing ? If you believe your own statements you do believe in things since your statements are "things".

What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?

Nope.

Why do you discount the possibility?

Because it makes no sense and is completely wrong.

Just because something makes no sense to a person does not mean it is completely wrong. It just means you do not understand it or cannot make sense of it.

Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.

If that's what you want to believe.

I believe many things are not what they appear to be. I believe "the hand is quicker than the eye" and human perception can cause us to believe illusions.

Then, you should try to understand things rather than believing in them, that way you'll get things more right than wrong.

I do understand things. That is how and why I understand you do believe in things even if you do not understand that you believe in things like your own statements.
When you understand that you might get more things right than wrong and stop deluding yourself into believing you don't believe things.

Einstein wrote "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

What do you believe about time and its illusions?

I'm not a believer.

Not a believer in what? Time? Age? Past, present and future?

What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

It's not an illusion.

What makes you so certain ?

Facts.

Not all facts are what they appear to be.

Light and human perception can create all kinds of illusions, so why not one that makes Light appear to move when it does not move at all?

Yeah, light travels, it's been measured accurately.

Human measurements are all relative to human perception and human invented measuring devices. All measurements are a creation of human imagination and invention which results from human perception and Earthly perspectives.
Saint_of_Me
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6/26/2015 9:50:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 9:33:06 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:27:47 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 7:27:45 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:33:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.

Yes, facts have a tendency to convince.

It is great to know you are convinced.

Convinced of facts? Who wouldn't be? People who believe in things?

People who believe in what they perceive to be facts are obviously convinced by their own perceptions of facts being facts as opposed to believing the so called "facts" are actually illusions of facts.
Eg the fact that all people can clearly observe the sun moving across the sky does not make it a fact that the sun moves across the sky.
Appearances of facts can obviously be deceiving.


However, I am not 100% convinced. Therefore facts only have a tendency to convince those who want to believe them and seem to have no such affect on those who question them.

I don't think you're informed of the facts, let alone having the capacity to question them.

Thank you for your uninformed opinion. It is interesting and amusing.

I am saying, what if it doesn't?

It does.

You obviously believe it because you are convinced it is true.

Again, I don't believe in things.

"Things?"
All people believe in some things. You are deceiving yourself if you think you don't. One thing you obviously believe is your own mind,which includes your own judgments and your own perceptions.

Have you ever measures it yourself to check or do you simply take it for granted that someone elses calculations were correct?

Of course I have, there are many ways to measure the speed of light. One can do so with a microwave oven.

That is measuring electromagnetic waves created by an artificial source once you turn on the electricity.
Measuring spacing between hot spots is not measuring the speed of anything. It is a measurement of distance between two points.

How often do you just take someones word for something being true without checking it to confirm their claim?

Usually never.

How about your own conclusions about your own observations? How often do you question those before you do stupid things like writing "I don't believe in things". <<< Do you believe that thing ? If you believe your own statements you do believe in things since your statements are "things".


What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?

Nope.

Why do you discount the possibility?

Because it makes no sense and is completely wrong.

Just because something makes no sense to a person does not mean it is completely wrong. It just means you do not understand it or cannot make sense of it.

Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.

If that's what you want to believe.

I believe many things are not what they appear to be. I believe "the hand is quicker than the eye" and human perception can cause us to believe illusions.

Then, you should try to understand things rather than believing in them, that way you'll get things more right than wrong.

I do understand things. That is how and why I understand you do believe in things even if you do not understand that you believe in things like your own statements.
When you understand that you might get more things right than wrong and stop deluding yourself into believing you don't believe things.

Einstein wrote "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

What do you believe about time and its illusions?

I'm not a believer.

Not a believer in what? Time? Age? Past, present and future?


What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

It's not an illusion.

What makes you so certain ?

Facts.

Not all facts are what they appear to be.

Light and human perception can create all kinds of illusions, so why not one that makes Light appear to move when it does not move at all?

Yeah, light travels, it's been measured accurately.

Human measurements are all relative to human perception and human invented measuring devices. All measurements are a creation of human imagination and invention which results from human perception and Earthly perspectives.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe that this final statement is undeniable.

Do not get me wrong: at the end of the day I consider myself to be a science guy at heart. A skeptic on most things. But I also like to believe that I still maintain enough of an open mind to realize that science is not the end all and be all of all attempts to unravel the remaining mysteries that intrigue Mankind.

I also think that in the near future it is very likely that some ideas and hypotheses out there that hardline science guys today have relegated to the arena of the "paranormal" or the "metaphysical"--or even the "mystical" will be shown (Ironically, by these same folks) to have merit. Or to be true. Proven.

First and foremost among these currently lambasted ideas is that one that is called "Morphic Resonance" by my favorite Biologist, one Dr. Rupert Sheldrake.

Good closing to your post, Angel!
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
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6/26/2015 10:07:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 8:42:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:42:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
NOW you see it.
NOW you don't.

Indeed.

These things all travel faster than light. Or in the case of the 1st Example---DID travel faster at one time!

1. The Big Bang itself expanded much faster than the speed of light. But this only means that "nothing can go faster than light." Since nothing is just empty space or vacuum, it can expand faster than light speed since no material object is breaking the light barrier. Therefore, empty space can certainly expand faster than light.

Personally I am skeptical about any "big bang" phenomenon ever happening. However I know all people will believe what they convince themselves is true.
I am just one of the few who chooses to not believe the big bang theory or any stories about the universe having a beginning. To me space and time is infinite and has no beginning or end. Therefore, in my mind, any beginning of space and time in a big bang phenomenon is illogical. My mind convinces me it is.
Empty space cannot expand due to having no boundaries. Any expansion of something without boundaries is due to human imagination. It is a deception created by human perception.

2. If you wave a flashlight across the night sky, then, in principle, its image can travel faster than light speed (since the beam of light is going from one part of the Universe to another part on the opposite side, which is, in principle, many light years away). The problem here is that no material object is actually moving faster than light. (Imagine that you are surrounded by a giant sphere one light year across.

The image from the light beam will eventually hit the sphere one year later. This image that hits the sphere then races across the entire sphere within a matter of seconds, although the sphere is one light year across.) Just the image of the beam as it races across the night sky is moving faster than light, but there is no message, no net information, no material object that actually moves along this image.

That makes the light "image" an illusion, does it not?
A bit like a TV image is merely a record of something that was recorded in the past and if the "waves" of that recording are still hanging around in the "air" any TV can tune in to the channel and see the picture on the screen. The waves exist at all times but the amount of time it takes to tune in to the channel can vary depending on the speed of the receiver.

3. Quantum entanglement moves faster than light. If I have two electrons close together, they can vibrate in unison, according to the quantum theory. If I then separate them, an invisible umbilical cord emerges which connects the two electrons, even though they may be separated by many light years. If I jiggle one electron, the other electron "senses" this vibration instantly, faster than the speed of light. Einstein thought that this therefore disproved the quantum theory, since nothing can go faster than light.

All waves or vibrations are connected and affect each other eventually. Nothing can move without affecting something else which affects something else in an infinite ripple effect.

But actually this experiment (the EPR experiment) has been done many times, and each time Einstein was wrong. Information does go faster than light, but Einstein has the last laugh. This is because the information that breaks the light barrier is random, and hence useless. (For example, let's say a friend always wears one red sock and one green sock. You don't know which leg wears which sock. If you suddenly see that one foot has a red sock, then you know instantly, faster than the speed of light, that the other sock is green.

Only if your mind believes the other sock must be green as soon as you see the red one. What if the other sock is purple or yellow and your mind is so accustomed to seeing green that its preconceived belief causes you to see green instead of yellow or purple? Belief can work like that and cause people to see things which are not there or not see things which are there.

But this information is useless. You cannot send Morse code or usable information via red and green socks.)

Random information is actually not useless at all. It teaches us that not all things follow a distinct pattern. Random and non random aspects of life also teach us that some things can violate laws and some things cannot. They teach us that opposites exist and not all thing can be placed in tidy boxes and filed away. They keep us alert and on our toes so we do not take things for granted. We learn it is wiser to question than take anything for granted.
Skyangel
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6/26/2015 10:20:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 8:58:17 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?
The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.

It's just food for thought.

You can beam a laser at the moon, and it takes a certain amount of time to come back.

It takes a certain amount of time to communicate with space probes and get a response.

You can measure the speed of light with lasers, interferometers, and various other things, and all indicate it has a speed.

You can even take a super high speed camera (1,000,000,000 FPS) and take pictures of pules of light moving! https://www.youtube.com...

Please, enlighten me; how can you can explain these measurements if light does not have a speed?

The same way as people measure and "interpret" or perceive the passing of time as fast or slow even though time has no speed or movement.
It is all a matter of human perception and invention and depends on what you are comparing. All human measurements are relative to something.

Speed is "X" compared to what? That might be fast compared to one thing and slow compared to something else.
Age is the same thing. It is relative to something else. The age of "X" might be new compared to one thing and old compared to something else. It all depends on what you compare it against.
Ramshutu
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6/26/2015 10:46:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 10:20:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:58:17 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?
The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.

It's just food for thought.

You can beam a laser at the moon, and it takes a certain amount of time to come back.

It takes a certain amount of time to communicate with space probes and get a response.

You can measure the speed of light with lasers, interferometers, and various other things, and all indicate it has a speed.

You can even take a super high speed camera (1,000,000,000 FPS) and take pictures of pules of light moving! https://www.youtube.com...

Please, enlighten me; how can you can explain these measurements if light does not have a speed?

The same way as people measure and "interpret" or perceive the passing of time as fast or slow even though time has no speed or movement.
It is all a matter of human perception and invention and depends on what you are comparing. All human measurements are relative to something.

Speed is "X" compared to what? That might be fast compared to one thing and slow compared to something else.
Age is the same thing. It is relative to something else. The age of "X" might be new compared to one thing and old compared to something else. It all depends on what you compare it against.

So a video in which you can see light traveling at a definite speed is just "interpretation?"

I didn't ask you why those measurements may not show light has a speed, I asked what the specific, alternative explanation there is of the innumerable observations that life has speed and you replied with a fluffy, indeterminate non answer.
Skyangel
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6/26/2015 11:10:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 10:46:31 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 6/26/2015 10:20:02 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:58:17 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 6/26/2015 5:15:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 11:15:49 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 12:29:27 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Time.

Time does not have a velocity nor can accelerate.

Exactly. What makes people think Light does?
The Light from the sun is always present in the same place at the same time just like time is always present and only appears to "Go faster" or "slow down" depending on how busy or bored a person might be.

Looking into the history of the speed of light, and how it was calculated, it seems to me it is more about the movement of planets and moons and the speed of orbits. It does not seem to be about the speed of light at all. It was not the light which was moving in the calculations. It was the planet and moon that was moving.

I suspect light, referring to natural sunlight, is more like time and has no speed at all but is always present. It might be different when referring to artificial light which can be turned on and off but if the light goes on as soon as it connects to the power, the light is still instantaneous. The time it takes for humans to see the light would be the time it takes for the brain to process the information and not the time it takes for light to travel anywhere.

If you close your eyes and cannot see light, the light has not gone, the light does not travel away from your eyes or toward your eyes. Your eyes are the things that are moving and your brain needs time to process the movement. Therefore the speed is all about the thing that is actually moving not about the thing that is not moving at all.

It is just something I was thinking about since I tend to question things a lot.

It seems to me that much of science is simply taken for granted and not questioned once people take old calculations and conclusions for granted.

It's just food for thought.

You can beam a laser at the moon, and it takes a certain amount of time to come back.

It takes a certain amount of time to communicate with space probes and get a response.

You can measure the speed of light with lasers, interferometers, and various other things, and all indicate it has a speed.

You can even take a super high speed camera (1,000,000,000 FPS) and take pictures of pules of light moving! https://www.youtube.com...

Please, enlighten me; how can you can explain these measurements if light does not have a speed?

The same way as people measure and "interpret" or perceive the passing of time as fast or slow even though time has no speed or movement.
It is all a matter of human perception and invention and depends on what you are comparing. All human measurements are relative to something.

Speed is "X" compared to what? That might be fast compared to one thing and slow compared to something else.
Age is the same thing. It is relative to something else. The age of "X" might be new compared to one thing and old compared to something else. It all depends on what you compare it against.

So a video in which you can see light traveling at a definite speed is just "interpretation?"

Actually videos are a series of still pictures which flash before our eyes at a very rapid rate. This is what causes the illusion of movement because the human mind seems incapable of discerning the pictures separately. The only way you can see them one by one is to slow down the speed at which you play the movie or take a look at the old movie reels where each picture is separate. If you watch the movie at a slower speed or faster speed have you slowed down or sped up the speed of light?
It is just an illusion.

I didn't ask you why those measurements may not show light has a speed, I asked what the specific, alternative explanation there is of the innumerable observations that life has speed and you replied with a fluffy, indeterminate non answer.

I gave you my answer. If you cannot understand it, it is not my fault.
There are plenty of explanations for the movements and illusions of movements in this world.
The sad thing is so many people seem incapable of discerning what is real and what is an illusion, especially when the illusion appears to be so real.

How do you explain the movement in these pictures which do not move at all ??? >>>>>
https://www.google.com...
DanneJeRusse
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6/26/2015 11:32:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 8:56:02 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:52:40 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:42:08 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/26/2015 1:42:32 AM, Skyangel wrote:
NOW you see it.
NOW you don't.

Indeed.

These things all travel faster than light. Or in the case of the 1st Example---DID travel faster at one time!

1. The Big Bang itself expanded much faster than the speed of light. But this only means that "nothing can go faster than light." Since nothing is just empty space or vacuum, it can expand faster than light speed since no material object is breaking the light barrier. Therefore, empty space can certainly expand faster than light.

2. If you wave a flashlight across the night sky, then, in principle, its image can travel faster than light speed (since the beam of light is going from one part of the Universe to another part on the opposite side, which is, in principle, many light years away). The problem here is that no material object is actually moving faster than light. (Imagine that you are surrounded by a giant sphere one light year across.

The image from the light beam will eventually hit the sphere one year later. This image that hits the sphere then races across the entire sphere within a matter of seconds, although the sphere is one light year across.) Just the image of the beam as it races across the night sky is moving faster than light, but there is no message, no net information, no material object that actually moves along this image.

3. Quantum entanglement moves faster than light. If I have two electrons close together, they can vibrate in unison, according to the quantum theory. If I then separate them, an invisible umbilical cord emerges which connects the two electrons, even though they may be separated by many light years. If I jiggle one electron, the other electron "senses" this vibration instantly, faster than the speed of light. Einstein thought that this therefore disproved the quantum theory, since nothing can go faster than light.

But actually this experiment (the EPR experiment) has been done many times, and each time Einstein was wrong. Information does go faster than light, but Einstein has the last laugh. This is because the information that breaks the light barrier is random, and hence useless. (For example, let's say a friend always wears one red sock and one green sock. You don't know which leg wears which sock. If you suddenly see that one foot has a red sock, then you know instantly, faster than the speed of light, that the other sock is green.

But this information is useless. You cannot send Morse code or usable information via red and green socks.)

Don't forget the Kaku source where you lifted that from, genius.

http://bigthink.com...


Actually it was bigthink.com, dipsh1t.

And here is another link on something that travels SO MUCH faster than light than even Ol' Albert though it was spooky!

http://www.livescience.com...

Yet another link to a pop-sci website. *yawn* Yet, more stuff you don't understand?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
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6/26/2015 11:38:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 9:30:04 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
And yet another example of how we are pretty sure we might have (LOL) found something that supersedes light speed.

Seems the good folks at NASA might have stumbled upon it while experimenting with something called an "EmDrive Resonance Chamber" which was an idea for inter-stellar travel propulsion technology.

Here's the article...................

http://www.techtimes.com...

How many links is that? (Hey JeRusse: am I getting better at posting pertinent links? LOL)

So what? I know you don't understand any of it. You love pretending.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
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6/26/2015 11:50:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 9:33:06 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 8:27:47 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 7:27:45 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:33:07 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 6:00:57 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Your replies indicate that your mind is convinced that light has a speed.

Yes, facts have a tendency to convince.

It is great to know you are convinced.

Convinced of facts? Who wouldn't be? People who believe in things?

People who believe in what they perceive to be facts are obviously convinced by their own perceptions of facts being facts as opposed to believing the so called "facts" are actually illusions of facts.

LOL. Nice word salad.

Eg the fact that all people can clearly observe the sun moving across the sky does not make it a fact that the sun moves across the sky.
Appearances of facts can obviously be deceiving.

And yet, it was facts that showed us the earth was rotating.


However, I am not 100% convinced. Therefore facts only have a tendency to convince those who want to believe them and seem to have no such affect on those who question them.

I don't think you're informed of the facts, let alone having the capacity to question them.

Thank you for your uninformed opinion. It is interesting and amusing.

I am saying, what if it doesn't?

It does.

You obviously believe it because you are convinced it is true.

Again, I don't believe in things.

"Things?"
All people believe in some things. You are deceiving yourself if you think you don't. One thing you obviously believe is your own mind,which includes your own judgments and your own perceptions.

Yes, I know you believers operate on belief systems, that's the problem, understanding is not part of your world.

Have you ever measures it yourself to check or do you simply take it for granted that someone elses calculations were correct?

Of course I have, there are many ways to measure the speed of light. One can do so with a microwave oven.

That is measuring electromagnetic waves created by an artificial source once you turn on the electricity.
Measuring spacing between hot spots is not measuring the speed of anything. It is a measurement of distance between two points.

How often do you just take someones word for something being true without checking it to confirm their claim?

Usually never.

How about your own conclusions about your own observations? How often do you question those before you do stupid things like writing "I don't believe in things". <<< Do you believe that thing ? If you believe your own statements you do believe in things since your statements are "things".


What if the so called speed of light is an illusion created by the movements of various things in space?

Nope.

Why do you discount the possibility?

Because it makes no sense and is completely wrong.

Just because something makes no sense to a person does not mean it is completely wrong. It just means you do not understand it or cannot make sense of it.

LOL, You are the one who doesn't understand.

Time also appears to exist and move forward but as you said time has no velocity and does not move. Any movement of time is therefore an illusion.

If that's what you want to believe.

I believe many things are not what they appear to be. I believe "the hand is quicker than the eye" and human perception can cause us to believe illusions.

Then, you should try to understand things rather than believing in them, that way you'll get things more right than wrong.

I do understand things. That is how and why I understand you do believe in things even if you do not understand that you believe in things like your own statements.
When you understand that you might get more things right than wrong and stop deluding yourself into believing you don't believe things.

Einstein wrote "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

What do you believe about time and its illusions?

I'm not a believer.

Not a believer in what? Time? Age? Past, present and future?


What if the speed of light is also just an illusion?

It's not an illusion.

What makes you so certain ?

Facts.

Not all facts are what they appear to be.

Light and human perception can create all kinds of illusions, so why not one that makes Light appear to move when it does not move at all?

Yeah, light travels, it's been measured accurately.

Human measurements are all relative to human perception and human invented measuring devices. All measurements are a creation of human imagination and invention which results from human perception and Earthly perspectives.

More irrelevant word salads. Don't leave high school, that is if you've made it that far yet.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skyangel
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6/26/2015 11:57:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/26/2015 11:50:52 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/26/2015 9:33:06 PM, Skyangel wrote:

People who believe in what they perceive to be facts are obviously convinced by their own perceptions of facts being facts as opposed to believing the so called "facts" are actually illusions of facts.

LOL. Nice word salad.

Eg the fact that all people can clearly observe the sun moving across the sky does not make it a fact that the sun moves across the sky.
Appearances of facts can obviously be deceiving.

And yet, it was facts that showed us the earth was rotating.


Again, I don't believe in things.

"Things?"
All people believe in some things. You are deceiving yourself if you think you don't. One thing you obviously believe is your own mind,which includes your own judgments and your own perceptions.

Yes, I know you believers operate on belief systems, that's the problem, understanding is not part of your world.


Why do you discount the possibility?

Because it makes no sense and is completely wrong.

Just because something makes no sense to a person does not mean it is completely wrong. It just means you do not understand it or cannot make sense of it.

LOL, You are the one who doesn't understand.


Then, you should try to understand things rather than believing in them, that way you'll get things more right than wrong.

I do understand things. That is how and why I understand you do believe in things even if you do not understand that you believe in things like your own statements.
When you understand that you might get more things right than wrong and stop deluding yourself into believing you don't believe things.

Facts.

Not all facts are what they appear to be.

Human measurements are all relative to human perception and human invented measuring devices. All measurements are a creation of human imagination and invention which results from human perception and Earthly perspectives.

More irrelevant word salads. Don't leave high school, that is if you've made it that far yet.

Grow up little one.
You will never get far in life by insisting on being the pot which calls the kettle black.

I am nothing but a reflection of you.