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Timelessness.

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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7/7/2015 4:14:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Life is Timeless when you don't try and measure "IT".

I find it interesting how there are those that will try and measure things that in reality can't be accurately measured with out a starting and ending point.

So they MAKE UP starting and ending points within a very SMALL area, like the distance between the ears of the smartest person on the planet.

Then we have others that want to make their own unique measurements so they just make up some measuring concept that is cubits or metric or maybe super special scientific measurements. Like the fart-o-meter.

I find it sadly amusing how the space cadets around here can't figure out the MATHS without using man made measuring devices and concepts.

the invisible God measuring devices and concepts sure prove that they are of as much substance and reality as a invisible measuring device can be.

some will claim the their invisible measuring device is there FAITH and conviction.

I must agree that I can see a pattern of invisible measurements around here along with the scientific made up theories and such.

There are those of the MANY and there are those of the FEW

yes, there are also those that are the many few of the many.

that seems to be the most popular measurement as it's a unmarked sliding ruler where you just use your faith and belief and the lines just magically appear for you and any others that can have that sort of faith and belief.

it sure is a timeless world filled with those that are more interested in trying to measure a illusion then they are in measuring their wit.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/7/2015 4:19:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?

Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

Debate?
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Sosoconfused
Posts: 237
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7/7/2015 10:31:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?

My definition of time: A measure of intervals between events
The scientific definition (of a second: the international standard of measuring time): One second is the time that elapses during 9,192,631,770 (9.192631770 x 10 9 ) cycles of the radiation produced by the transition between two levels of the cesium 133 atom
the other scientific definition would be: 1sec = 1Hz

as for Einstein, I don't know. I am not aware of a unified theory of gravity that would tell us one way or another.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/7/2015 11:40:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 4:14:30 PM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
Life is Timeless when you don't try and measure "IT".

All things are timeless when you don't assign a time to them.
Time is a human assignment the same as length, height, width, weight, mass, etc.
However, humans obviously do very creative things with their own inventions and measurements.

I find it interesting how there are those that will try and measure things that in reality can't be accurately measured with out a starting and ending point.

It is like trying to measure the wind from its beginning to end points.

So they MAKE UP starting and ending points within a very SMALL area, like the distance between the ears of the smartest person on the planet.

That would depend on how BIG their head was. ;-)
The distance between the ears and the person is ZERO unless they cut off their ears to spite their face.

Then we have others that want to make their own unique measurements so they just make up some measuring concept that is cubits or metric or maybe super special scientific measurements. Like the fart-o-meter.

Like this one?
http://www.ebay.com.au...
Free postage to anyone who wishes to measure how much gas emissions they create on Earth. ;-)

I find it sadly amusing how the space cadets around here can't figure out the MATHS without using man made measuring devices and concepts.

They have never been taught how. They are taught to think like machines connected to the BORG.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...

the invisible God measuring devices and concepts sure prove that they are of as much substance and reality as a invisible measuring device can be.

some will claim the their invisible measuring device is there FAITH and conviction.

I must agree that I can see a pattern of invisible measurements around here along with the scientific made up theories and such.

There are those of the MANY and there are those of the FEW

yes, there are also those that are the many few of the many.

that seems to be the most popular measurement as it's a unmarked sliding ruler where you just use your faith and belief and the lines just magically appear for you and any others that can have that sort of faith and belief.

it sure is a timeless world filled with those that are more interested in trying to measure a illusion then they are in measuring their wit.

Presumption seems to be the measurement most use on the forums when they are measuring the intelligence of others.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/7/2015 11:51:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 4:19:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?


Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

Debate?

What do you want to debate Drew?

I prefer discussions to debates because debates are designed for disagreement rather than being a process to come to an agreement and understanding of opposite view points.

You defined time as the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

I like that definition. The word indefinite implies it has no definite fixed beginning or end into the past or the future.

Do you believe Space/Time had a beginning? If so, why do you believe it?
I gather many people believe space/time is the beginning of space and time and also the beginning of the universe.
How can that be true if time is an indefinite continued progress of existence into the past as well as the future?

Something indefinite does not have a defined beginning.
kp98
Posts: 729
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7/8/2015 12:01:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'll offer two definitions of time
1) time is what you measure with a clock
2) time is what stops everything happening at once.

1) is intended seriously!
TIme is, well time. It isn't made of anyting else. We have a perception of time which is familiar to each of us but not so easy to put into words. We pereceve that there is 'the past, present and future' and time transforms the future into the present and then into the past. I am not sure if our intution that the past has gone and the future is yet to be is given to us 'ab initio' or if it something we learn from experience, but we have that intuition because it is an aspect of the universe we live in - There is such a thing as the past and such a thing as the future and the latter becomes the former. Of course as with all our intuitions about the world what we get 'for free' is an approximation to the real state of affairs. Our intuition about time is good enough to get us through the day, to locate food and a mate and even propagate the species but its not good enough to build an effective GPS system because time isn't quite as we intuit to be. Time can behave very unintuitively in places evolution hasn't prepared us for - such as being close to a spinning black hole. In such cases we have abandon relying on our intuition and use some sort of 'techincal definition'. The best one I know for time is 'time is what is measured by a clock'. That is a good definiton because it works when our is intuition is applicable and also when it doesn't.

Perhaps if you lived for a few years in the vicinity of a black hole the weirdness of time in such as place would become familar and you'd develop an intution about it, but that is hardly likely to happen. Instead we'll have to rely on the idea that 'time is what is measured by clock', and accept any weird facts that shows up with good grace.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/8/2015 6:33:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 12:01:29 AM, kp98 wrote:
I'll offer two definitions of time
1) time is what you measure with a clock

But what exactly are you measuring?
You use a ruler to measure the length or height of an object or the distance between two objects.
You use a clock or stop watch to measure speed of movement of an object across a certain distance.
Height, length, movement, speed are all aspects of observable objects.

What observable aspect of any object are you measuring when you measure time?

2) time is what stops everything happening at once.

1) is intended seriously!
TIme is, well time. It isn't made of anyting else. We have a perception of time which is familiar to each of us but not so easy to put into words. We pereceve that there is 'the past, present and future' and time transforms the future into the present and then into the past. I am not sure if our intution that the past has gone and the future is yet to be is given to us 'ab initio' or if it something we learn from experience, but we have that intuition because it is an aspect of the universe we live in - There is such a thing as the past and such a thing as the future and the latter becomes the former. Of course as with all our intuitions about the world what we get 'for free' is an approximation to the real state of affairs. Our intuition about time is good enough to get us through the day, to locate food and a mate and even propagate the species but its not good enough to build an effective GPS system because time isn't quite as we intuit to be. Time can behave very unintuitively in places evolution hasn't prepared us for - such as being close to a spinning black hole. In such cases we have abandon relying on our intuition and use some sort of 'techincal definition'. The best one I know for time is 'time is what is measured by a clock'. That is a good definiton because it works when our is intuition is applicable and also when it doesn't.

Perhaps if you lived for a few years in the vicinity of a black hole the weirdness of time in such as place would become familar and you'd develop an intution about it, but that is hardly likely to happen. Instead we'll have to rely on the idea that 'time is what is measured by clock', and accept any weird facts that shows up with good grace.

Some say Time is money.

Some seem to have more of it than others.

What do they actually have that seems to be more or less than others have?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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7/8/2015 10:04:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?

So you actually ever read the links you put up? Do you not understand they often refute YOU, that they show YOU to be wrong? Foolish woman.

" In fact, when we explore time as a direction through many 3D spaces, we find qualities of curvature, time dilation, and spatial contraction, precisely as relativity describes those qualities within our own spacetime."
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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7/8/2015 10:06:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 6:33:52 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/8/2015 12:01:29 AM, kp98 wrote:
I'll offer two definitions of time
1) time is what you measure with a clock

But what exactly are you measuring?
You use a ruler to measure the length or height of an object or the distance between two objects.
You use a clock or stop watch to measure speed of movement of an object across a certain distance.
Height, length, movement, speed are all aspects of observable objects.

What observable aspect of any object are you measuring when you measure time?

If you had any brains, you would find out time is measured by the decay of cesium. But, you don't even read the articles you link that show you to be wrong.

2) time is what stops everything happening at once.

1) is intended seriously!
TIme is, well time. It isn't made of anyting else. We have a perception of time which is familiar to each of us but not so easy to put into words. We pereceve that there is 'the past, present and future' and time transforms the future into the present and then into the past. I am not sure if our intution that the past has gone and the future is yet to be is given to us 'ab initio' or if it something we learn from experience, but we have that intuition because it is an aspect of the universe we live in - There is such a thing as the past and such a thing as the future and the latter becomes the former. Of course as with all our intuitions about the world what we get 'for free' is an approximation to the real state of affairs. Our intuition about time is good enough to get us through the day, to locate food and a mate and even propagate the species but its not good enough to build an effective GPS system because time isn't quite as we intuit to be. Time can behave very unintuitively in places evolution hasn't prepared us for - such as being close to a spinning black hole. In such cases we have abandon relying on our intuition and use some sort of 'techincal definition'. The best one I know for time is 'time is what is measured by a clock'. That is a good definiton because it works when our is intuition is applicable and also when it doesn't.

Perhaps if you lived for a few years in the vicinity of a black hole the weirdness of time in such as place would become familar and you'd develop an intution about it, but that is hardly likely to happen. Instead we'll have to rely on the idea that 'time is what is measured by clock', and accept any weird facts that shows up with good grace.

Some say Time is money.

Some seem to have more of it than others.

Gibberish.

What do they actually have that seems to be more or less than others have?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/8/2015 3:21:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 11:51:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/7/2015 4:19:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?


Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

Debate?

What do you want to debate Drew?

I prefer discussions to debates because debates are designed for disagreement rather than being a process to come to an agreement and understanding of opposite view points.


You defined time as the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

I like that definition. The word indefinite implies it has no definite fixed beginning or end into the past or the future.

Do you believe Space/Time had a beginning? If so, why do you believe it?
I gather many people believe space/time is the beginning of space and time and also the beginning of the universe.
How can that be true if time is an indefinite continued progress of existence into the past as well as the future?

Something indefinite does not have a defined beginning.

I was going to offer a debate for my above definition of Time. I would be "pro" of course.

But after reading your last post--the one where you responded to my "three-legged horse" metaphor, I have changed my mind. So...never mind. (that post I did in response in that thread will explain why).
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/9/2015 5:33:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 3:21:00 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/7/2015 11:51:19 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/7/2015 4:19:51 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?


Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

Debate?

What do you want to debate Drew?

I prefer discussions to debates because debates are designed for disagreement rather than being a process to come to an agreement and understanding of opposite view points.


You defined time as the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

I like that definition. The word indefinite implies it has no definite fixed beginning or end into the past or the future.

Do you believe Space/Time had a beginning? If so, why do you believe it?
I gather many people believe space/time is the beginning of space and time and also the beginning of the universe.
How can that be true if time is an indefinite continued progress of existence into the past as well as the future?

Something indefinite does not have a defined beginning.

I was going to offer a debate for my above definition of Time. I would be "pro" of course.

I can't debate it due to the fact that I agree with the definition. I think its a very good one. I doubt anyone could debate it but you could try creating the debate. I would be curious to see if anyone disagreed with your definition.

But after reading your last post--the one where you responded to my "three-legged horse" metaphor, I have changed my mind. So...never mind. (that post I did in response in that thread will explain why).

How often do you change your mind about things Drew?
Three legged horses exist. ;-)
http://s287.photobucket.com...
http://cdn.instructables.com...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/9/2015 6:19:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 10:04:11 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?

So you actually ever read the links you put up? Do you not understand they often refute YOU, that they show YOU to be wrong? Foolish woman.

" In fact, when we explore time as a direction through many 3D spaces, we find qualities of curvature, time dilation, and spatial contraction, precisely as relativity describes those qualities within our own spacetime."

Yes I read the links. Do you ?

I find it interesting to read about the paradox of life which seems to refute itself but really doesn't when you can see the whole picture.

Like Einstein, I believe in an undivided solid reality with no true division between past and future.
I agree with Einstein that time is relative.

Regarding travel at the speed of light causing time to cease completely and causing the traveller to become trapped in timelessness. That makes sense to me because the speed of light is relative to the measurement of time itself. Therefore logically, if you have no time you cannot calculate speed of any movement because the speed would be "X" distance per zero time which would equal zero speed.
or
"X" distance per infinite time which would be indeterminable since you would not be able to measure time without a beginning or end and you cannot multiply by infinity.

All you would end up measuring would be distance not time or speed of anything at all across the distance since without a measurement of time, speed cannot be calculated.
Therefore Feynman"s description of time simply as a direction in space is absolutely correct.

The measurement of time as a measure of movement of an object across a distance is so ingrained into human thinking that "the clock" seems to run peoples lives.

That temporal mentality is so ingrained into people that it blinds them from seeing anything from an infinite point of view. They are too accustomed to thinking in finite ways where all things in their minds including time itself have a finite beginning and end.
It appears that not even "highly recognized physicists since Einstein" are able "to change that temporal mentality ingrained in the mainstream of physics and society."
DanneJeRusse
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7/9/2015 6:55:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 6:19:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/8/2015 10:04:11 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 7/5/2015 9:41:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
What is your definition of time?
What is a scientific definition of time?
Is time an Illusion like Einstein suggested? "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

http://everythingforever.com...

Do the past, present and future exist simultaneously?

So you actually ever read the links you put up? Do you not understand they often refute YOU, that they show YOU to be wrong? Foolish woman.

" In fact, when we explore time as a direction through many 3D spaces, we find qualities of curvature, time dilation, and spatial contraction, precisely as relativity describes those qualities within our own spacetime."

Yes I read the links. Do you ?

Duh, that's how I knew those links refuted you. It's hilarious that you would post them when they showed YOU were wrong.

I find it interesting to read about the paradox of life which seems to refute itself but really doesn't when you can see the whole picture.

Gibberish.

Like Einstein, I believe in an undivided solid reality with no true division between past and future.
I agree with Einstein that time is relative.

Please don't insult Einstein, thanks. You and he are clearly parsecs apart.

Regarding travel at the speed of light causing time to cease completely and causing the traveller to become trapped in timelessness. That makes sense to me because the speed of light is relative to the measurement of time itself. Therefore logically, if you have no time you cannot calculate speed of any movement because the speed would be "X" distance per zero time which would equal zero speed.

But, you said light doesn't travel, hence it can't have a speed. Contradict much?

or
"X" distance per infinite time which would be indeterminable since you would not be able to measure time without a beginning or end and you cannot multiply by infinity.

Gibberish.

All you would end up measuring would be distance not time or speed of anything at all across the distance since without a measurement of time, speed cannot be calculated.

Yes, the speed of light HAS been measured many times to a very accurate degree.

Therefore Feynman"s description of time simply as a direction in space is absolutely correct.

I doubt you understand a thing Feyman says.

The measurement of time as a measure of movement of an object across a distance is so ingrained into human thinking that "the clock" seems to run peoples lives.

And, insanity and delusion runs yours.

That temporal mentality is so ingrained into people that it blinds them from seeing anything from an infinite point of view. They are too accustomed to thinking in finite ways where all things in their minds including time itself have a finite beginning and end.
It appears that not even "highly recognized physicists since Einstein" are able "to change that temporal mentality ingrained in the mainstream of physics and society."

More nonsensical gibberish. Take your meds.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/9/2015 9:36:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 6:55:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

More nonsensical gibberish. Take your meds.

Try reading more carefully and you might gain some understanding and comprehension skills one day.